PFW Draft notes- offense

[dbair1967]

As fyi, the first two draft guides are out (PFW and Lindy's) I picked up both, but really havent read everything in Lindy's yet. Seems like they're in agreement or close on most guys, though there are some exceptions (ie, PFW really doesnt like A Cason and rates him as the 17th best CB, but Lindy's has him the 2nd rated CB)...more on that later...I'm quite sure some will take exception (especially where certain "pet" players are critiqued) but I figured some would like to see some info...if there are other players you want to see comments on, let me know...otherwise here's some highs and lows of various guys:

QB's- they have Ryan 1 and Henne 2..on Brohm "marginal athlete with a pop gun arm" though they do rate him 3rd...Brennan they rate 10th "overrated product of JuneJones system and will struggle to adapt to an NFL playbook"

RB's:

McFadden is #1 and they love him, there's also a complete artivle on him with very positive quots from Mike Ditka and Eric Dickerson...on McFadden "surprisngly strong for how lean he is, well built with strong upper body and poweful stiff arm. Good vision shows explosion and accelaration to take away angles, will dip shoulder and drive through contact, good versaility. Will force defenses to stack the box to stop him. The main negative was thin lower legs and the questionable things off the field.

They had Stewart and Mendenhall 2&3 with similar positives and negatives on both...both built well with good straight line speed, run with power, versatile...the main negative on both is that they both come from a spread option offense which created wide running lanes (IMO this is a real issue, as I dont know of any offensive skill player who's come from that style system and had great production in the NFL)...it does appear they like Stewart somehwat more than Menedehall, as the list of negatives with him went alot longer...Felix Jones they had 4, concerns were the overall size and that he liked to bounce outside alot, but they love his instincts, vision and balance, says he can string together moves and hits creases quickly..called him a dynamic change of pace back with game breaking ability

They had Tashard Choice 5 and really like him "a winner" they say about him, said he could be tremendous value if he lasts till the middle rounds

they note very similar negatives for Matt Forte, Kevin Smith and Chris Johnson, that all have over inflated numbers due to poor competition (I looked up the game logs of Johnson and Forte, and both ran up some big games against very poor teams, but when they played vs better teams niether did much of anything). They do mention the possibility that Chris Johnson could be moved to WR...

they have Steve Slaton rated 14th as fyi

no surprise at FB, Owen Schmidt is #1, but Payton Hillis is rated behind Lex Hilliard from Montana and Carl Stewart of Auburn (as well as a kid from Furman)

at WR, they have Manningham 1, Sweed 2 (who they like alot) Kelly 3 and D Jackson 4...on jackson, they say he is too slight framed and struggles to beat jams...E Doucet is 7 after D Thomas and Nelson..Hardy is 8th and the summary includes comments about how he performed poorly vs the better CB's in the Big 10

not sure if anyone cares about OL's or not...defensive players in a seperate thread.

David

 

[CalCBFan]

Thanks alot. I enjoyed your encapsulation of the guides...

 

[Paniolo22]

Have they taken the combine into account before writing this? Manningham at #1? Come on.

 

[CrazyCowboy]

great recap....thanks for sharing.

I believe DMac will make us sick each time we watch him play.....he is a special player

 

[speedkilz88]

Have they taken the combine into account before writing this? Manningham at #1? Come on.

They had to have gone to press before the combine. Which is a big mistake these publications make imo, but they all want to be the first out trying to get the early buck.

 

[ThatsmyQB]

They had to have gone to press before the combine. Which is a big mistake these publications make imo, but they all want to be the first out trying to get the early buck.

Actually I'd rather see where everyone is ranked PRIOR to the combines, cause so many people move guys up (mike mamula) and down (anquan Boldin 4.78 40 time) based on 40 times and bench presses and NOT on GAME FILM where they should be rated!
Scouts and most board rooms have their board and prospects ranked prior to the combine, and they really only use the combine to seperate the closely ranked players, meaning if they have two players simarlarly (Sp?) ranked, they'll use the combine results to take the one who works out better, but they don't take a guy ranked 10th and move him up to 4th cause he runs a 4.27 40 time, and vice versa, most scouts say the combine only is used to seperate guys at the same position who are ranked closely together.

Manningham ran slower than expected, BUT he's FAST on film and he has FOOTBALL SPEED, we all kno Jerry Rice 4.7, Irvin ran a 4.6, Boldin like I said a PATHETIC 4.78 yet these are ALL WORLD HALL OF FAMERS or pro-bowlers, so 40 speed STRAIGHTLINE SPEED (which is rare in football) vs. football speed while having to cut on a dime and keep running fast in and out of breaks and having football speed with the pads on, so don't use the combine numbers to get overwhelmed with a guy (mike Mamula) and don't use it to lower a guy (Boldin 4.78) or Manningham!
If they were ranked #1 prior to the combine, there was a REASON for that, FILM!

