Positional importance

[kskboys]

I'd probably take Vea over Ramsey if it means we also get Diggs. Vea and Diggs are would be so deadly that a team would have two bad options to choose.

A common super bowl formula is great DLine, average CBs.

 

[kskboys]

I get that. I think NT is significantly underrated. The reason is because fans don't understand their role. Their primary role is to stuff the run and plug the hole on passing plays to keep the QB from running. Mark Holmes talks a lot about it on his channel.

And collapse the pocket, which magnifies the effect of the pass rushers monumentally.

 

[kskboys]

Ummmmmm. Their QB and star WR disagree

No, they don't. Ask any players around the NFL and they'll tell you the importance of the trenches. Both sides of the ball.

From Tom Brady's mouth: Pressure up the middle is the worst kind.

 

[kskboys]

Just spit balling here @RustyBourneHorse ...
I read a list of the top 8 NT in the league and their name recognition isn't close to the top DT's outside of Vea. The teams, in order, are... Packers, Tampa, Denver, Minny, Detroit, Chargers, Pitts, Raiders. None of them did much in the playoffs outside of Tampa, but I admit I'm reaching. Just don't think of Jon Hankins,Sebastian Joseph Day, Dalvin Tomlinson and Alim McNiell as game changers. But I do look at Aaron Donald, Fletcher Cox, Chris Jones, Jonathan Allen, DeForest Buckner as household names.
Please respond but I see NT as more of a specialty position. Especially since all 8 listed are on 3-4 teams which Dallas doesn't run anyway.
Fire away brother. Not trying to be a jerk so I hope you don't take it that way. Just discussing

Name recognition is irrelevant. Is that what you're using to analyze? Name recognition?

 

[kskboys]

Let me go do a little reading. I lived in NJ and got tons of Eagles news and I know they didn't have a NT in there SB. Be patient with me cause I'm not the type to pound my chest on how correct I am. I can take an "L" on a message board! Let me get a little more educated on NTs before I claim I'm right or wrong. Cool brother?

Tim Jernigan. Not a great player, but very solid and a nice build for NT. They also had big boy Beau Allen who played quite a bit.

 

[Typhus]

For this team positional importance, not based on need, strictly importance in the present moment.
May be different than most.
QB
LB/Edge,, can I include LB with edge rusher?
Left Tackle
LB
DB... can I include DB as safety or corner?

This is an interesting thread because it shows how Q is trying to transform this D with Players like Parsons, a hopeful Williams that can mirror Parsons.
Improved overall depth possibly at safety, if we see improvement thats great, but at the very least we have some vet understanding of the Qs system already.
When you look at the LB/edge rush, and the DB group, its going to stress out some offensive coords when this Defense can transition pre snap on the fly, and
show an entirely different look.
I left out WR and RB, because if Im ranking the QB number 1, they should be able to make a few WR2s and RB2s look formidable.

 

[Aerolithe_Lion]

1. Quarterback, easy

2. Pass rush is hard here, because QB protection and breaking down opponent’s QB protection very much go hand in hand. A lot of strong pass rushers on crummy teams don’t really do anything, like Jason Taylor in Miami or JJ Watt in Houston, or Von Miller in Denver the last half decade. Did it really matter they had a great guy on their Dline in the grand scheme of their awful season results? But conversely, a strong Oline on a crummy team will elevate the QB play and they’ll be less crummy.

So I would say a good Oline is more valuable than a good Dline, though that’s very important too, but individual players I think LT’s are a little overrated in today’s NFL, it’s more about the balance of the line… so a superstar DE is more valuable then a superstar at any other non-QB position. So I’ll go Defensive End

3. Left Tackle or Offensive line anchor player. Left tackle is traditionally important because it protects a right-handed QBs blindside, but teams today are putting their best pass rushers (like Demarcus Lawrence, Brandon Graham) on the other side because everyone loads up talent at the LT position. So in Philadelphia’s case, Lane Johnson is often going against the best pass rusher, and his value to us is nearly that of Mailata. But overall, when LT is struggling, QB is struggling.

This is where is gets complicated. Nothing past here is more important than more Offensive or Defensive line stars. So we could go…

4. 3-tech DT

5. Center

6. Right tackle

7. Nose Tackle

8. Second Defensive End

9. Free Safety

10. Wide Receiver

 

[Whirlwin]

Just looking to waste some time to get these next 55 days moving!

