Post-draft team analysis: OL

[DuncanIso]

Pass protection and run blocking aren't the same thing. Some players can be great at run blocking but poor at pass protection.

Really?!?

Did you make that up? Or did you just think it made sense?

 

[gimmesix]

Really?!?

Did you make that up? Or did you just think it made sense?

Not sure how I'm supposed to answer that.

You can't say because linemen can block well on running plays that it means they also block well in pass protection. If your point is that it's because Elliott is good and Dak is bad, that conclusion is impossible to draw from looking at different blocking abilities.

 

[buybuydandavis]

This is the way I see it also. Go 2 QB's, 3 TE's, as there is better talent to carry an extra DL and DB. Even LB I think they should carry only 6, seeing that only 2 on on the field for a significant about off ayers over having 3 out there.

This will also allow them to keep 7 WR's again if they choose.

At this point Rush adds nothing as the 3rd QB, and Rico offers nothing as the 4th TE's. with Witten back, rico's snap count goes way down. So can't justify keeping him, as he is not a factor anyway. They can develop McElroy on the PS.

After all, don't they always say the best 53. And right now, Rush and Rico are not in that top 53.

Rico made progress blocking last year. None of our TEs give much in short yardage blocking. If Rico sticks, that's what keeps him around.

 

[northerncowboynation]

Starters: Tyron Smith, Connor Williams, Travis Frederick, Zack Martin, La'el Collins
Contenders: Cameron Fleming, Connor McGovern, Xavier Sua-Filo, Joe Looney, Adam Redmond, Jake Campos, Cody Wichmann, Mitch Hyatt, Larry Allen Jr., Derrick Puni, Brandon Knight

The Cowboys gave up 59 sacks last year. The offensive line wasn't completely to blame — Paul Alexander, who was fired and replaced by Colombo, bears some of the responsibility as does Dak Prescott — but there were definitely some problems with the unit that is supposed to be one of the strengths of the team.

One of the problems obviously was Travis Frederick missing the season with Guillain-Barre syndrome. Joe Looney did an admirable job filling in for Frederick, but you don't lose an All-Pro without feeling the effects of it. Looney appears to actually be better than Frederick at pulling, but Frederick is stronger at the point of attack and, possibly even more important, we missed his ability to adjust the protection. Hopefully, he'll have made a full recovery and be back in the lineup, but it's good to know that Looney is at least a reliable backup.

Another issue was Tyron Smith's continuing problems with back tightness. He's had to miss games the past three seasons (three each year) and he didn't seem to be as dominant as he usually is (although the numbers don't support that.) Fortunately, Cameron Fleming proved to be a much more reliable backup than Chaz Green and Byron Bell. Since it can't be considered likely that Smith's back issues will get better, it's good that we re-signed Fleming. I do think it is a credit to Smith that he can still play as well as he has despite the ongoing issue.

The main weaknesses in pass protection (other than the line calls) was the left guard spot. Connor Williams gave up 4.5 sacks starting 10 games at left guard. Xavier Su'a-Filo gave up six in eight starts. (Right tackle La'el Collins gave up five in 16 starts. For comparison's sake, Looney was credited with one, Martin three, Smith zero, and Fleming 1.5 in three starts.) Williams' main problem was just size and power. He's technically very sound, but big DL would just knock him back or walk him back. However, he did handle that better when he returned to the starting lineup and he has put on muscle this offseason. Su'a-Filo has to be considered to be what he's going to be at this point in his career. The sack numbers were consistent with his previous two years in Houston. His power advantage over Williams helped the run game, but his struggles with technique in pass protection got him beat multiple times.

At right tackle, Collins is maligned on here because he's simply OK, instead of being great. He's an average starter in the league, which likely means that he'll leave in free agency next year because he'll look to get paid like he's better than average. That might not be a bad thing before Williams may be a better tackle than he is a guard. I don't know if Williams' strength deficiencies will ever completely go away, but he has good feet and uses good technique (which is where Collins struggles) that could make him a great fit at tackle, where he won't go up against as many powerful players as he did at guard. Drafting Connor McGovern could be a sign that Dallas is leaning that way, but the Cowboys also need better left guard play than it got last year, so he adds another option for that spot this year.

