Twitter: PFF: Most forced missed tackles

[JD_KaPow]

Dak part was in satire.
It really depends. Advanced stats show one thing, game tape shows another. Safety valve isn't usually a big play receiver. Like you posted, it's the last option, usually close to the LOS. They are schemed to be wide open. Usually out in the flat or in the middle of the field, where depending on the coverage run, there's a defender there in close proximity.

Witten like Zeke(rushing the ball) is a volume player. He racked up stats by getting force fed the ball at times. Never had great TD totals or YPC. And from 2010 on, he slowed down quite a bit.
But my point was recently Witten was not an explosive TE after the catch. He knew where to be, but usually turned and fell or rarely got RAC.

I don't care to over inflate Zeke's value. I'm of the opinion that you can get a good back in day 2.
But, as someone who has received a lot of targets recently, he has been good at actually catching said targets. Why Garrett hasn't schemed more more in the passing game, who knows. Gone were the screens from 2016. Maybe they knew he was running the ball a lot and didn't want to have him as the primary receiver on passing plays moving forward. If Zeke led the league every year in drops, over various sources, I would agree he was a below average pass catcher. But he has shown here and there he can be used more as a safety valve. And as the safety valve, he has done a good job at catching the ball.

I personally think the game tape shows exactly what the advanced stats show: he's not a very impressive receiver.

Your argument is that he's "done a good job catching the ball." First of all, that's about the bare minimum you can ask of a receiver. Secondly, he did have a number of drops last year (yes, I know data sources vary). But finally, does he? Among RBs that caught 20+ passes last year, his catch% was 28th. And it's not like he's running deep WR-type routes that inherently come with a lower catch%: he's being thrown dump-offs and screens. If he were good at catching the ball AND not running deep routes, I'd expect him to have one of the better catch%s in the league.

Witten, until his last few years, was always around 11-12 yards per catch, which is fine for a TE. The last couple years, Elliott's been around 7.5 yards per catch, which is bad even for an RB.

Zeke has many strengths as a player. I'd just prefer if we didn't try to pretend receiving was one of them. Again: maybe there's a great receiver hidden inside him, but I'm very skeptical.

 

[John813]

I personally think the game tape shows exactly what the advanced stats show: he's not a very impressive receiver.

Your argument is that he's "done a good job catching the ball." First of all, that's about the bare minimum you can ask of a receiver. Secondly, he did have a number of drops last year (yes, I know data sources vary). But finally, does he? Among RBs that caught 20+ passes last year, his catch% was 28th. And it's not like he's running deep WR-type routes that inherently come with a lower catch%: he's being thrown dump-offs and screens. If he were good at catching the ball AND not running deep routes, I'd expect him to have one of the better catch%s in the league.

Witten, until his last few years, was always around 11-12 yards per catch, which is fine for a TE. The last couple years, Elliott's been around 7.5 yards per catch, which is bad even for an RB.

Zeke has many strengths as a player. I'd just prefer if we didn't try to pretend receiving was one of them. Again: maybe there's a great receiver hidden inside him, but I'm very skeptical.

For a safety valve, I think catching the ball is a smidge more important.
And yes, last year he had the most drops of his career. If he caught a few more, his catch % goes way up that list. I mean, let's say he caught 3 of those passes he dropped, it bumps him to 80.3% or 16th if I'm looking at the right list. Or, 3 more passes thrown his way were catchable.
And no, I'm not blaming Dak for any issue Zeke had. He decided to stay away from the team in TC. and he had some brainfart drops and looked even slower last year.

In 2018, he was 11th in catch percentage and only had two drops.

I'm not saying Zeke is the GOAT at receiving. All I'm going for is that the past two years, when he got involved in the passing game he had a good year in 18, and a so-so year last year, mainly due to the drops.
I don't even like the guy, but I don't think he's below average in the passing game. He's bound to the limited routes given, or just standing in the corner. And I don't think Garrett ever cared to get creative with him due to how important he was to the run game. I don't think outside of the few screens called the ball was planned to go to Zeke unless the first few options were gone and or the pocket collapsed.



Maybe this was just a fluke, or maybe he does have some hidden catching talent if they tried to use him more than a safety valve.



I mean, that doesn't strike me as a poor receiver.
*Yes, small sample sizes.

 

[Manwiththeplan]

That ONE year, sure. He was solid. But I'll say it one more time - not consistently. Elliott put up those numbers in 2017 minus 6 games.