Most important position on the team. Middle linebacker number one, defensive tackle number to Centre number three left tackle number for. Strong safety five wide receiver six

 

[Whirlwin]

1. Quarterback, easy

2. Pass rush is hard here, because QB protection and breaking down opponent’s QB protection very much go hand in hand. A lot of strong pass rushers on crummy teams don’t really do anything, like Jason Taylor in Miami or JJ Watt in Houston, or Von Miller in Denver the last half decade. Did it really matter they had a great guy on their Dline in the grand scheme of their awful season results? But conversely, a strong Oline on a crummy team will elevate the QB play and they’ll be less crummy.

So I would say a good Oline is more valuable than a good Dline, though that’s very important too, but individual players I think LT’s are a little overrated in today’s NFL, it’s more about the balance of the line… so a superstar DE is more valuable then a superstar at any other non-QB position. So I’ll go Defensive End

3. Left Tackle or Offensive line anchor player. Left tackle is traditionally important because it protects a right-handed QBs blindside, but teams today are putting their best pass rushers (like Demarcus Lawrence, Brandon Graham) on the other side because everyone loads up talent at the LT position. So in Philadelphia’s case, Lane Johnson is often going against the best pass rusher, and his value to us is nearly that of Mailata. But overall, when LT is struggling, QB is struggling.

This is where is gets complicated. Nothing past here is more important than more Offensive or Defensive line stars. So we could go…

4. 3-tech DT

5. Center

6. Right tackle

7. Nose Tackle

8. Second Defensive End

9. Free Safety

10. Wide Receiver

I pretty much have the same thing except for I would start with the middle linebacker

 

[Whirlwin]

We had a nice thread going about how the NT has become a lot more important in todays NFL. Let's break it down by position and not unit because, for example, a 3-4 OLB is a lot more important then a 4-3 WLB and how a LT is more important then a RG. Positions (RB, FB, TE, LT, LG, C, RG, RT, WR1, WR2, QB, CB, S, WLB, MLB, SLB, (DE-3/4 OLB), DT, NT, K, P)
To save time most (not all) go:
1. QB
2. DE or 3/4 OLB
3. LT
4. CB
5. WR1

I did not see this thread when I just posted mine. Sorry

 

[Aerolithe_Lion]

I pretty much have the same thing except for I would start with the middle linebacker

I was thinking about MLB, but in recent history Free Safeties on championship teams have been more prominent than MLB’s, so I went with the trend

 

[Typhus]

1. Quarterback, easy

2. Pass rush is hard here, because QB protection and breaking down opponent’s QB protection very much go hand in hand. A lot of strong pass rushers on crummy teams don’t really do anything, like Jason Taylor in Miami or JJ Watt in Houston, or Von Miller in Denver the last half decade. Did it really matter they had a great guy on their Dline in the grand scheme of their awful season results? But conversely, a strong Oline on a crummy team will elevate the QB play and they’ll be less crummy.

So I would say a good Oline is more valuable than a good Dline, though that’s very important too, but individual players I think LT’s are a little overrated in today’s NFL, it’s more about the balance of the line… so a superstar DE is more valuable then a superstar at any other non-QB position. So I’ll go Defensive End

3. Left Tackle or Offensive line anchor player. Left tackle is traditionally important because it protects a right-handed QBs blindside, but teams today are putting their best pass rushers (like Demarcus Lawrence, Brandon Graham) on the other side because everyone loads up talent at the LT position. So in Philadelphia’s case, Lane Johnson is often going against the best pass rusher, and his value to us is nearly that of Mailata. But overall, when LT is struggling, QB is struggling.

This is where is gets complicated. Nothing past here is more important than more Offensive or Defensive line stars. So we could go…

4. 3-tech DT

5. Center

6. Right tackle

7. Nose Tackle

8. Second Defensive End

9. Free Safety

10. Wide Receiver

You were only allowed 5, quit breaking the rules.

 

[kskboys]

1. Quarterback, easy

2. Pass rush is hard here, because QB protection and breaking down opponent’s QB protection very much go hand in hand. A lot of strong pass rushers on crummy teams don’t really do anything, like Jason Taylor in Miami or JJ Watt in Houston, or Von Miller in Denver the last half decade. Did it really matter they had a great guy on their Dline in the grand scheme of their awful season results? But conversely, a strong Oline on a crummy team will elevate the QB play and they’ll be less crummy.

