PFT: Roboballs Coming?...Remote sensing footballs

[WoodysGirl]

Posted by Mike Florio on December 17, 2008, 9:05 a.m.

In the wake of Super Bowl XL, which included a very questionable on-the-field decision regarding whether Steelers quarterback Ben Roethlisberger broke the plane of the end zone on a sneak play, we argued that the time had come to employ technology that would allow officials to know conclusively when the ball has entered the end zone.

As we wrote on February 6, 2006 (does this count as plagiarizing myself?):

“On review, [referee[ Bill Leavy made the right decision, since there was no indisputable evidence that the ball didn’t get in. In fact, it looked to us as if the ball kissed the plane, which would make it a legitimate touchdown. But if the call on the field had been that Roethlisberger didn’t get in, there wouldn’t have been enough evidence via replay to reverse.

“Bottom line — it’s time to develop an electronic system for determining whether the ball entered the end zone. Otherwise, the NFL should revert to the original rule requiring the runner to actually ‘touch down’ the ball in the goal area.”

Nearly three years later, and three days after an identical situation helped deliver for the Steelers the AFC North crown, a university in (you guessed it) Pittsburgh is designing the tools to make it happen.

According to the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, a professor at Carnegie Mellon University is working with her students to develop a ball that can be equipped with remote sensing technology.

“When I moved here, I loved the people and their energy,” said Dr. Priya Narasimhan, “and then I fell in love with football and I just started watching the Steelers and now, you can’t get me out of the home on Sundays.”

We think it’s great, and not just because yours truly holds two undergraduate degrees from that fine institution. (Great, now they’re going to call and ask me for money.) We have long believed that the league must embrace all available technology in order to ensure that the calls on the field, and those made via replay review, are accurate.

But if Dr. Narasimhan truly is a Steelers fan, she might want to wrap her project up in a sack and send it to the bottom of the confluence. The Steelers have been the beneficiaries of the current imperfections in the system; improving the technology could end up costing them games.

 

[thisisepic]

But if Dr. Narasimhan truly is a Steelers fan, she might want to wrap her project up in a sack and send it to the bottom of the confluence. The Steelers have been the beneficiaries of the current imperfections in the system; improving the technology could end up costing them games.

Exactly what I was thinking until I got this far.

 

[TheCount]

I don't think it'll ever happen, especially since no one bothers the thing of the science that would be involved in getting something like this to work.

As far as I know, there is no current technology that will track a ball within a centimeter of its exact location without having to add a device INSIDE the ball (which would require a power source). At that point you start messing with something these guys have played with since they were kids.

Look at when the NBA just tried to switch leather to composite in their basketballs, the players darn near revolted and they had to go back.

 

[Tra_Col99]

Didnt the NHL experiment with pucks that would glow after a hard shot so that fans on TV could see where the puck went? What technology was that? Was the puck manipulated to make that happen?


EDIT: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k91UfVwhY3A&feature=related

Dont remember why they stopped using that, but it looks like it worked to follow the faster moving puck. Footballs dont move as fast as a puck...so it may work.

 

[theogt]

I don't think it'll ever happen, especially since no one bothers the thing of the science that would be involved in getting something like this to work.

As far as I know, there is no current technology that will track a ball within a centimeter of its exact location without having to add a device INSIDE the ball (which would require a power source). At that point you start messing with something these guys have played with since they were kids.

Look at when the NBA just tried to switch leather to composite in their basketballs, the players darn near revolted and they had to go back.

The impact of a device in the ball (or likely on each end of the ball) would be so minimal no one would be able to tell.

 

[AmericasTeam31]

We'd still to have to replay whether or not that "remote sensing ball" crossed the plane before or after the knee was down, or if said ball was caught with both feet down and the ball across the plane of the goalline. Or did the ball cross the goalline in the air, but wasn't "controlled" until it was outside of the endzone...etc...

 

[TheCount]

The impact of a device in the ball (or likely on each end of the ball) would be so minimal no one would be able to tell.

I'm not so sure about that, but whatever, it won't happen anytime soon anyway.

I have yet to see even so much as a prototype or anyone actually try to explain HOW it would work, people just keep saying "device" or "tracking" like it's already been done in any other sport.

And AmericasTeam is right, it doesn't even begin to solve a bunch of other problems.

 

[1fisher]

where would they place the sensor? would the entire ball have to cross the plain of the goaline........

 

[1fisher]

I'm not so sure about that, but whatever, it won't happen anytime soon anyway.

I have yet to see even so much as a prototype or anyone actually try to explain HOW it would work, people just keep saying "device" or "tracking" like it's already been done in any other sport.

And AmericasTeam is right, it doesn't even begin to solve a bunch of other problems. Refs could still review it and said it crossed the line but his feet weren't down, so what happens then, we make technology that lines the whole field and in every players shoes to determine if they made contact with the field?

how about invisible fence and a shock collar for all the players? Imagine the endzone celebrations! Merton Hanks comes to mind......LOL

 

[sacowboysfan513]

This would add a whole new set of questions. I doubt it could be done and be successful.

