PFT: Roboballs Coming?...Remote sensing footballs

[TheCount]

Not in its current application but technology such as RFID can be adapted to work. It just takes an open mind.

I'd genuinely love to hear a theory on how that would be possible using current tech, actually.

As far as I know, RFID doesn't work this way and doesn't give position data so much as it simply says it is within the range of the sensor and then the sensor can read whatever is on the tag.

To give location you need an x and a y, and possibly a z. RFID doesn't do any of those things, again, as far as I know.

Even GPS units are accurate to within a meter or so, not inches and certainly not centimeters.

Anything is possible, with enough money, but the league isn't going to spend billions inventing new, better than military grade, technology to determine whether Santionio Holmes has 4 touchdowns or 3 this season.

 

[hairic]

I'd genuinely love to hear a theory on how that would be possible using current tech, actually.

As far as I know, RFID doesn't work this way and doesn't give position data so much as it simply says it is within the range of the sensor and then the sensor can read whatever is on the tag.

To give location you need an x and a y, and possibly a z. RFID doesn't do any of those things, again, as far as I know.

Even GPS units are accurate to within a meter or so, not inches and certainly not centimeters.

Anything is possible, with enough money, but the league isn't going to spend billions inventing new, better than military grade, technology to determine whether Santionio Holmes has 4 touchdowns or 3 this season.

GPS uses triangulation on a much bigger scale and can't have that many points from which to calculate to get great precision yet (not enough triangles - would involve too much space trash). Triangulate something the size of a football field and the precision shrinks because you could calculate from every half yard and hash mark if you wanted to. The only difficult part, IMO, is syncing the data with the replays. Pick the frame where the knee goes down or there's contact or when someone steps out of bounds and the system gives the exact ball spot would be ideal for the stupid refs. But with centers constantly fidgeting the ball, that'd be hard to be precise with. I guess... if you could get it to when the computers sense a snap, it'd kick in overhead cameras, which you could then sync up with the TV cameras to get the ball spot.

Would also have to have the ball boys store each ball in shielded bags to keep the signal from reaching the sensors, but could also program the sensors to ignore angles calculated above/below a certain point (balls outside the field).

And for novelty, the broadcasters could report the height of passes, kicks, punts, kickoffs, etc.

BTW, RFID = radio frequency id. It's just a radio transmitter in essence. Just drop the ID and use the radio transmitter and listen for that frequency and do the calculations. But you could use other network technologies, or develop your own proprietary one, to get the signal out of the ball if fans/teams start jamming signals.

 

[LittleBoyBlue]

I don't think it'll ever happen, especially since no one bothers the thing of the science that would be involved in getting something like this to work.

As far as I know, there is no current technology that will track a ball within a centimeter of its exact location without having to add a device INSIDE the ball (which would require a power source). At that point you start messing with something these guys have played with since they were kids.

Look at when the NBA just tried to switch leather to composite in their basketballs, the players darn near revolted and they had to go back.

You couldnt be more wrong. The technology is actually the easy part.

If this isnt implemented by 2012 I would be suprised.
I actually think it will or should happen sooner.

 

[masomenos]

Mike Florio went to Carnegie Mellon? Who knew...

 

[CanadianCowboysFan]

Didnt the NHL experiment with pucks that would glow after a hard shot so that fans on TV could see where the puck went? What technology was that? Was the puck manipulated to make that happen?


EDIT: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k91UfVwhY3A&feature=related

Dont remember why they stopped using that, but it looks like it worked to follow the faster moving puck. Footballs dont move as fast as a puck...so it may work.

that was for Fox tv when it carried NHL games. Most NHL fans hated seeing a glowing puck.

 

[masomenos]

I always thought that similar technology should be used to help the cameras track the football. I hate watching a game on TV and having the cameraman get confused on a play action.

 

[theogt]

I always thought that similar technology should be used to help the cameras track the football. I hate watching a game on TV and having the cameraman get confused on a play action.

Well, now we know that the powerful cameraman lobby will block this.

 

[masomenos]

Well, now we know that the powerful cameraman lobby will block this.

They could always just take a job with the Patriots. I hear Belichick is looking for some good help.

 

[Hoofbite]

How about the league starts hiring full time guys with a little youth to do the job.

