PFF Grades - Week 5

[Corso]

PFF means nothing to me.
They don't have enough info to make a true grade that's truly representative of real life.

 

[Creeper]

OFFENSE
Zack Martin - 82.6 (72 snaps)
Jalen Tolbert - 72.4 (68 snaps) - huge confidence builder for him despite losing the ability to father more kids.....
KaVontae Turpin - 68.5 (22 snaps)
Dak Prescott - 67.5 (76 snaps)
Rico Dowdle - 67.3 (38 snaps) - 91.2 receiving grade
Terence Steele - 66.1 (76 snaps) - 55.2 pass blocking grade
Brevyn Spann-Ford - 65.1 (15 snaps)
Tyler Smith - 64.9 (76 snaps) - 54.2 pass blocking grade
Jake Ferguson - 64.2 (57 snaps)
Cooper Beebe - 62.9 (76 snaps) - 41.0 pass blocking grade - not great
Ezekiel Elliott - 60.8 (23 snaps) - 37.9 pass blocking grade - woof
Jalen Brooks - 60.1 (37 snaps)
Hunter Luepke - 59.6 (23 snaps)
CeeDee Lamb - 59.6 (66 snaps)
Luke Schoonmaker - 47.0 (20 snaps)
Tyler Guyton - 40.3 (23 snaps) - 36.5 pass blocking grade - the struggle was real. Hope he gets healthy soon.
TJ Bass - 31.3 (53 snaps) - 11.0 pass blocking grade - no typo - worst grade I have seen for this many snaps in a game

DEFENSE
Linval Joseph - 89.8 (22 snaps) - I may have been hasty in asking for his release - 95.8 pass rush grade
Jourdan Lewis - 85.5 (34 snaps) - 87.2 coverage grade - leader of this rag tag crew on D
Chauncey Golston - 77.1 (52 snaps)
Marist Liufau - 72.8 (24 snaps) - 29.3 tackling grade
Malik Hooker - 66.7 (58 snaps) - 80.7 tackling grade - much more active against the run, needed to make that interception
Donovan Wilson - 66.2 (55 snaps) - 45.6 tackling grade
Tyrus Wheat - 65.7 (35 snaps) - solid effort from the youngster, the roughing call was total BS
Trevon Diggs - 62.3 (58 snaps) - 74.6 tackling grade - who knew?
Osa Odighizuwa - 58.3 (42 snaps) - 43.7 run defense grade
Eric Kendricks - 57.0 (58 snaps)
DeMarvion Overshown - 53.2 (58 snaps) - 47.9 tackling grade
Carl Lawson - 52.2 (30 snaps)
Amari Oruwariye - 52.0 (58 snaps) - 44.7 tacking grade
Carlos Watkins - 45.5 (16 snaps)
Mazi Smith - 32.1 (28 snaps) - from first to last

Every time I see these grades after rewatching the games I have the same thoughts. How did they come up with these scores?

Linval Joseph had that one play where he bullrushed the offensive lineman into the QB but other than that he was pretty much absent from most plays.

TJ Bass was ok. He missed a few assignments here and there but I would expect that coming into the game cold like that. He also had to face OFF's top DT in the league., Cam Heyward.

In the meantime, Mazi had 3 solo tackles and 1 assist, Joseph has 2 tackles. Yet their grades almost 60 points different. Mazi did not play that badly. But I admit he struggles getting off of blocks even when he holds his blocker up. If he gets that he will make some big plays.

I don't care what grade they give Overshown. He makes plays all of the field.

 

[jterrell]

PFF means nothing to me.
They don't have enough info to make a true grade that's truly representative of real life.

then ignore threads nicely labeled PFF.

 

[thunderpimp91]

PFF means nothing to me.
They don't have enough info to make a true grade that's truly representative of real life.

OK but then who does have enough info to form an opinion on a player? Are you holding back your thoughts because you dont have enough info?

 

[Corso]

OK but then who does have enough info to form an opinion on a player? Are you holding back your thoughts because you dont have enough info?

Nah. I'm just stupid.

 

[thunderpimp91]

Nah. I'm just stupid.

I respect that answer

 

[thunderpimp91]

Every time I see these grades after rewatching the games I have the same thoughts. How did they come up with these scores?

Linval Joseph had that one play where he bullrushed the offensive lineman into the QB but other than that he was pretty much absent from most plays.

TJ Bass was ok. He missed a few assignments here and there but I would expect that coming into the game cold like that. He also had to face OFF's top DT in the league., Cam Heyward.

