Twitter: PFF: Most forced missed tackles

AbeBeta

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Zeke has lost a step, is less explosive, but is still a very good runner. The offense does need him.

He is a threat out of the backfield catching the ball. He is a pretty good player.

He also taps out way too much. If that were Zeke who separated his shoulder against the Giants, he would have been in the hospital while the rest of the game was being played.

Stop with the taps out nonsense.

He tapped out twice last year and his replacement had a bad play.

In those 2 instances, that was the only snap he didn't play in the entire game.

Zeke played 85% of the team's snaps with the vast majority of his time on the bench being game 1 and several blow outs where we let Pollard finish the game.

Facts matter.
 

DFWJC

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Outside of CMC and Barkley, I don't think there is an RB I'd take over Chubb. Maybe Kamara.
He's great, and that's how you draft a running back.

Nick Chubb 35th pick (draft cost = 550 pts)
Derrick Henry...45th pick (450 pts)
Cris Carson...249th pick (1 pt)

Zeke is great and I'm a fan, but his draft cost was enormous......1800 points
You can buy a LOT with that.

Oh well...old news
 

QuincyCarterEra

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He's great, and that's how you draft a running back.

Nick Chubb 35th pick (draft cost = 550 pts)
Derrick Henry...45th pick (450 pts)
Cris Carson...249th pick (1 pt)

Zeke is great and I'm a fan, but his draft cost was enormous......1800 points
You can buy a LOT with that.

Oh well...old news

I wouldn't use anything more than a 4th rounder on a RB in today's economy.

It is what it is.
 

John813

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He's had those targets because he's been on the field. Nothing more, nothing less.

If you think Zeke only had 4 drops, then that's on you.


No it's not like that comparison at all, it's comparing him to AVERAGE RBs. Not the elite of the elite. He was bottom 25% of ALL RBs.


No, it's on foxsports, who tabulated the data. Besides, it's a grey area on how drops are calculated. Michael Gallup according to one source had 6 drops. 11 on foxsports and 13 per rotoworld iirc.

I think we are going after two different points. My point is isn't a below average pass catcher. What he does after the ball is in his hands I'm not arguing. But he does have value out there as a pass catcher in that when he's thrown the ball he doesn't have brick hands. He definitely had some brainfart drops this year, along with Gallup-Coop-Cobb-and even Witten. The entire team was plagued this year by drops. But outside of this year, he had been sure handed, and as a safety valve, that holds value.

There are running backs out there with bad hands. They sort of been phased out in recent years.
 

QuincyCarterEra

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No, it's on foxsports, who tabulated the data. Besides, it's a grey area on how drops are calculated. Michael Gallup according to one source had 6 drops. 11 on foxsports and 13 per rotoworld iirc.

I think we are going after two different points. My point is isn't a below average pass catcher. What he does after the ball is in his hands I'm not arguing. But he does have value out there as a pass catcher in that when he's thrown the ball he doesn't have brick hands. He definitely had some brainfart drops this year, along with Gallup-Coop-Cobb-and even Witten. The entire team was plagued this year by drops. But outside of this year, he had been sure handed, and as a safety valve, that holds value.

There are running backs out there with bad hands. They sort of been phased out in recent years.

Ohhhh you're changing it from receiver to strictly the ball hitting his hands and naming it pass catcher got it. Well yeah, he's a below average pass catcher too for sure.
 

John813

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He's the safety valve receiver by default, because he's the RB on the field. That by itself doesn't mean he's good at it.

Let me turn around your question: "Why would he do so little with all those targets if he was an above average pass catcher?" And no, Dak isn't dumb. When you need to dump it off to your safety valve, that's what you do. It's better than taking a sack or throwing it away, even if your safety valve doesn't do much with it.

It's the exact opposite of what you claim. We look at Zeke's performance as a receiver and say, meh, he's not been very good compared to all the other RBs. We look at Witten's performance and say, wow, he was very good compared to all the other TEs.

It's possible there's a stud receiver hiding inside Zeke that's been stifled by the playcalling. But until I see it actually show up in performance, I don't believe it. Which is okay. He doesn't need to be a very good receiver to be valuable. I just don't get why so many people are so invested in him being one despite all evidence.

Dak part was in satire.
It really depends. Advanced stats show one thing, game tape shows another. Safety valve isn't usually a big play receiver. Like you posted, it's the last option, usually close to the LOS. They are schemed to be wide open. Usually out in the flat or in the middle of the field, where depending on the coverage run, there's a defender there in close proximity.

