PFT: Breaking down the rest of round one, 2005... 15 are busts (Spears)

[WoodysGirl]

I can't stand that site. It's part of the "New Media" -- which is fine as I work in it as well -- but the smarmy, nasty, side of it is flat wrong. That and just blogging unsourced stuff to stir the pot drives me nuts.

Interesting, alot of PFT is sourced now. Of course, when it is just rumors, they identify as such...

It's only when Florio starts giving his spin on things (like this post) that it gets a bit shaky.

 

[JohnnyHopkins]

No, he played OLB in the 3-4 and DE in the 4-3 and nickel packages.

I believe that Ellis didn't transition to OLB until 2006. He started ahead of Canty in 2005 at DE until the last third of the season.

 

[aikemirv]

14. Thomas Davis, safety/linebacker, Panthers: He’s not spectacular, but he started 16 games in 2007. Not a bust.

20. Marcus Spears, defensive end, Cowboys: Yeah, he has been a three-year starter. But he was rumored to be on the trading block earlier this year, and his impact hasn’t reflected his stature as one of the top 20 players in the draft. BUST.

 

[YosemiteSam]

No, he played DE in the 3-4 during the 2005 season as well as DE in the nickel packages. He didn't convert to OLB until the 2006 season.

If he did it was absolute minimal. Spears started 10 games that season, if Ellis played DE in a 3-4, he damn sure didn't play it much has he couldn't hold his ground in the running game against double teams. He would have been a nothing but a huge target to opposing teams looking to run.

DEs and NTs in a 3-4 (especially Bill Parcells 3-4) are for consuming offensive linemen allowing linebackers to make tackles in the running game. Ellis would have a hard time consuming a center and guard, much less a guard and tackle.

Ellis playing DE in a 3-4 for more than a play or two at a time is utterly stupid.

 

[YosemiteSam]

I believe that Ellis didn't transition to OLB until 2006. He started ahead of Canty in 2005 at DE until the last third of the season.

The Cowboys were playing a mix of 4-3 and 3-4 in 2005. Ellis was not playing a lot of DE in the 3-4.

 

[DR.WARE]

Pick was traded to Chargers for Eli Manning, remember?

i dont no how i forgot that

 

[JohnnyHopkins]

If he did it was absolute minimal. Spears started 10 games that season, if Ellis played DE in a 3-4, he damn sure didn't play it much has he couldn't hold his ground in the running game against double teams. He would have been a nothing but a huge target to opposing teams looking to run.

DEs and NTs in a 3-4 (especially Bill Parcells 3-4) are for consuming offensive linemen allowing linebackers to make tackles in the running game. Ellis would have a hard time consuming a center and guard, much less a guard and tackle.

Ellis playing DE in a 3-4 for more than a play or two at a time is utterly stupid.

Ratliff backed up Spears in 2005, Ellis was on the other side. Parcells was utterly stupid for 2005.

 

[InmanRoshi]

I think they're holding it against Spears that the Cowboys had him on the block, but that says more about the Cowboys depth on the DL than it does about Spears. Maybe the Cowboys would have moved him for an excellent price given that they have so many bodies currently on the defensive line, but it's not like they were looking to unload dead weight. They could have moved Spears easily for a late round pick if they were looking to do that.

Spears will never be a great pass rusher, but he very much fills the role of the stout 3-4 DE who holds at the point of attack. Ty Warren gets lavished with praise by the media for filling the exact same role for the Patriots.

 

[JPM]

31. Mike Patterson, defensive tackle, Eagles: The Philly chapter of PFT Planet will revolt if we were to call Patterson a bust. Not a bust.

OK, wait the only reason Patterson isn't a bust is cause the PFT Philly people will be mad ? That makes perfect sense.

Spears will never be a great pass rusher, but he very much fills the role of the stout 3-4 DE who holds at the point of attack. Ty Warren gets lavished with praise by the media for filling the exact same role for the Patriots.

Come on IR you know better, it's the Pats.

 

[YosemiteSam]

Ratliff backed up Spears in 2005, Ellis was on the other side. Parcells was utterly stupid for 2005.

It's called a 4-3 defense. Remember Mike Zimmer?

 

[WoodysGirl]

It's called a 4-3 defense. Remember Mike Zimmer?

Ellis started the majority of 2005, with Canty backing him up. Canty took over towards the end of 2005 with Ellis behind him playing only nickle situations.