I'm not under the impression that Barber is anywhere near as good as Elliott, just Barber was comfortably over any bar that defines solid and it was more that one year.

The next year Barber rushed for 885 yards and rushed for 7 TDs and had an additional *417 yards* receiving and 2 TDs, is that not solid?

 

[SteveTheCowboy]

Yet you.... just cherry picked a stat LMAO

Nope....where?

 

[joseephuss]

Emmitt Smith, Julius Jones, Marion Barber III, DeMarco Murray, Darren McFadden and Ezekiel Elliott all have gained 1200 yards from scrimmage or more in the last 20 years. Very rarely have we not had at least a solid RB

In my opinion, 1200 yds from scrimmage is a low bar. I think a quality running back needs to be around 1500 yds in a season to really provide an impact to a team and really around 1600 yds should be the threshold since that is 100 scrimmage yards per game.

2000 Emmitt Smith 1282 yds

2001 none

2002 none

2003 none

2004 none

2005 Julius Jones 1211 yds

2006 Julius Jones 1226 yds

2007 Marion Barber III 1257 yds

2008 Marion Barber III 1302 yds

2009 none

2010 Felix Jones 1250 yds

2011 none

2012 none

2013 DeMarco Murray 1471 yds

2014 DeMarco Murray 2261 yds

2015 Darren McFadden 1417 yds

2016 Ezekiel Elliott 1994 yds

2017 Ezekiel Elliott 1252 yds

2018 Ezekiel Elliott 2001 yds

2019 Ezekiel Elliott 1777 yds

 

[Runwildboys]

One thing I will say is that should actually help his yards per route run, since he really doesn't run a route unless he is to be used as that relief valve. Or am I thinking incorrectly?

Sorry for double posting.

That's pretty much what I was wondering.

 

[QuincyCarterEra]

In my opinion, 1200 yds from scrimmage is a low bar. I think a quality running back needs to be around 1500 yds in a season to really provide an impact to a team and really around 1600 yds should be the threshold since that is 100 scrimmage yards per game.

2000 Emmitt Smith 1282 yds

2001 none

2002 none

2003 none

2004 none

2005 Julius Jones 1211 yds

2006 Julius Jones 1226 yds

2007 Marion Barber III 1257 yds

2008 Marion Barber III 1302 yds

2009 none

2010 Felix Jones 1250 yds

2011 none

2012 none

2013 DeMarco Murray 1471 yds

2014 DeMarco Murray 2261 yds

2015 Darren McFadden 1417 yds

2016 Ezekiel Elliott 1994 yds

2017 Ezekiel Elliott 1252 yds

2018 Ezekiel Elliott 2001 yds

2019 Ezekiel Elliott 1777 yds

Wait soooooo only 6 RBs were "solid" last year?

 

[SteveTheCowboy]

I don;t know how you can watch this and say with a straight face "He's not elite". There's a lot of yards after contact....even on the tackles he's still getting couple more yards.

And makes a great safety valve for Dak with lots of yards and 1st downs.

 

[SteveTheCowboy]

I personally think the game tape shows exactly what the advanced stats show: he's not a very impressive receiver.

Your argument is that he's "done a good job catching the ball." First of all, that's about the bare minimum you can ask of a receiver. Secondly, he did have a number of drops last year (yes, I know data sources vary). But finally, does he? Among RBs that caught 20+ passes last year, his catch% was 28th. And it's not like he's running deep WR-type routes that inherently come with a lower catch%: he's being thrown dump-offs and screens. If he were good at catching the ball AND not running deep routes, I'd expect him to have one of the better catch%s in the league.

Witten, until his last few years, was always around 11-12 yards per catch, which is fine for a TE. The last couple years, Elliott's been around 7.5 yards per catch, which is bad even for an RB.

Zeke has many strengths as a player. I'd just prefer if we didn't try to pretend receiving was one of them. Again: maybe there's a great receiver hidden inside him, but I'm very skeptical.

A lot of those "dump offs" are weird throws by Dak cause he's in trouble. Not always the easiest thing to catch. And he's had several nice over the shoulder catches....one of them is above I am trying to find another one I am thinking of, he was running the left sideline...sweet catch. And good pass too I might add.

 

[slick325]

Barring injury...the Cowboys will have their 3rd RB in the Football HOF. That is where football's elite end up. Hopefully he will be inducted having won at least one SB like the other two have been. Zeke is a bad dude!!! McCarthy has never had a back like him. Can't wait to see how this offense makes things even easier for Zeke, having those 3 WRs outside as threats.