In the meantime, Mazi had 3 solo tackles and 1 assist, Joseph has 2 tackles. Yet their grades almost 60 points different. Mazi did not play that badly. But I admit he struggles getting off of blocks even when he holds his blocker up. If he gets that he will make some big plays.

I don't care what grade they give Overshown. He makes plays all of the field.

Linval Joseph didn't have a very high snap count. A player with 20ish snaps can greatly benefit by having a couple great plays and not making mistakes the rest of the way with PFFs grading system. This is sort of Mazi's issue just in reverse...Just a few minus plays without really having any impact plays to offset them can make for a really bad PFF grade if you have limited snaps. 1Ts PFF grades are typically pretty low just because of the rarity that they end up with a +2 grade on their scale.

Bass was bad....a pass grade of 11 seems a little harsh, but the guy completely whiffed and/or missed his assignment multiple times. 9:54 in the 3rd quarter is a perfect example. Got embarrassed on a spin move at 5:40 in the 3rd quarter....by a 1T. Add in a penalty on top and it was just too many negative plays to give him a good grade, although I do think he wasnt quite as bad as the PFF grade makes him out to be.

Watching the game live I would have agreed with you on Overshown, I thought he had a really strong game. After watching it back today he really didn't. I love having Overshown on the field, hes just such a threat to make a play at any time, but the guy continues to be a bit of a liability on those inside runs. He is doing a better job of taking on those blocks and using his hands, but he simply seems overmatched and undersized at times. He looked lost rushing the passer, and had one of his worst games of the year in coverage...although a bad game in coverage for him is still pretty decent. I think by the end of the year we are talking about Overshown in a similar matter to how we talk about Parsons. Gotta get him on the field, you can do so much with him, but what's the best position for him?

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

OK but then who does have enough info to form an opinion on a player? Are you holding back your thoughts because you dont have enough info?

This is kind of the whole point. Just because you don't have anything better, doesn't make what what you have any good.

Astrology around the time of the Egyptians comes to mind. They did not have any better way of predicting calamity amirite?

No one knows what PFF grade really means. AT best they think of it in terms of school grades - because of how it was is marketed- when it is clearly not that in reality.

 

[Hawkeye0202]

Good thread OP

 

[gtb1943]

Mazi was way better than this PFF score is saying. While he did nothing sexy, he ate space and made it possible for others to do their jobs. PFF isn't a good litmus test. I saw a guy who struggled at times, but at other times did his job. Hes still growing as an NFL player.

PFF player game grades I spit on
way too many examples over the years where they were BS

 

[gtb1943]

then ignore threads nicely labeled PFF.

anyone that believes them knows nothing about football

 

[thunderpimp91]

This is kind of the whole point. Just because you don't have anything better, doesn't make what what you have any good.

Astrology around the time of the Egyptians comes to mind. They did not have any better way of predicting calamity amirite?

No one knows what PFF grade really means. AT best they think of it in terms of school grades - because of how it was is marketed- when it is clearly not that in reality.

Just because something is flawed doesn't make it useless either. PFF doesn't know every play, and they certainly push grades out quick, but they also put a lot more time into them than the casual or even committed fan does. If the grades are even 80% accurate they are worth something in telling a players story. As long as the grading system is consistent it's a reasonable tool to compare a player to others at the same position, even if the occasional outlier exists.

Anyone who is actually interested should know what PFF grades mean. They are pretty transparent about their process with just a few 'trade secrets' they dont reveal.

 

[thunderpimp91]

anyone that believes them knows nothing about football

So of the grades posted for the Cowboys how many do you think they got wrong?

 

[cmoney23]

Can you post the Steelers grades too? Just curious.

They're on the Steelers forum....

 

[gtb1943]

Just because something is flawed doesn't make it useless either. PFF doesn't know every play, and they certainly push grades out quick, but they also put a lot more time into them than the casual or even committed fan does. If the grades are even 80% accurate they are worth something in telling a players story. As long as the grading system is consistent it's a reasonable tool to compare a player to others at the same position, even if the occasional outlier exists.

Anyone who is actually interested should know what PFF grades mean. They are pretty transparent about their process with just a few 'trade secrets' they dont reveal.

actually yes if it is badly flawed it is useless
IT was a game where we best the Giants
Romo had a very good game; two tds and no ints
He had a higher rating, higher YPA, higher completion percentage than ELIT did
And Eli only had one td and one pick
And PFF said his score was higher than Romo's
From that point on I have never wanted anything to do with their ratings

 

[plasticman]

