Post-draft team analysis: OL

[armadillooutlaw]

Check out this article on McGovern and his testing:

https://cowboyswire.usatoday.com/20...thletic-profile-ol-thresholds-2019-nfl-draft/

I see zero reason why this player should be redshirted, while Connor Williams wastes a year at left guard, further delaying a planned transition back to tackle.

Since both Connors are on cheap rookie deals it makes sense to try to make starters out of them ASAP. Trade Collins if need be since he's not for long anyway.
Why wait?
Even if Williams isn't a great fit at RT, you could always kick Martin out there (who actually stonewalled some legitimate NFL defenders from LT in college, namely, Trent Murphy) and plug Williams back at guard if necessary.
Or Looney.
Or Sua'filo.

 

[Stash]

Since both Connors are on cheap rookie deals it makes sense to try to make starters out of them ASAP. Trade Collins if need be since he's not for long anyway.
Why wait?
Even if Williams isn't a great fit at RT, you could always kick Martin out there (who actually stonewalled some legitimate NFL defenders from LT in college, namely, Trent Murphy) and plug Williams back at guard if necessary.
Or Looney.
Or Sua'filo.

Don't forget that they also reupped Fleming on a two year deal, he's also a viable candidate at right tackle.

But I'm not shipping Collins off for nothing, and I can't expect anyone to give up too much for a tackle making too much money, in a contract year, coming off of major shoulder surgery.

I'd just keep Collins and Ride this year out and let he and Williams compete for the RT job.

 

[buybuydandavis]

Check out this article on McGovern and his testing:

https://cowboyswire.usatoday.com/20...thletic-profile-ol-thresholds-2019-nfl-draft/

I see zero reason why this player should be redshirted, while Connor Williams wastes a year at left guard, further delaying a planned transition back to tackle.

Everyone raving about Hill's explosion.

McGovern weighs the same, and his vertical was an inch higher. Got us a coupla freaks.

We actually got a threefer.

Pollard showed up as a superfreak vs. WRs in his Pro Day too:
https://cowboyswire.usatoday.com/20..._medium=recirc&utm_campaign=rail-most-popular

Although it's funny he only jumped half an inch higher than McGovern.

 

[gimmesix]

Most people don’t realize that blocking also includes te’s. They were horrid last year at blocking.

Only takes 1 missed block to screw everything up.

Yeah, I mentioned that in the tight end analysis. Jarwin and Schultz are going to have to do a better job of it if they want any shot at keeping Witten's playing time limited.

 

[gimmesix]

And yet Wîlliams did exactly that last year. Transitioning to a position he hasn't played before. But only now it's "foolish"....

Williams was a second-round pick moving into a position where we let the starter go, so essentially he had to play, especially with Looney needed at center. I don't see that as the same case with McGovern. He was taken a round later as probable depth for this year, with an eye toward developing him into a starter.

Frankly, I thought relying on Williams as a rookie to be the starting left guard without a good backup plan was foolish, and he played poorly enough that he lost his job to a player who no one wanted as a starter because he was a second-round castoff. I don't think he's exactly a great example if you want to prove it's OK to just rely on a rookie.

Like I've said, he got his feet under him better when he returned to the lineup and can hopefully build on that, especially after getting stronger. It won't be as easy for him to build on it, though, if he's splitting time between left guard and right tackle.

 

[gimmesix]

Preparing to limit risk also limits opportunity. It's a trade off.

If we have a LG to backfill Williams, it's better to start as early as possible. Also, it would be better to find out if Williams isn't good at RT as early as possible.

If is the key word. If McGovern hits the ground running. If Looney can start at left guard as well as he played center. Those are things we don't really know at this point. There will be time to give Williams snaps at right tackle if the other players show they can handle the LG role. In the meantime, if Williams is going to start at left guard this year, he needs all the practice time he can get there because he's still growing into that role. If he shows early that he has that position nailed down, then give him RT snaps.

 

[buybuydandavis]

If is the key word. ... There will be time to give Williams snaps at right tackle if the other players show they can handle the LG role. In the meantime, if Williams is going to start at left guard this year, he needs all the practice time he can get there because he's still growing into that role. If he shows early that he has that position nailed down, then give him RT snaps.