Although Dallas picked up some interesting UDFAs (Mitch Hyatt, Derrick Puni), it isn't likely there's going to be any room to carry them on the 53-man roster this year, unless one of them plays well enough to supplant Su'a-Filo. Adam Redmond would also be a contender for that roster spot, though.

ROSTER PREDICTION: We keep nine on the 53 (Smith, Williams, Frederick, Martin, Collins, Fleming, Su'a-Filo, Looney and McGovern) and the starting five remains the same as it was at the beginning and end of the season. I like the footage I've seen of Puni as a raw prospect and Hyatt appears to be at least fairly highly rated, so both of those could end up on the practice squad. Do we also try to get Larry Allen Jr. to fill out and become anything near what his father was?

Nice breakdown Gimme. getting back to the strength

 

[buybuydandavis]

That only means Williams, a rookie, wasn't ready to start when he was thrown in the fire. It doesn't mean Su'a-Filo was very good. He gave up six sacks in eight starts. I don't think that's the standard we want for our starting LG options. Williams gave up 4.5 in 10 starts, but again, he was just getting started. Su'a-Filo is what he is, which means we should want him to even get beat out for a backup role.

He deserves credit for coming in and bolstering the run game, but his pass protection was not good enough. Of course, some of that was on Dak for holding the ball too long.

I want Williams to compete at right tackle. I just don't know if the timing is right. If he's our best option at left guard, then we need to make sure he's the best left guard he can be this year.

He may be the best option at LG, but if he's not that much better than the next guy, you're not losing much.

Next year, it's McGovern at G and Williams at RT. So let's get them started this year at those positions.

 

[gimmesix]

He may be the best option at LG, but if he's not that much better than the next guy, you're not losing much.

Next year, it's McGovern at G and Williams at RT. So let's get them started this year at those positions.

That's the question. I think 4.5 sacks in 10 games is much better then 6-plus sacks in eight, so I do think we could be losing much to play Su'a-Filo at guard instead of Williams, especially since Williams was playing much better when he returned to the lineup to close the season and should improve even more.

Would be be losing much if Looney played guard? I don't know. It's hard to project that just because he played well at center, he would play well at guard. At center, he had to do some single blocking, but a lot of times was just help-blocking one of the guards. Would he have gotten knocked back or been worked around by some of those DTs Williams and Su'a-Filo faced? I know in previous years that Looney would have because we had seen him at guard and he wasn't that great, but he did make himself into a better player that offseason.

I also will continue to stand on my soapbox about counting on rookies. The plan may be for McGovern to eventually be the next starting left guard, but that doesn't mean he'll even prove worthy of making the roster. Plenty of third-round players haven't. We believe we got a steal but there are reasons he was still around in the third round. He may show that the concerns about him were unwarranted or he may just turn out to be a decent backup or a bust.

 

[Stash]

That's the question. I think 4.5 sacks in 10 games is much better then 6-plus sacks in eight, so I do think we could be losing much to play Su'a-Filo at guard instead of Williams, especially since Williams was playing much better when he returned to the lineup to close the season and should improve even more.

Would be be losing much if Looney played guard? I don't know. It's hard to project that just because he played well at center, he would play well at guard. At center, he had to do some single blocking, but a lot of times was just help-blocking one of the guards. Would he have gotten knocked back or been worked around by some of those DTs Williams and Su'a-Filo faced? I know in previous years that Looney would have because we had seen him at guard and he wasn't that great, but he did make himself into a better player that offseason.

I also will continue to stand on my soapbox about counting on rookies. The plan may be for McGovern to eventually be the next starting left guard, but that doesn't mean he'll even prove worthy of making the roster. Plenty of third-round players haven't. We believe we got a steal but there are reasons he was still around in the third round. He may show that the concerns about him were unwarranted or he may just turn out to be a decent backup or a bust.

It sounds like you’re overly down on Connor McGovern for some reason. Talking up Connor Williams’ play as a rookie - transitioning to guard - and talking down a guy who has played the interior extensively.

I’m not sure why.

 

[buybuydandavis]

That's the question. I think 4.5 sacks in 10 games is much better then 6-plus sacks in eight, so I do think we could be losing much to play Su'a-Filo at guard instead of Williams, especially since Williams was playing much better when he returned to the lineup to close the season and should improve even more.

