PFT: NFL declines to release Elliott investigative report, transcript of hearing

[BigD16]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...t-investigative-report-transcript-of-hearing/

This thing looks worse and worse for the league all the time.

It really needs to go to court. Maybe then things will start to get fixed.

The people in that comment section is exactly why this decision against zeke is wrong. Because of the NFL's decision, everybody assumes that zeke is a wife beater because they're all too stupid and lazy to do some basic fact checking.

 

[GhostOfPelluer]

That's true to an extent, but depends on the defamation from my understanding.

This is from legalzoom.com:



For Elliott, he would have to prove that the statements made by the NFL that he "has committed a serious crime" are false for it to qualify as defamation, but it may not be necessary for him to prove the statements were "made with the knowledge that it was untrue or with reckless disregard for the truth." However, I'm not sure if the public figure exception would be in effect where it would be held to a higher standard.

When the news first broke, I was on board with the defamation angle, but after thinking about it, I just don't think Elliott can prove the first thing needed for a defamation suit, that the information is false. It may be false, there may be reasons to believe it is false, but I can't see how he would be able to prove it without witnesses or video evidence to substantiate his claims.

This is not saying he doesn't have an argument against the suspension. The league "convicted" him based on the testimony of one witness who had shown herself to be unreliable and out to get Elliott. Such a conviction likely would not stand up in a court, but again, we have to deal with the powers given to the commissioner to punish regardless of guilt being proven.

I think a court should limit those powers to the league only being able to punish players when there has been a clear violation of law (such as video evidence, a court conviction, etc.), but considering that this is an employer-employee relationship, I'm not sure how much authority the courts will have. Ultimately, it will likely be up to the NFLPA to negotiate this power down in the next CBA unless it wants to take drastic measures.

You've been consistently hitting the nail on the head on this issue. For that you get a:

As for Zeke being a public figure, he would undoubtedly be considered so. The burden of proof that the allegations were false would be on Zeke. As a public figure the part about reckless disregard for the truth, that would be just as difficult to prove.

I was thinking for a while that the employer-employee relationship could open a legal avenue, but I'm pretty sure the CBA and union laws would actually have the opposite effect.

I wouldn't discount the civil rights potential of this case. Not sure what evidence is there to support that, but it could become a factor - in public opinion if nothing else.

 

[darthseinfeld]

Yep. A complete sham. The worst part is Zeke is now just one incident away from missing a season or more.

If it counts as DV, one more DV and he is banished

 

[Sydla]

I haven't read the entire thing closely, but from what I interpreted, they're punishing him for DV while saying they're punishing for conduct detrimental...I don't follow their logic.

I didn't get that by maybe I missed it. In the decision section of the letter they specifically talk about the DV policy and how it calls for 6 games mandatory.

 

[cowboy_ron]

Goodell is as incompetent as another "leader" I can think of.....neither should be in their respective positions.

 

[LandryFan]

They favor Elliott only from the standpoint that she threatened to ruin his career and showed that she would lie to do it. (This is the only irrefutable evidence.) The problem is that they do not show that he didn't do what she's claiming. The NFL panel apparently believes that he did (despite those issues) and since they do not have to believe that beyond a shadow of a doubt and are not burden with proving it, Elliott's recourses would seem to be limited.

Agreed.

 

[dogunwo]

I dont see how their ratings won't dip this year. With all the cord cutting going on the last 12 months, seems like a foregone conclusion.

Most "cord cutters" still have access to nationally televised games over the air for free with an HD antenna.

 

[PA Cowboy Fan]

I live in an NFL city that is not Dallas, and as far as the court of public opinion goes, I think I have a good feel for what non-Cowboys fans are on this situation based on debates I have had with friends and colleagues. AT least in Green Bay anyways. Almost every person that I have had discussions with on the Zeke situation has been siding with the NFL and they feel he is guilty and deserves the suspension. This can be expected since the info they are receiving is mostly from the side of the alleged victim via the NFL. That being said, if the rest of the non-Cowboy country is experiencing what I am experiencing, it is going to be very hard for the NFL to back-off this suspension. Guilty or not, if the NFL reduces or eliminates the suspension at this point, I feel they are going to be getting some significant backlash from the public.

As a Cowboys fan, I don't like it at all.

This could get even uglier yet.

Of course they are. It's the mob mentality. The problem here is 1)He's a Cowboy and there is already a dislike there especially in GB.2) Zeke is not very likeable with what he's been doing off the field 3) People are against DV and are tired of people getting away with it and 4) the media is siding with the NFL. They are only showing one side.Zeke has to fight this to prove his innocence even if he never gets the suspension overturned. He's been tried and convicted by the NFL.

 

[dogunwo]

From a legal perspective there's a question of why Josh Brown got a 1-game suspension versus Elliott getting a 6-game suspension. And there's also questions as to the length of the suspension in accordance to when this incident happened.

They may also have legal points with them admitting that they basically forced Elliott to come up with reasons why Thompson had bruises on her. If they did not come up with that line of questions/demands from other players accused of DV, then that may be construed by a court as not being consistent with how the investigation was handled. And they might have a case to state that Peter Harvey claiming that Thompson was a witness to her own accusation was something that others accused of DV were afforded that EE was not.





YR

You are on the ball today my friend.