So I would say a good Oline is more valuable than a good Dline, though that’s very important too, but individual players I think LT’s are a little overrated in today’s NFL, it’s more about the balance of the line… so a superstar DE is more valuable then a superstar at any other non-QB position. So I’ll go Defensive End

3. Left Tackle or Offensive line anchor player. Left tackle is traditionally important because it protects a right-handed QBs blindside, but teams today are putting their best pass rushers (like Demarcus Lawrence, Brandon Graham) on the other side because everyone loads up talent at the LT position. So in Philadelphia’s case, Lane Johnson is often going against the best pass rusher, and his value to us is nearly that of Mailata. But overall, when LT is struggling, QB is struggling.

This is where is gets complicated. Nothing past here is more important than more Offensive or Defensive line stars. So we could go…

4. 3-tech DT

5. Center

6. Right tackle

7. Nose Tackle

8. Second Defensive End

9. Free Safety

10. Wide Receiver

Nicely done.

Looking at most teams that are perennial contenders, those are the positions they take care of.

 

[plasticman]

It's difficult for me to think of LT as the 2nd most important position on offense. I think #1 and #2 would have to be scoring positions.

Back in the 70's it would have been completely different. RB would have been #2, perhaps even #1. However, with such prolific scoring as well as rules to increase the importance of passing, it has to be QB at #1, WR at #2.

Is LT really a top 3? I would suggest that TE play a very critical and diverse role in today's NFL.

As far as the defense you need someone to disrupt the passer and you need someone to harass the receiver. Again, in the 70's you had to get a DT that could clog the line and you needed the MLB to stop the run.

Today you need a CB and DE at #1and #2 respectively.

 

[kskboys]

If your DLine cannot stop the run and disrupt the pocket, who you have at CB is irrelevant. The DLine in general is the most important part of a D, and it must be complete.

SEA's stellar D was due in large part to a completely dominant DLine and starter quality backups at DT. When Carroll let those guys walk, that D fell apart almost immediately.

It's the strangest thing, how NFL coaches who are supposedly masters at this game don't always understand what made them good/great.

 

[SuperBowlz]

Tim Jernigan. Not a great player, but very solid and a nice build for NT. They also had big boy Beau Allen who played quite a bit.

I stand corrected and Beau Allen got a nice deal for like 20 something million. He was solid that year but I do remember him. He didn't play that well after he left Philly but that nice year got him generational wealth for his family and did play well that year. I remember that.

 

[kskboys]

I stand corrected and Beau Allen got a nice deal for like 20 something million. He was solid that year but I do remember him. He didn't play that well after he left Philly but that nice year got him generational wealth for his family and did play well that year. I remember that.

Philly's D was 4th that year, #1 vs the run. Prolly the most important factor in the super bowl win. Their D completely squushed ATL and MINNY in the playoffs. Philly never gets to the super bowl w/o a stellar D performance vs ATL in the first round. Held them to 10 pts, as Foles was only able to muster 15. ATL's O was 8th that year, not some pincussion.

 

[SuperBowlz]

Good discussion fellas. Some I agree with and some I don't. But the best point made was "importance can be the teams scheme"
I think if we went by importance on how they get paid on average by each position might show what the GMs might value the most. Or am I flawed in that thinking.

 

[SuperBowlz]

Philly's D was 4th that year, #1 vs the run. Prolly the most important factor in the super bowl win. Their D completely squushed ATL and MINNY in the playoffs. Philly never gets to the super bowl w/o a stellar D performance vs ATL in the first round. Held them to 10 pts, as Foles was only able to muster 15. ATL's O was 8th that year, not some pincussion.

man... then that horrific display of Defense in there one lone SB win! Wasn't that game like 77 to 75

 

[SuperBowlz]

Philly's D was 4th that year, #1 vs the run. Prolly the most important factor in the super bowl win. Their D completely squushed ATL and MINNY in the playoffs. Philly never gets to the super bowl w/o a stellar D performance vs ATL in the first round. Held them to 10 pts, as Foles was only able to muster 15. ATL's O was 8th that year, not some pincussion.

That team just gelled like no other. They had a bunch of really nice players but they weren't fantastic but they just came together like men and bonded... and won one that way. Just a few more to go to catch up to Dallas. Lol