It was always Spears/Ratliff....and Ellis/Canty. When Ellis went to OLB, it became Canty/Hatcher.

 

[JohnnyHopkins]

The Cowboys were playing a mix of 4-3 and 3-4 in 2005. Ellis was not playing a lot of DE in the 3-4.

3-4 was their base defense in 2005. Ellis was their starting RDE. Here is a quote from a Mickey Spagnola article:

"OXNARD, Calif. - Saturday night was what Greg Ellis was talking about, that apprehension he had over becoming a right defensive end in this 3-4 scheme."

"I'm feeling better about it," Ellis said of his role in the 3-4.

Don't want to post the whole thing because it is ridiculously long. Point is that you stated he could not play Defensive End in the 3-4 and he did actually play it in 2005. He is simply much better as an Outside Linebacker, so that is where he was moved in 2006 once they had Canty in place.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

7. Troy Williamson, receiver, Vikings: We once tried to throw Williamson a compliment, but he dropped that, too. BUST.

concerning Spears, he may be the 3-4 DE version of Greg Ellis, a solid, yet unspectacular 1st round pick

 

[JohnnyHopkins]

It's called a 4-3 defense. Remember Mike Zimmer?

Yes, I believe that is the same guy that coached the 3-4 Base Defense in Dallas for 2005 and 2006. Could be that I, along with Jean Jacques Taylor got it wrong, though:

"06:55 PM CDT on Tuesday, May 31, 2005

Jean-Jacques Taylor

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When it's all said and done, this season is going to be all about the 3-4.

It's about whether Mike Zimmer can coach. "

 

[YosemiteSam]

Ellis started the majority of 2005, with Canty backing him up. Canty took over towards the end of 2005 with Ellis behind him playing only nickle situations.

It was always Spears/Ratliff....and Ellis/Canty. When Ellis went to OLB, it became Canty/Hatcher.

I remember, my point is (especially early in the year) the Cowboys played a 4-3 defense and peppered in the 3-4 when Canty and Spears.

2005 was the year when Bill Parcells finally was able to draft a lot of players to begin the switch to the 3-4 defense. They didn't just drop the 4-3 cold turkey in 2005. The Cowboys didn't become a true 3-4 until 2006.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Bust happy.

Drafted in the latter part of the first round, starter in the NFL every year that he has been in the league on one of the better defenses in the entire league and he is a bust?

I think this list just got labelled a bust.

To get a full time starter from day one with the 20th pick in the draft. That is not a bust. Now, if he was drafted top 5, maybe you could somewhat label him a bust, but how many top five draft picks aren't even in the league after three years, how about starting?

Bust my ***!

what's funny is that they say Jason Campbell is not a bust, even though he's been pedestrian

but he may evolve into one of the better QBs in the conference even though all he's shown is that he can throw a nice deep ball, but so what? so could Quincy Carter

 

[TheCount]

Who doesn't remember Ellis moaning and crying over the coversion to 3-4 DE? I know it's hard to keep track with the moaning and crying he does before the start of every season, but still.

 

[DaBoys4Life]

Spears is not a bust. He is no superstar, either. Just a solid player.

A lot of people were saying that Antrell Rolle should be a safety before that draft. That he would be better as a safety and not a corner. I know there were a lot on this board hoping he would be around for the Cowboys later pick, so he could be drafted as a FS. I am not sure if he is clearly a bust. Usually the only clear thing about the Cardinals is that the franchise does not know what it is doing.

I don't consider 30 tackles and two sacks a solid player thats a bust in my eyes his numbers went down and out of all DE in the 3-4 (starters) he had the least amount of tackles and one of the lowest sack totals.

 

[tomson75]

what's funny is that they say Jason Campbell is not a bust, even though he's been pedestrian

but he may evolve into one of the better QBs in the conference even though all he's shown is that he can throw a nice deep ball, but so what? so could Quincy Carter

...and that's giving him too much credit. "A nice deep spiral to a general area" would be more appropriate, as his accuracy on those deep balls has been shown to be among the worst in the league. Per Adam IIRC.

 

[big dog cowboy]

I won't say Ellis is a bust just yet. He falls into the "disappointing" category because I (as most) expected more. Last year was just his first year in Wade's system. Lets see if he can make a bigger impact this year.