 

[theogt]

I'm not so sure about that, but whatever, it won't happen anytime soon anyway.

I have yet to see even so much as a prototype or anyone actually try to explain HOW it would work, people just keep saying "device" or "tracking" like it's already been done in any other sport.

Maybe you could actually read the article linked to in the OP.

And AmericasTeam is right, it doesn't even begin to solve a bunch of other problems. Refs could still review it and said it crossed the line but his feet weren't down, so what happens then, we make technology that lines the whole field and in every players shoes to determine if they made contact with the field?

Not being able to fix all problems isn't a reason to not fix any problem.

 

[thisisepic]

The point of this is to see if the ball has broken the plane of the endzone nothing more nothing less.

Just put a shock collar on the ball and bury an electric fence line under the goal line.

EDIT: Damn I took to long to post this haha

 

[adbutcher]

I don't think it'll ever happen, especially since no one bothers the thing of the science that would be involved in getting something like this to work.

As far as I know, there is no current technology that will track a ball within a centimeter of its exact location without having to add a device INSIDE the ball (which would require a power source). At that point you start messing with something these guys have played with since they were kids.

Look at when the NBA just tried to switch leather to composite in their basketballs, the players darn near revolted and they had to go back.

[youtube]yNPDgudPmXE[/youtube]

 

[TheCount]

Maybe you could actually read the article linked to in the OP.

Oh, I read it, I found it quite humorous.

adbuther: I'm well aware of RFID, it doesn't work in a manner that would be applicable here, especially if we're talking about seemless implementation as to where players won't notice it and it certainly won't work in letting you know if something crossed within a few centimeters of a given line.

 

[nathanlt]

I don't think it'll ever happen, especially since no one bothers the thing of the science that would be involved in getting something like this to work.

As far as I know, there is no current technology that will track a ball within a centimeter of its exact location without having to add a device INSIDE the ball (which would require a power source). At that point you start messing with something these guys have played with since they were kids.

Look at when the NBA just tried to switch leather to composite in their basketballs, the players darn near revolted and they had to go back.

Exactly. Everything is based off of a distance and tolerance. The sensor in the football would have to break the plain of the goal line, plus or minus one centimeter or inch, or something. So you could break the plain by one inch, and still not set off the alarm. Or there could be a malfunction in the device and you wouldn't set off the alarm at all! To get the tolerances down to a centimeter or less would be astronomical to invent. The human eyeball is still better than that, identifying green and white pretty clearly. And that's the best way to go.

 

[theogt]

Oh, I read it, I found it quite humorous.

adbuther: I'm well aware of RFID, it doesn't work in a manner that would be applicable here, especially if we're talking about seemless implementation as to where players won't notice it and it certainly won't work in letting you know if something crossed within a few centimeters of a given line.

It's not like we're building flying cars here.

 

[adbutcher]

Exactly. Everything is based off of a distance and tolerance. The sensor in the football would have to break the plain of the goal line, plus or minus one centimeter or inch, or something. So you could break the plain by one inch, and still not set off the alarm. Or there could be a malfunction in the device and you wouldn't set off the alarm at all! To get the tolerances down to a centimeter or less would be astronomical to invent. The human eyeball is still better than that, identifying green and white pretty clearly. And that's the best way to go.

No tolerance will be necessary. A simple go / nogo can be deployed. The beauty of electronic devices is once they are properly calibrated and maintained accuracy and reliability are virtually guaranteed.

 

[adbutcher]

Oh, I read it, I found it quite humorous.

adbuther: I'm well aware of RFID, it doesn't work in a manner that would be applicable here, especially if we're talking about seemless implementation as to where players won't notice it and it certainly won't work in letting you know if something crossed within a few centimeters of a given line.

Not in its current application but technology such as RFID can be adapted to work. It just takes an open mind.

 

[theogt]

Exactly. Everything is based off of a distance and tolerance. The sensor in the football would have to break the plain of the goal line, plus or minus one centimeter or inch, or something. So you could break the plain by one inch, and still not set off the alarm. Or there could be a malfunction in the device and you wouldn't set off the alarm at all! To get the tolerances down to a centimeter or less would be astronomical to invent. The human eyeball is still better than that, identifying green and white pretty clearly. And that's the best way to go.

No one's saying you have to take the human eyes off the field. If the sensor doesn't work and you can see the ball cross the plane, the call it a TD.

 

[adbutcher]

It's not like we're building flying cars here.

Ditto. I deal with bleeding edge tech. on a daily basis but making any technological advancement all starts the same way with a desire by a customer.

Without getting too technical, once you establish requirements, you can perform a trade study analysis comparing existing tech with the intent of satisfying requirements. If nothing exist that you can easily modify or adapt, you create it. But all of this is for naught if no one wants it.