Would be be losing much if Looney played guard? I don't know. It's hard to project that just because he played well at center, he would play well at guard. At center, he had to do some single blocking, but a lot of times was just help-blocking one of the guards. Would he have gotten knocked back or been worked around by some of those DTs Williams and Su'a-Filo faced? I know in previous years that Looney would have because we had seen him at guard and he wasn't that great, but he did make himself into a better player that offseason.

I also will continue to stand on my soapbox about counting on rookies. The plan may be for McGovern to eventually be the next starting left guard, but that doesn't mean he'll even prove worthy of making the roster. Plenty of third-round players haven't. We believe we got a steal but there are reasons he was still around in the third round. He may show that the concerns about him were unwarranted or he may just turn out to be a decent backup or a bust.

If you expect more depth than that at LG, you're going to live a life of disappointment. The evaluations I've seen of McGovern is that he is a day one starter. Looney started 16 games for us. SF started a bunch. Should be better with a full year in the system.

We've got 3 bites at the apple for a starter at LG. Count your blessings. I remember starting Bill Nagy at LG opening day in 2011.

 

[gimmesix]

It sounds like you’re overly down on Connor McGovern for some reason. Talking up Connor Williams’ play as a rookie - transitioning to guard - and talking down a guy who has played the interior extensively.

I’m not sure why.

I'm just trying to be realistic about it. We've seen Williams play at guard in the NFL. He had some issues, but seemed to be improved when he was reinserted in the lineup. He has put on some muscle, so he should be even better this year. Does that mean he's going to be great? I have no idea.

I have high hopes for McGovern as well, but right now, they are just hopes. Draft picks wash out in the NFL every year, so I don't rely on them until they show that they are reliable. Just thinking McGovern can step in and start as a rookie would be foolish. Doesn't mean we can't hope for it, just that we can't count on it.

 

[gimmesix]

If you expect more depth than that at LG, you're going to live a life of disappointment. The evaluations I've seen of McGovern is that he is a day one starter. Looney started 16 games for us. SF started a bunch. Should be better with a full year in the system.

We've got 3 bites at the apple for a starter at LG. Count your blessings. I remember starting Bill Nagy at LG opening day in 2011.

Evaluation doesn't mean anything. Taco Charlton should be a starting defensive end by now, but he's not and he was taken in the first round. Draft picks fail every day. McGovern could prove to be no better than Nagy. Or he could prove to be better than Williams. I prefer to wait and see.

Looney proved to be solid depth at center, and I'm happy with that. It doesn't mean we can project that he would be a solid starter at guard. Each position has different responsibilities

Su'a-Filo has some flaws that haven't been fixed in his five years in the league, so the six sacks he gave up in eight games is what we can probably expect to be his norm. He's not a bad backup, but he's not a good starter.

None of that should be taken as I'm not happy with the potential we have along the line. I'm just not one to count my chickens before they hatch. For what it's worth, one of the UDFAs could outplay all of them or Williams could take a step back and we have to go with the best of a flawed bunch (as far as starting options go).

I do believe out of Williams, McGovern and Looney, though, that we will find a solid starter at left guard, and it's possible that McGovern might be ready for that role as a rookie, allowing us to let Williams go ahead and make the move to right tackle. I simply can't say that that will happen, and I don't think we should move Williams until it does. I think right now (for the moment) we should have Williams just work on being the best left guard he can be.

 

[Stash]

I'm just trying to be realistic about it. We've seen Williams play at guard in the NFL. He had some issues, but seemed to be improved when he was reinserted in the lineup. He has put on some muscle, so he should be even better this year. Does that mean he's going to be great? I have no idea.

I have high hopes for McGovern as well, but right now, they are just hopes. Draft picks wash out in the NFL every year, so I don't rely on them until they show that they are reliable. Just thinking McGovern can step in and start as a rookie would be foolish. Doesn't mean we can't hope for it, just that we can't count on it.

And yet Wîlliams did exactly that last year. Transitioning to a position he hasn't played before. But only now it's "foolish"....

 

[Stash]

Evaluation doesn't mean anything. Taco Charlton should be a starting defensive end by now, but he's not and he was taken in the first round. Draft picks fail every day. McGovern could prove to be no better than Nagy. Or he could prove to be better than Williams. I prefer to wait and see.