These old *** part timers just aren't cutting it.

There is absolutely no excuse why a BILLION dollar entity puts up with the results that are on display each and every week.

Pay these guys a salary they can live off of (nothing absurd but a full time salary) and have them spend time getting things right before they go onto the field.

Offseason, preseason, regular season, post season, these guys need to spend as much time as they can getting it all figured out so they aren't the reason a team loses. And I'm not talking about the type of crap I've heard where someone is upset with legit calls, I'm talking crappy, garbage and obviously bad calls that do a little more than back a team up 5 yards.

 

[WoodysGirl]

How about the league starts hiring full time guys with a little youth to do the job.

These old *** part timers just aren't cutting it.

There is absolutely no excuse why a BILLION dollar entity puts up with the results that are on display each and every week.

Pay these guys a salary they can live off of (nothing absurd but a full time salary) and have them spend time getting things right before they go onto the field.

Offseason, preseason, regular season, post season, these guys need to spend as much time as they can getting it all figured out so they aren't the reason a team loses. And I'm not talking about the type of crap I've heard where someone is upset with legit calls, I'm talking crappy, garbage and obviously bad calls that do a little more than back a team up 5 yards.

Officials are graded after each game and after the season, I'm sure some are let go. What people don't know by the time an official reaches the NFL level, they've probably already been officiating for 10+ years.

I ask this every time. What would they do the other six or seven months of the year?

There's no need for full-time football officials...unless they work other similar NFL-type leagues, such as AFL, etc. Even then the rules and mechanics are different, so that has to be taken into consideration.

I'm sure that NFL officiating training includes several offseason referee clinics and coaching clinics. Those can last 3-7 days.

I'm sorry, the league just can't justify the cost of having folks sit around on their thumbs for at least six months a year studying a rule book.

 

[TheCount]

You couldnt be more wrong. The technology is actually the easy part.

If this isnt implemented by 2012 I would be suprised.
I actually think it will or should happen sooner.

I'd like to hear about the technology then, by all means, as well as how it would be implemented into a football without players having to relearn how to throw the thing.

And why 2012? Is that when the union contract expires?

 

[Brian_C82]

It should be possible to use a detection system similar to the anti-shoplifting (EAS) detectors you see in retail stores. The Acousto-Magnetic System, in particular, sounds like it might work. One would simply have to bury an array of highly directional rf transmitters and receivers at the edge of the endzone. The inside of the football would be coated with strips of magnetostrictive material along with the necessary bias magnets.

 

[masomenos]

How about this...

Bury a detection able under the endzone, like the ones that you can buy to use as invisible fences for pets. When fans come into the stadium, pass out commemorative "bracelets". Place magnetic strips on the inside of the ball, so that it triggers the bracelets whenever the ball crosses the goal line. Of course you'd have different bracelets for fans of different teams, so they were only shocked when the other team scored.

I think it would really give new meaning to the idea of feeling the pain of your teams loss.

 

[TheCount]

It should be possible to use a detection system similar to the anti-shoplifting (EAS) detectors you see in retail stores. The Acousto-Magnetic System, in particular, sounds like it might work. One would simply have to bury an array of highly directional rf transmitters and receivers at the edge of the endzone. The inside of the football would be coated with strips of magnetostrictive material along with the necessary bias magnets.

That is actually very cool, I just don't know how precise it is. Thanks for the link.

For the NFL to get employ a system like this, there would have to be a clear advantage to using that instead of the human eye and replays OR they would simply have to say, unless the alarm goes off, it's not a TD, despite whether or not it LOOKS like it crossed the line. Which is possible, I suppose.

 

[LittleBoyBlue]

I'd like to hear about the technology then, by all means, as well as how it would be implemented into a football without players having to relearn how to throw the thing.

And why 2012? Is that when the union contract expires?

Am I going to claim to know the exact technology? No

Is it one of the easier things to accomplish as we go forward? Absolutely.

As we go forward in this technology world... all will be possible.

Your concerns about the ball and how it may be different are valid concerns.... but just minor bumps in the road.



I say 2012 just because it SHOULD be sooner... but the unreasonable man and money and politics and blah blah blah usually delays advancement or change. People fear/hate change.