Pittsburgh Pass Defense

[DaBoys4Life]

Well, Watkins can be pretty decent too, but he can't cover very well (personally, I think he's worse than the much maligned Roy Williams at coverage).

Also we're getting back Newman who is pretty good as well. And I think Jenkins has the talent, it's just that he's a rookie.

I wouldn't count on Jenkins being able to count to three....he's in my dog house and I don't think anything he can do as long as he's a member of the dallas cowboys will get him out of it. Watkins is a pretty decent tackler he does seem to struggle in coverage....however I think the most useless person is Hamlin he's terrible and we shouldn't have paid him. I'd rather go with Williams and Watkins than any combination of Hamlin and someone else.

Newman, Scandrick RW and Watkins might be our best group of guys. Davis sucks Hamlin sucks Henry sucks Balls sucks Jenkis blowsssssssssssssss!!!!!!!!! but yeah Oh I forget Brown but he isn't even in the equation he is like Jenkins don't want to tackle they could but be cut next week and I could care less.

 

[Temo]

I wouldn't count on Jenkins being able to count to three....he's in my dog house and I don't think anything he can do as long as he's a member of the dallas cowboys will get him out of it. Watkins is a pretty decent tackler he does seem to struggle in coverage....however I think the most useless person is Hamlin he's terrible and we shouldn't have paid him. I'd rather go with Williams and Watkins than any combination of Hamlin and someone else.

Newman, Scandrick RW and Watkins might be our best group of guys. Davis sucks Hamlin sucks Henry sucks Balls sucks Jenkis blowsssssssssssssss!!!!!!!!! but yeah Oh I forget Brown but he isn't even in the equation he is like Jenkins don't want to tackle they could but be cut next week and I could care less.

Hamlin has been one of the few guys (along with Newman) who hasn't consistently blown assignments this year. Again, the simplification of the defense has seemed to cut down on the number of mental mistakes in the secondary.

As for Jenkins, I really think people need to give him more time. Cornerback, after QB and along with DT and Center, is one of the tougher positions to make the transition from College to the pros.

That being said, it does seem fairly obvious that Scandrick is the one who is further along of the two rookies.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

Good thread and good posting, Temo.

I've noticed the same kind of idea with the Giants. If you're going to zone blitz and leave an area with fewer defenders, you have to tackle well. The idea of forcing the QB to go to his hot read quickly won't work if you can't get the receiver on the ground right away when he does catch it. For the most part, the Steelers and the Giants do that really well.

At least Scandrick and even Ball seem like willing tacklers. Jenkins maybe not so much. And I think Courtney Brown is a real liability in this area because he doesn't seem interested in contact at all most of the time.

 

[DaBoys4Life]

Hamlin has been one of the few guys (along with Newman) who hasn't consistently blown assignments this year. Again, the simplification of the defense has seemed to cut down on the number of mental mistakes in the secondary.

As for Jenkins, I really think people need to give him more time. Cornerback, after QB and along with DT and Center, is one of the tougher positions to make the transition from College to the pros.

That being said, it does seem fairly obvious that Scandrick is the one who is further along of the two rookies.

I don't need to see anymore for Jenkins. Hamlin hasn't been good at all ever since he's gotten paid he's play has just fallen off. He not the same as last year.

 

[DaBoys4Life]

Good thread and good posting, Temo.

I've noticed the same kind of idea with the Giants. If you're going to zone blitz and leave an area with fewer defenders, you have to tackle well. The idea of forcing the QB to go to his hot read quickly won't work if you can't get the receiver on the ground right away when he does catch it. For the most part, the Steelers and the Giants do that really well.

At least Scandrick and even Ball seem like willing tacklers. Jenkins maybe not so much. And I think Courtney Brown is a real liability in this area because he doesn't seem interested in contact at all most of the time.

I think Brown Proctor Carpenter and Jenkins are the softest guys on the team.

 

[Temo]

Good thread and good posting, Temo.

I've noticed the same kind of idea with the Giants. If you're going to zone blitz and leave an area with fewer defenders, you have to tackle well. The idea of forcing the QB to go to his hot read quickly won't work if you can't get the receiver on the ground right away when he does catch it. For the most part, the Steelers and the Giants do that really well.