But, by all means...bash away.

 

[Vtwin]

These are my favorite kind of stats.

Stats compiled by using the eye test which are then used by some to refute the eye test opinions of others.

Pure gold.

 

[aria]

But Chris Carson is?????
Or Derrick Henry???

These type of stats don't say anything.

Then what stats do? Yards after contact? Yards from line of scrimmage? How about fumbles? Most receptions? Most yards after reception? What about 20+ yard runs? What about 40+ yard runs? What about avg yard per carry? How about most missed tackles after a reception?

Please say yes, pretty please? Let me guess, the only important stat, and the most misleading to judge the overall quality of a RB, is the one you and all the other Zeke lovers will claim matters the most which is total yards. Take almost any RB in the top 15, put him behind our O line, and they would have similar if not better success than Zeke has had. No other RB has had as had as consistently good O line as Zeke has had for their first 4 years.

Complete waste of a draft pick and salary cap space. Hell, we could have got Henry in the 2nd which would have been much more reasonable for a RB.

 

[QuincyCarterEra]

Nope....where?

Yep.... right here
"Yep! Rushing champ two of 4 years...ain't elite. Good call"

You always say cherry picking stats, but it's always a multitude of stats given not just one, and yet you always reply with this. Wouldn't that mean that you should stop pulling the "cherry picking stats" card and that it is actually you cherry picking one stat over and over?

 

[aria]

Yep.... right here
"Yep! Rushing champ two of 4 years...ain't elite. Good call"

You always say cherry picking stats, but ut's always a multitude of stats given not just one, and yet you always reply with this. Wouldn't that mean that you should stop pulling the "cherry picking stats" card?

He’s worthless arguing with, surprised I haven’t blocked him yet but I have mentally ignored him. He literally makes no sense at times and provides nothing to back up his opinions.

 

[Cebrin]

2016 he was elite hasn't been the last 3 years. volume of carries doesn't mean elite.

Our OL has evolved/rolled over significantly since 2016 as well.

 

[QuincyCarterEra]

He’s worthless arguing with, surprised I haven’t blocked him yet but I have mentally ignored him. He literally makes no sense at times and provides nothing to back up his opinions.

My first time encountering him his defense turned into "how could you talk bad about a player on the cowboys and call yourself a cowboys fan makes no sense yadda yadda yadda"
Then I go to another thread and he's talking negatively about Dak lmao. It was so odd.

 

[Hennessy_King]

Our OL has evolved/rolled over significantly since 2016 as well.

This is true. But our run blocking grades have typically been top 10 and he hasn't ran against a lot of stacked boxes.

 

[Cebrin]

In my opinion, 1200 yds from scrimmage is a low bar. I think a quality running back needs to be around 1500 yds in a season to really provide an impact to a team and really around 1600 yds should be the threshold since that is 100 scrimmage yards per game.

2000 Emmitt Smith 1282 yds

2001 none

2002 none

2003 none

2004 none

2005 Julius Jones 1211 yds

2006 Julius Jones 1226 yds

2007 Marion Barber III 1257 yds

2008 Marion Barber III 1302 yds

2009 none

2010 Felix Jones 1250 yds

2011 none

2012 none

2013 DeMarco Murray 1471 yds

2014 DeMarco Murray 2261 yds

2015 Darren McFadden 1417 yds

2016 Ezekiel Elliott 1994 yds

2017 Ezekiel Elliott 1252 yds

2018 Ezekiel Elliott 2001 yds

2019 Ezekiel Elliott 1777 yds

You're looking at it one dimensionally. The Cowboys had a total rushing yards of 2153 last season. trying to get 1600 on average from one guy is a good way to make the big money you just paid him a waste. The only team to have significantly more yards was Baltimore, and they had 140+ more attempts.

 

[Cebrin]

This is true. But our run blocking grades have typically been top 10 and he hasn't ran against a lot of stacked boxes.

Don't need to stack boxes when the O Line isn't making holes . Hopefully these young bucks start improving. Collins certainly turned it around.

 

[InTheZone]

Yep! Rushing champ two of 4 years...ain't elite. Good call.

would've been 3 of 4 if not for the bs suspension
would've had 2000 yards his rookie year if he didn't get hosed on half of his breakaway runs
plays on a offense where no defense fears our QB


why do some people think if you're not #1 in every stat of every category for several consecutive seasons then you're just meh? lol