OFFENSE
Zack Martin - 82.6 (72 snaps)
Jalen Tolbert - 72.4 (68 snaps) - huge confidence builder for him despite losing the ability to father more kids.....
KaVontae Turpin - 68.5 (22 snaps)
Dak Prescott - 67.5 (76 snaps)
Rico Dowdle - 67.3 (38 snaps) - 91.2 receiving grade
Terence Steele - 66.1 (76 snaps) - 55.2 pass blocking grade
Brevyn Spann-Ford - 65.1 (15 snaps)
Tyler Smith - 64.9 (76 snaps) - 54.2 pass blocking grade
Jake Ferguson - 64.2 (57 snaps)
Cooper Beebe - 62.9 (76 snaps) - 41.0 pass blocking grade - not great
Ezekiel Elliott - 60.8 (23 snaps) - 37.9 pass blocking grade - woof
Jalen Brooks - 60.1 (37 snaps)
Hunter Luepke - 59.6 (23 snaps)
CeeDee Lamb - 59.6 (66 snaps)
Luke Schoonmaker - 47.0 (20 snaps)
Tyler Guyton - 40.3 (23 snaps) - 36.5 pass blocking grade - the struggle was real. Hope he gets healthy soon.
TJ Bass - 31.3 (53 snaps) - 11.0 pass blocking grade - no typo - worst grade I have seen for this many snaps in a game

DEFENSE
Linval Joseph - 89.8 (22 snaps) - I may have been hasty in asking for his release - 95.8 pass rush grade
Jourdan Lewis - 85.5 (34 snaps) - 87.2 coverage grade - leader of this rag tag crew on D
Chauncey Golston - 77.1 (52 snaps)
Marist Liufau - 72.8 (24 snaps) - 29.3 tackling grade
Malik Hooker - 66.7 (58 snaps) - 80.7 tackling grade - much more active against the run, needed to make that interception
Donovan Wilson - 66.2 (55 snaps) - 45.6 tackling grade
Tyrus Wheat - 65.7 (35 snaps) - solid effort from the youngster, the roughing call was total BS
Trevon Diggs - 62.3 (58 snaps) - 74.6 tackling grade - who knew?
Osa Odighizuwa - 58.3 (42 snaps) - 43.7 run defense grade
Eric Kendricks - 57.0 (58 snaps)
DeMarvion Overshown - 53.2 (58 snaps) - 47.9 tackling grade
Carl Lawson - 52.2 (30 snaps)
Amari Oruwariye - 52.0 (58 snaps) - 44.7 tacking grade
Carlos Watkins - 45.5 (16 snaps)
Mazi Smith - 32.1 (28 snaps) - from first to last

No.

As far as I'm concerned, these grades confirm my belief that their method of grading is deeply flawed to the degree of being worthless.

The Steelers averaged 3.5 yards carry. The Cowboys defense held them to 17 points. Despite that these "evaluators" would have me believe that not a single interior D-lineman or LB graded above average?

In 28 snaps, Mazi Smith had four tackles, three of them solo and one of them for a loss. Mazi, Osa and the others at DT clogged up the lanes and allowed Overshown and Kendricks to make all the tackles.

All those big defensive players won this game for the Cowboys.

 

[John813]

They're on the Steelers forum....

Yea but that requires going to a steelers forum

 

[BleedSilverandBlue]

btw, can we stop calling Tolbert a bust finally? That draft class is starting to look better and better as we go. Mazi is on the uptick, Tolbert, same thing, Overshown is what we thought and getting better. Schoonmaker needs more opportunity. Last, my GAWD..Linval Jospeh is looking like he found the fountain of youth. Guy wrecked the steelers interior all night. What a HUGE signing he was. He is surpassing what I thought he would give us. He is a DAWG.

Joseph looked like he came out of a Time Machine from 2018. If he can even be close to that for the rest of the season, we will be in much better shape on the defensive line.

He was probably in pretty bad conditioning when we signed him late in camp. He might just now be rounding into form.

 

[thunderpimp91]

actually yes if it is badly flawed it is useless
IT was a game where we best the Giants
Romo had a very good game; two tds and no ints
He had a higher rating, higher YPA, higher completion percentage than ELIT did
And Eli only had one td and one pick
And PFF said his score was higher than Romo's
From that point on I have never wanted anything to do with their ratings

Well there is only 1 game where Romo threw for 2TDs and 0INTs against the Giants (12/14/2008) and PFF gave him a rating of 78 that day compared to Eli's 54.7.

I'm all for calling out issues with PFFs scoring, and there are some legitimate ones, but I get the sense you might be misremembering the main reason you hate them.

 

[thunderpimp91]

btw, can we stop calling Tolbert a bust finally?

Hes certainly out of bust territory in my book. I still have some concerns about just how high his ceiling is, but Ill be open minded after that game last night. He seems to just continue to improve.