At least Scandrick and even Ball seem like willing tacklers. Jenkins maybe not so much. And I think Courtney Brown is a real liability in this area because he doesn't seem interested in contact at all most of the time.

Courtney Brown is almost the definition of a JAG (a term many posters here have taken a liking to since Parcells used it). He's going to be a liability most of the time he's out there.

But yea, for a guy who's a fringe player, he sure seems pretty soft. Most of those guys are willing to lay their bodies on the line to secure a roster spot and he doesn't seem to be that sort. This is the kind of the guy Parcells would be cutting several times a season to keep the bottom of the roster churning. Of all the exaggerations about Wade Phillip's "softness" that get tossed around, I do think Phillip's excessive loyalty to his players has been a hindrance in getting these types of players to perform.

 

[Temo]

I don't need to see anymore for Jenkins. Hamlin hasn't been good at all ever since he's gotten paid he's play has just fallen off. He not the same as last year.

We'll just have to agree to disagree on Jenkins then. I just don't see his failings as a tackler as a problem of reluctance (one bad play during a blowout against the Giants doesn't count), but rather one of a lack of experience.

Early in the season he was just taking bad angles and not reacting fast enough to the ball. He's already fixed some of those problems (the way he read Manning, a 5 year NFL vet, on that pick was a positive sign).

And, as a graduate of a Big East school, let me assure you-- the class of football he played against in college is nothing compared to professional football. In fact, it's not even close to SEC level football.

Edit: And yes, I do recognize that Scandrick is the more polished of the two even though he played at Boise State, which probably played even weaker opponents than South Florida. But I views that more as a mark FOR Scandrick than against Jenkins.

 

[Rack]

Good thread and good posting, Temo.

Except he left out some important facts.

 

[Idgit]

Good thread. A healthy Newman gives us a lot of options in coverage that we haven't been able to take advantage of all year. Henry plays off b/c the defense routes the WR inside and he's a player who's benefitted from being able to look in at the QB with the ball in front of him. For whatever reason, he doesn't appear to be able to break on the ball the way he has in previous seasons. Having your top cover corner out and playing against 3 step drops will hurt your pass rush. I'm not so sure Ellis is the problem, but it's a great sign for this defense if Spencer comes in and gives us a third (second, depending on your point of view) impact rusher.

Maybe it's a result of coaching, or of having replacements for your season-opening starters in the secondary at 3 positions, but poor tackling in the secondary and on coverage teams has been really frustrating.

 

[dfense]

We can probably agree that Pittsburgh's Pass defense is top-5 in the league.

Well I was watching them play against the Colts this week and noticed that their corners are always playing 5-10 yards off the WRs (and up close to the slot receivers).

The difference between the Steelers and Cowboys, however, was that Pittsburgh would not let the Colts get ANY yards after catch. I mean they were hitting people in the mouth right after they caught the ball. And not just the corners/safties either (though they are all really good tacklers), but the Linebackers and even the DEFENSIVE LINEMAN.

Sure, the D-Lineman might be late to the receiver, but they were all surging to the ball where-ever it was caught.

Also, their pass rush helps (though Manning was vintage Manning today, and didn't take a lot of pressure).

I guess I'm just offering this as something to think about, whenever you choose to next complain about "soft zones". There's pro's and con's of ever coverage scheme. Zone pass defense isn't meant to cause a lot of incompletions (though obviously if you're good, you can cause a lot anyway), but rather to limit YAC and get INTs (it's easier to get picks in zone than in Man, since you can read the QB better).

It's all in the execution. You generally need smarter and more disciplined people to play zone than Man coverage. And frankly, the secondary has played much, much better zone the last two games since Wade simplified the defense (there were a LOT of blown assignments before).

I'll tell you the difference. Watch Palomalu play man to man. He's got to be one of the best cover/hitting safeties around. A SS that can cover.

I'm getting sick of watching Courtney Brown stand around in pass coverage.

 

[CanadianCowboysFan]

That secondary can play 15 yards off and they would still be better then us. They bring the pressure. Dont ever compare the two defensies untill we prove otherswise.

end of story.

but imagine the reaction here IF we blew a 17-7 second half lead at home?