Looney proved to be solid depth at center, and I'm happy with that. It doesn't mean we can project that he would be a solid starter at guard. Each position has different responsibilities

Su'a-Filo has some flaws that haven't been fixed in his five years in the league, so the six sacks he gave up in eight games is what we can probably expect to be his norm. He's not a bad backup, but he's not a good starter.

None of that should be taken as I'm not happy with the potential we have along the line. I'm just not one to count my chickens before they hatch. For what it's worth, one of the UDFAs could outplay all of them or Williams could take a step back and we have to go with the best of a flawed bunch (as far as starting options go).

I do believe out of Williams, McGovern and Looney, though, that we will find a solid starter at left guard, and it's possible that McGovern might be ready for that role as a rookie, allowing us to let Williams go ahead and make the move to right tackle. I simply can't say that that will happen, and I don't think we should move Williams until it does. I think right now (for the moment) we should have Williams just work on being the best left guard he can be.

You should tell the owner:

https://cowboyszone.com/threads/jerry-jones-says-connor-williams-might-cross-train-at-tackle.433287/

 

[buybuydandavis]

Evaluation doesn't mean anything. Taco Charlton should be a starting defensive end by now, but he's not and he was taken in the first round. Draft picks fail every day. McGovern could prove to be no better than Nagy. Or he could prove to be better than Williams. I prefer to wait and see.

Looney proved to be solid depth at center, and I'm happy with that. It doesn't mean we can project that he would be a solid starter at guard. Each position has different responsibilities

Su'a-Filo has some flaws that haven't been fixed in his five years in the league, so the six sacks he gave up in eight games is what we can probably expect to be his norm. He's not a bad backup, but he's not a good starter.

None of that should be taken as I'm not happy with the potential we have along the line. I'm just not one to count my chickens before they hatch. For what it's worth, one of the UDFAs could outplay all of them or Williams could take a step back and we have to go with the best of a flawed bunch (as far as starting options go).

I do believe out of Williams, McGovern and Looney, though, that we will find a solid starter at left guard, and it's possible that McGovern might be ready for that role as a rookie, allowing us to let Williams go ahead and make the move to right tackle. I simply can't say that that will happen, and I don't think we should move Williams until it does. I think right now (for the moment) we should have Williams just work on being the best left guard he can be.

Preparing to limit risk also limits opportunity. It's a trade off.

If we have a LG to backfill Williams, it's better to start as early as possible. Also, it would be better to find out if Williams isn't good at RT as early as possible.

 

[buybuydandavis]

And yet Wîlliams did exactly that last year. Transitioning to a position he hasn't played before. But only now it's "foolish"....

And Williams is transitioning *back* to a type of position he played through college.

Generally, a LT is a better fit at RT than LG, particularly if he is underpowered but has good feet. That's how you get put at T instead of G in the first place.

 

[Stash]

And Williams is transitioning *back* to a type of position he played through college.

Generally, a LT is a better fit at RT than LG, particularly if he is underpowered but has good feet. That's how you get put at T instead of G in the first place.

That's exactly my thinking. I'm surprised to see anyone so opposed to it. Given Collins coming off of shoulder surgery and expected to miss considerable offseason work, there's no better time to start giving Williams reps than now.

 

[buybuydandavis]

That's exactly my thinking. I'm surprised to see anyone so opposed to it. Given Collins coming off of shoulder surgery and expected to miss considerable offseason work, there's no better time to start giving Williams reps than now.

Wasn't it early this preseason that many were agitating for Collins and Williams to swap positions?

I was never sold on that, as I was never sold on Collins at LG. He's a weird one. He looks like he should be a G, but he's actually better at T.

 

[Stash]

Wasn't it early this preseason that many were agitating for Collins and Williams to swap positions?

I was never sold on that, as I was never sold on Collins at LG. He's a weird one. He looks like he should be a G, but he's actually better at T.

I think he’s a better guard personally. Where you have to deal with his power.

 

[buybuydandavis]

I think he’s a better guard personally. Where you have to deal with his power.

Except Collins doesn't seem to have power from a 3 point stance. Great power and ability to use it when upright. But from a 3 point stance didn't drive guys off the los.