Witten like Zeke(rushing the ball) is a volume player. He racked up stats by getting force fed the ball at times. Never had great TD totals or YPC. And from 2010 on, he slowed down quite a bit.
But my point was recently Witten was not an explosive TE after the catch. He knew where to be, but usually turned and fell or rarely got RAC.

I don't care to over inflate Zeke's value. I'm of the opinion that you can get a good back in day 2.
But, as someone who has received a lot of targets recently, he has been good at actually catching said targets. Why Garrett hasn't schemed more more in the passing game, who knows. Gone were the screens from 2016. Maybe they knew he was running the ball a lot and didn't want to have him as the primary receiver on passing plays moving forward. If Zeke led the league every year in drops, over various sources, I would agree he was a below average pass catcher. But he has shown here and there he can be used more as a safety valve. And as the safety valve, he has done a good job at catching the ball.
 

John813

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Not many would assume that's what you're talking about because it is a stupid point lol.

I'll link this again


Your post stated: Pass catcher: Below Average

I mean c'mon.

If you said he is below average at YAC, I would of agreed.

And then I showed you he didn't lead the league in drops for running backs, not even close.
So are the backs that surpassed him in drops terrible pass catchers too?
 

jterrell

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Chubb is massively overrated. lol. Shocker.
Fans base everything off the last 5 minutes.
He is a good RB to be sure but his numbers were actually worse in year 2 with more carries.
He averaged less yards per carry 5.2 to 5.0.
He fumbled more with more carries 0 to 3.
He had the exact same number of carries over 20 yards and 40 yards as he did on 100 less carries as a rookie.

He is a powerful back that may have a couple more good seasons in him before he is worn down and done.

Derrick Henry was special last year. Def better than Zeke.
That makes all of 1 year that has occurred.

What Zeke has is a very good 4 year body of work.
He has to maximize his career longevity now by proper diet and avoiding contact and yes learning how to be a better weapon in the passing game.

Chubb would gladly right now take Zeke's years 3 and 4 minus the suspension.

Zeke's still averaging the most yards per game rushing of anyone entering the league since he did.
Zeke is not as important as Dak to be sure and why he is going to pad half of what Dak makes but he is a very good football player any team would love to have including the Panthers with CMC.
 

QuincyCarterEra

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Your post stated: Pass catcher: Below Average

I mean c'mon.

If you said he is below average at YAC, I would of agreed.

And then I showed you he didn't lead the league in drops for running backs, not even close.
So are the backs that surpassed him in drops terrible pass catchers too?
My post stated:
As a rusher
As a pass blocker
As a pass catcher

You thinking that meant just the second the ball hit his hands and not his overall receiving ability shows a lack of reading comprehension. I mean come on, you really thought that meant the moment of catching the ball?

I provided you with six clear drops on the video. He was three away from leading the league from what you showed. You don't think that's bad? Dropping passes at a high clip makes you bad at catching passes. So yeah those thay drop it a higher % of time are also bad. But those guys also are much better before the catch point and after tha catch point, so better receivers.
 

Runwildboys

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Below average was being nice.
List of things Zeke finished in the bottom 25% of RBs with 25+ catches:

Yards per route run
Receiving yards per snap
Explosive play %
Missed tackles forced per reception

He was at the top of the list in drops though!

Outside of that, he was awesome lol.
I always felt like most of time Zeke was passed to, it was as a relief valve, rather than a play specifically designed for him. I could be wrong, but if not, maybe that's why his stats aren't quite as favorable as we'd like.
 

QuincyCarterEra

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I always felt like most of time Zeke was passed to, it was as a relief valve, rather than a play specifically designed for him. I could be wrong, but if not, maybe that's why his stats aren't quite as favorable as we'd like.
That might be right. Derrick Henry is used in a very similiar fashion, but is just more effective at it.

I wonder if both are used that way because of their poor route running, or just bad coaching? Seems like Kellen is pretty dang good at scheming around his players strengths.
 

QuincyCarterEra

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I always felt like most of time Zeke was passed to, it was as a relief valve, rather than a play specifically designed for him. I could be wrong, but if not, maybe that's why his stats aren't quite as favorable as we'd like.
One thing I will say is that should actually help his yards per route run, since he really doesn't run a route unless he is to be used as that relief valve. Or am I thinking incorrectly?

Sorry for double posting.
 

G2

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So just so we are clear, 975 yards rushing with 10 rushing TDs and 282 yards receiving with 2 receiving TDs isn't solid?
That ONE year, sure. He was solid. But I'll say it one more time - not consistently. Elliott put up those numbers in 2017 minus 6 games.
 
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