 

[gimmesix]

I guess I'm just offering this as something to think about, whenever you choose to next complain about "soft zones".

Our problem isn't playing zone, it's not being very good at it. When we use zone defenses, our defensive backs are too often confused and pointing fingers after plays. This is either the result of not having smart defensive backs or good coaching at the position. I lean toward our DBs being dumb ... except for maybe Scandrick, which is why he's earned more time in the slot. But good coaching would recognize the troubles we're having and play more to the players' strengths.

 

[Temo]

Our problem isn't playing zone, it's not being very good at it. When we use zone defenses, our defensive backs are too often confused and pointing fingers after plays. This is either the result of not having smart defensive backs or good coaching at the position. I lean toward our DBs being dumb ... except for maybe Scandrick, which is why he's earned more time in the slot. But good coaching would recognize the troubles we're having and play more to the players' strengths.

I agree. But this has improved the last two games. Especially against Tampa bay, guys seemed really in sync with each other. Another reason I have a problem with Dave Campo's coaching this season. It should not take 8 games and a simplified defense to get guys on the same page.

 

[Temo]

I'll tell you the difference. Watch Palomalu play man to man. He's got to be one of the best cover/hitting safeties around. A SS that can cover.

I'm getting sick of watching Courtney Brown stand around in pass coverage.

I confess, this is the only game I've watched the Steelers carefully (saw parts of the Eagles and Commanders games). However, it seemed to me that Polamalu plays a very fluid role in the defense. Sometimes he blitz, sometimes he fakes the blitz, he moves around a lot, and when he's in pass defense he looks like he mostly plays the ball and/or reads the QB.

It doesn't appear that he's playing Man coverage very often. Though I could be mistaken.

 

[Temo]

Good thread. A healthy Newman gives us a lot of options in coverage that we haven't been able to take advantage of all year. Henry plays off b/c the defense routes the WR inside and he's a player who's benefitted from being able to look in at the QB with the ball in front of him. For whatever reason, he doesn't appear to be able to break on the ball the way he has in previous seasons. Having your top cover corner out and playing against 3 step drops will hurt your pass rush. I'm not so sure Ellis is the problem, but it's a great sign for this defense if Spencer comes in and gives us a third (second, depending on your point of view) impact rusher.

Maybe it's a result of coaching, or of having replacements for your season-opening starters in the secondary at 3 positions, but poor tackling in the secondary and on coverage teams has been really frustrating.

Ellis just doesn't seem to go hard every play anymore... I don't know if it's he's just tired and is not a 3 down player anymore, or it's a mental thing. But he looks hesitant and slow on at least 50% of the snaps he plays. Plus he gets pushed around easily on running plays. He does have a leadership role on that defense however, so I'd be hesitant to bench him or do something like that. But taking him off the field for a few drives/plays would be a start.

Also, that's a great sig

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Hamlin is the only decent tackler we have had healthy in the secondary (Newman is good but injured, Henry has looked old, and Scandrick is looking good so far, but need to see more... Jenkins has at least progressed from an awful tackler to an average one).

he's healthy, that's about it

 

[thekavorka]

it's also frustrating to see us line 10 yards off the line of scrimmage when it's 3rd and 3 or 3rd and 4.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

it's also frustrating to see us line 10 yards off the line of scrimmage when it's 3rd and 3 or 3rd and 4.

and in the redzone esp.

 

[Temo]

it's also frustrating to see us line 10 yards off the line of scrimmage when it's 3rd and 3 or 3rd and 4.

Well, the idea there is to "bait" the throw, and make a play on the ball. I mean, a lot of those third and shorts aren't being converted on short hitches or anything like that (some, sure, but not all).

Of course, playing 10 yards off is kinda crazy, but 5 yards is a pretty fair position on third and short. Keeping in mind that the CB should always be looking at the QB first, and the receiver second, this also helps the run game on any runs to the outside.

Again, I must make the caveat that this is all how the "scheme" is supposed to work. Execution is a whole different matter (and to be, the coaching staff is actually more responsible for the execution than the scheme, considering that most schemes in the NFL are not "unique" anymore).

 

[Rack]

Well, the idea there is to "bait" the throw, and make a play on the ball.