 

[CowboyRoy]

Starters: Tyron Smith, Connor Williams, Travis Frederick, Zack Martin, La'el Collins
Contenders: Cameron Fleming, Connor McGovern, Xavier Sua-Filo, Joe Looney, Adam Redmond, Jake Campos, Cody Wichmann, Mitch Hyatt, Larry Allen Jr., Derrick Puni, Brandon Knight

The Cowboys gave up 59 sacks last year. The offensive line wasn't completely to blame — Paul Alexander, who was fired and replaced by Colombo, bears some of the responsibility as does Dak Prescott — but there were definitely some problems with the unit that is supposed to be one of the strengths of the team.

One of the problems obviously was Travis Frederick missing the season with Guillain-Barre syndrome. Joe Looney did an admirable job filling in for Frederick, but you don't lose an All-Pro without feeling the effects of it. Looney appears to actually be better than Frederick at pulling, but Frederick is stronger at the point of attack and, possibly even more important, we missed his ability to adjust the protection. Hopefully, he'll have made a full recovery and be back in the lineup, but it's good to know that Looney is at least a reliable backup.

Another issue was Tyron Smith's continuing problems with back tightness. He's had to miss games the past three seasons (three each year) and he didn't seem to be as dominant as he usually is (although the numbers don't support that.) Fortunately, Cameron Fleming proved to be a much more reliable backup than Chaz Green and Byron Bell. Since it can't be considered likely that Smith's back issues will get better, it's good that we re-signed Fleming. I do think it is a credit to Smith that he can still play as well as he has despite the ongoing issue.

The main weaknesses in pass protection (other than the line calls) was the left guard spot. Connor Williams gave up 4.5 sacks starting 10 games at left guard. Xavier Su'a-Filo gave up six in eight starts. (Right tackle La'el Collins gave up five in 16 starts. For comparison's sake, Looney was credited with one, Martin three, Smith zero, and Fleming 1.5 in three starts.) Williams' main problem was just size and power. He's technically very sound, but big DL would just knock him back or walk him back. However, he did handle that better when he returned to the starting lineup and he has put on muscle this offseason. Su'a-Filo has to be considered to be what he's going to be at this point in his career. The sack numbers were consistent with his previous two years in Houston. His power advantage over Williams helped the run game, but his struggles with technique in pass protection got him beat multiple times.

At right tackle, Collins is maligned on here because he's simply OK, instead of being great. He's an average starter in the league, which likely means that he'll leave in free agency next year because he'll look to get paid like he's better than average. That might not be a bad thing before Williams may be a better tackle than he is a guard. I don't know if Williams' strength deficiencies will ever completely go away, but he has good feet and uses good technique (which is where Collins struggles) that could make him a great fit at tackle, where he won't go up against as many powerful players as he did at guard. Drafting Connor McGovern could be a sign that Dallas is leaning that way, but the Cowboys also need better left guard play than it got last year, so he adds another option for that spot this year.

Although Dallas picked up some interesting UDFAs (Mitch Hyatt, Derrick Puni), it isn't likely there's going to be any room to carry them on the 53-man roster this year, unless one of them plays well enough to supplant Su'a-Filo. Adam Redmond would also be a contender for that roster spot, though.

ROSTER PREDICTION: We keep nine on the 53 (Smith, Williams, Frederick, Martin, Collins, Fleming, Su'a-Filo, Looney and McGovern) and the starting five remains the same as it was at the beginning and end of the season. I like the footage I've seen of Puni as a raw prospect and Hyatt appears to be at least fairly highly rated, so both of those could end up on the practice squad. Do we also try to get Larry Allen Jr. to fill out and become anything near what his father was?

Most people don’t realize that blocking also includes te’s. They were horrid last year at blocking.

Only takes 1 missed block to screw everything up.

 

[Stash]

Preparing to limit risk also limits opportunity. It's a trade off.

If we have a LG to backfill Williams, it's better to start as early as possible. Also, it would be better to find out if Williams isn't good at RT as early as possible.

Check out this article on McGovern and his testing:

https://cowboyswire.usatoday.com/20...thletic-profile-ol-thresholds-2019-nfl-draft/

I see zero reason why this player should be redshirted, while Connor Williams wastes a year at left guard, further delaying a planned transition back to tackle.