 

[speedkilz88]

Actually I'd rather see where everyone is ranked PRIOR to the combines, cause so many people move guys up (mike mamula) and down (anquan Boldin 4.78 40 time) based on 40 times and bench presses and NOT on GAME FILM where they should be rated!
Scouts and most board rooms have their board and prospects ranked prior to the combine, and they really only use the combine to seperate the closely ranked players, meaning if they have two players simarlarly (Sp?) ranked, they'll use the combine results to take the one who works out better, but they don't take a guy ranked 10th and move him up to 4th cause he runs a 4.27 40 time, and vice versa, most scouts say the combine only is used to seperate guys at the same position who are ranked closely together.

Manningham ran slower than expected, BUT he's FAST on film and he has FOOTBALL SPEED, we all kno Jerry Rice 4.7, Irvin ran a 4.6, Boldin like I said a PATHETIC 4.78 yet these are ALL WORLD HALL OF FAMERS or pro-bowlers, so 40 speed STRAIGHTLINE SPEED (which is rare in football) vs. football speed while having to cut on a dime and keep running fast in and out of breaks and having football speed with the pads on, so don't use the combine numbers to get overwhelmed with a guy (mike Mamula) and don't use it to lower a guy (Boldin 4.78) or Manningham!
If they were ranked #1 prior to the combine, there was a REASON for that, FILM!

Not relying on the combine is as dumb as relying soley on the combine. You have to separate productive players with their strength, speed, and agility so that you don't end up with a guy who can't adjust to jump in physical ability. If you ever checked out the mags that come out early they are always a joke when it comes to ranking guys.

 

[ThatsmyQB]

Not relying on the combine is as dumb as relying soley on the combine.

I NEVER SAID DON'T RELY ON IT OR SOLELY RELY ON IT!!!!

You have to separate productive players with their strength, speed, and agility so that you don't end up with a guy who can't adjust to jump in physical ability.

Which you can see on FILM if he can jump for the ball or not!
I'd much rather see film on a guy jumping with the ball in the air then in shorts getting to a 1-2-3 then jump standing still at the combine!

If you ever checked out the mags that come out early they are always a joke when it comes to ranking guys.

Not saying they arent', just sayign scouts themselves only put little stock inthe combine, much less then us fans do!

 

[speedkilz88]

I NEVER SAID DON'T RELY ON IT OR SOLELY RELY ON IT!!!!





Which you can see on FILM if he can jump for the ball or not!
I'd much rather see film on a guy jumping with the ball in the air then in shorts getting to a 1-2-3 then jump standing still at the combine!




Not saying they arent', just sayign scouts themselves only put little stock inthe combine, much less then us fans do!

I wasn't talking about jumping ability dude. Jump in competition from college to the pros, just because a guy can beat 4.6 corners in college doesn't mean he can be a deep threat in the nfl against guys that run a 4.3; kind of like that.

And those magazines are ranking guys soley without the combine results so yes you were saying that and those guys aren't really scouts. The real scouts have stopwatches for some odd reason.

 

[zrinkill]

D Jackson 4...on jackson, they say he is too slight framed and struggles to beat jams..

Hmmmm

 

[big dog cowboy]

I believe DMac will make us sick each time we watch him play.....he is a special player

You can't get everybody CC.

 

[Bizwah]

Actually I'd rather see where everyone is ranked PRIOR to the combines, cause so many people move guys up (mike mamula) and down (anquan Boldin 4.78 40 time) based on 40 times and bench presses and NOT on GAME FILM where they should be rated!
Scouts and most board rooms have their board and prospects ranked prior to the combine, and they really only use the combine to seperate the closely ranked players, meaning if they have two players simarlarly (Sp?) ranked, they'll use the combine results to take the one who works out better, but they don't take a guy ranked 10th and move him up to 4th cause he runs a 4.27 40 time, and vice versa, most scouts say the combine only is used to seperate guys at the same position who are ranked closely together.

Manningham ran slower than expected, BUT he's FAST on film and he has FOOTBALL SPEED, we all kno Jerry Rice 4.7, Irvin ran a 4.6, Boldin like I said a PATHETIC 4.78 yet these are ALL WORLD HALL OF FAMERS or pro-bowlers, so 40 speed STRAIGHTLINE SPEED (which is rare in football) vs. football speed while having to cut on a dime and keep running fast in and out of breaks and having football speed with the pads on, so don't use the combine numbers to get overwhelmed with a guy (mike Mamula) and don't use it to lower a guy (Boldin 4.78) or Manningham!
If they were ranked #1 prior to the combine, there was a REASON for that, FILM!

Rice was more of a 4.5 or 4.6 IIRC. Irvin was a 4.5 guy according to Tom Landry (who drafted him).

But you really can't compare a guy like Manningham, and his lack of speed, to Rice, Irvin, and Boldin,

Why?

Look at the sizes.

Manningham is what? 5-11 180?

Rice was 6-2 200-210 pounds
Irvin was 6-2 200-210 pounds
Boldin is 6-1 220 pounds.

HUGE difference. If you're big and strong, then you can carry pads better, you can beat the jam easier.

Manningham isn't just slow (relatively speaking), he's smallish.....I think that's what will scare most teams. That coupled with his minor character issues (problems with coaches, IIRC).

 

[Teague31]

how can they knock stewart and mendenhall for playing in the spread and not mcfadden? have you ever watched an arkansas game? hell, he was lined up at QB for half the snaps.