 

[LandryFan]

However, if it did go to court Goddell will be forced to answer the question on why they suspended Zeke for 6 games while there was overwhelming evidence to prove that he was innocent. What will his answer be to that?

Unfortunately, the court would not even address that. The CBA says he can, and the courts won't interfere with that. Not saying that's right, but it is what it is until the CBA is changed.

 

[darthseinfeld]

I don't think the court took that into consideration. In general, the courts are very reluctant to get involved in private business matters governed by their own rules and regulations.

I know many of us are hoping, but after further research, I don't see Zeke fairing any better than Brady did.

My guess as to what happens:

1) Elliott plays all regular and postseason games this year

2) He loses in court and serves his suspension next year.

This would be more advantageous to us as we can go into an offseason assuming or knowing he will be suspended VS assuming he wont.

As for Goodell Im not sure. His contract is up and he has some other things going against him. Dont think its quit enough for them to move on now, but if ratings dont rebound to the owners liking and the league is dragged through the mud here, could spell the end for him

 

[LandryFan]

Paid attention in business law class and knows the UCMJ...good man.

 

[BotchedLobotomy]

Of course they are. It's the mob mentality. The problem here is 1)He's a Cowboy and there is already a dislike there especially in GB.2) Zeke is not very likeable with what he's been doing off the field 3) People are against DV and are tired of people getting away with it and 4) the media is siding with the NFL. They are only showing one side.Zeke has to fight this to prove his innocence even if he never gets the suspension overturned. He's been tried and convicted by the NFL.

Here is my theory....Zeke appeals to the NFL, and if the NFL does not remove or greatly reduce the suspension, Zeke has two options. 1 - He accepts the results of the NFL appeal and this tells me he is probably guilty on some level. or 2 - He takes this to the courts ala Tom Brady, and this tells me that he is probably innocent. I say this because we really don't know the exact evidence the NFL has on Zeke.

 

[LandryFan]

I didn't get that by maybe I missed it. In the decision section of the letter they specifically talk about the DV policy and how it calls for 6 games mandatory.

...or maybe I missed it. I think I need to go read it through carefully before going any further with my opinions/statements...

 

[Bleedblue1111]

Something stinks in all this mess...

Roger Grossmell?

 

[PA Cowboy Fan]

Here is my theory....Zeke appeals to the NFL, and if the NFL does not remove or greatly reduce the suspension, Zeke has two options. 1 - He accepts the results of the NFL appeal and this tells me he is probably guilty on some level. or 2 - He takes this to the courts ala Tom Brady, and this tells me that he is probably innocent. I say this because we really don't know the exact evidence the NFL has on Zeke.

If he accepts it then he will be considered guilty including by most Cowboy fans. Because he would be acknowledging that the NFL is right. No innocent man would accept that because the most important thing you have is your reputation and they are calling him a woman abuser.

 

[BotchedLobotomy]

Goodell is as incompetent as another "leader" I can think of.....neither should be in their respective positions.

 

[ConstantReboot]

Unfortunately, the court would not even address that. The CBA says he can, and the courts won't interfere with that. Not saying that's right, but it is what it is until the CBA is changed.

Quite possibly. But if Zeke's Dad does file a suite against him things could change. And the CBA will not protect Goddell from testifying.

Anyways, this who thing about the CBA and the rule of conduct hurtful for the league doesn't apply to Zeke.

My reasoning is because he didn't cause any injuries or hurt towards the victim. Thus this is not a DV case at all.

Its going to get very messy. The leagues case against Zeke doesn't look good and its unraveling by the minute.

 

[gimmesix]

You've been consistently hitting the nail on the head on this issue. For that you get a:

As for Zeke being a public figure, he would undoubtedly be considered so. The burden of proof that the allegations were false would be on Zeke. As a public figure the part about reckless disregard for the truth, that would be just as difficult to prove.

I was thinking for a while that the employer-employee relationship could open a legal avenue, but I'm pretty sure the CBA and union laws would actually have the opposite effect.

I wouldn't discount the civil rights potential of this case. Not sure what evidence is there to support that, but it could become a factor - in public opinion if nothing else.

I'm not really sure the civil rights defense will fly unless his legal team can show clear discrimination. I think they have to attack the fact that the penalty is too harsh for the circumstances considering the overall lack of evidence and unreliability of the victim. In order to get it reduced, Elliott might have to make some concessions that he doesn't want to make. If he doesn't want to do that, I'm not sure how he would fare in court. Adrian Peterson and Ray Rice both had their suspensions overturned (and there was no doubt they committed the offense), but theirs were indefinite suspensions.

Peterson's suspension was overturned because the judge agreed with bias claims against the league-appointed arbitrator, so it had nothing to do with the fairness of the suspension. Rice's was overturned because the judge concluded that he did not mislead Goodell when he was disciplined the first time. That judge ruled that "the commissioner needed to be fair and consistent in his imposition of discipline," so maybe Elliott's team can prove that he is not doing that in this instance. I think they could use the Josh Brown suspension in this way.

 

[haleyrules]

If he accepts it then he will be considered guilty including by most Cowboy fans. Because he would be acknowledging that the NFL is right. No innocent man would accept that because the most important thing you have is your reputation and they are calling him a woman abuser.

I don't think Elliott is accepting it. He will appeal. Can he win in court?