Similarly, there will be time for Williams to get his snaps at LG if the other players show they *can't* handle the LG role.

In the meantime, if Williams is going to start at RT this year, he needs all the practice time he can get.

That's the thing about If. All possibilities are an if. Preparing for one means you don't prepare for the others. There are costs on both sides if you prepare for the wrong if.

 

[Stash]

Williams was a second-round pick moving into a position where we let the starter go, so essentially he had to play, especially with Looney needed at center. I don't see that as the same case with McGovern. He was taken a round later as probable depth for this year, with an eye toward developing him into a starter.

"A round later"? That's the best "ding" you can give him?

Frankly, I thought relying on Williams as a rookie to be the starting left guard without a good backup plan was foolish, and he played poorly enough that he lost his job to a player who no one wanted as a starter because he was a second-round castoff. I don't think he's exactly a great example if you want to prove it's OK to just rely on a rookie.

That's because they didn't have options - which they do now. Jonathan Cooper got a big contract in San Francisco and Chaz Green was still Chaz Green. And for the millionth time, the team now has three options to compete for the spot other than Williams so nobody has to rely on a rookie. Best man wins.

Like I've said, he got his feet under him better when he returned to the lineup and can hopefully build on that, especially after getting stronger. It won't be as easy for him to build on it, though, if he's splitting time between left guard and right tackle.

And it won't be easy to transition to right tackle next year after spending two years trying to play left guard. There's no point in keeping him there, and that's why the owner says he will get time at right tackle this year.

 

[Pants]

I actually love the idea of having the 3 studs on the OLine and drafting rookies to take the other spots for a few years - keeps the OLine VERY competitive and somewhat cost-effective so t hat you can keep other players....you can see Collins working somewhere else soon and whomever signs him will help us get a comp pick while either Williams or McGovern earn their spot

 

[Number1]

The main weaknesses in pass protection (other than the line calls) was the left guard spot. Connor Williams gave up 4.5 sacks starting 10 games at left guard. Xavier Su'a-Filo gave up six in eight starts. (Right tackle La'el Collins gave up five in 16 starts. For comparison's sake, Looney was credited with one, Martin three, Smith zero, and Fleming 1.5 in three starts.) Williams' main problem was just size and power. He's technically very sound, but big DL would just knock him back or walk him back. However, he did handle that better when he returned to the starting lineup and he has put on muscle this offseason. Su'a-Filo has to be considered to be what he's going to be at this point in his career. The sack numbers were consistent with his previous two years in Houston. His power advantage over Williams helped the run game, but his struggles with technique in pass protection got him beat multiple times.

I've always wondered how sacks allowed are tallied up.



IMO, it looks like about 1 in 3 were on Dak, seems like a lotto me - but what exactly is a coverage sack considering he rarely got a clean second read when sacked?

can't get much of a look at the WRs but the TEs just plain didn't work to space even with route leverage is that a "coverage" sack?

then there's play calling - slow developing routes in the shadow of you own goal post and also in the red zone - why?

as for the OL as a whole ... LG and RT utterly sucked - next season may ride more on Colombo than Moore

 

[armadillooutlaw]

Don't forget that they also reupped Fleming on a two year deal, he's also a viable candidate at right tackle.

But I'm not shipping Collins off for nothing, and I can't expect anyone to give up too much for a tackle making too much money, in a contract year, coming off of major shoulder surgery.

I'd just keep Collins and Ride this year out and let he and Williams compete for the RT job.

You make a good point about Collins' surgery.
He'll be ready to go by training camp I would imagine. Any trade would have to be equal or greater then the comp pick we'll get when somebody signs him to a large contract.
Otherwise, like you said, let him and Williams compete this year for RT.
I do like Fleming as a plan C at RT for 2020
behind Williams or Martin. JMO.
Most team's plan A isn't any better than our plan C.

 

[gimmesix]

Similarly, there will be time for Williams to get his snaps at LG if the other players show they *can't* handle the LG role.

In the meantime, if Williams is going to start at RT this year, he needs all the practice time he can get.

That's the thing about If. All possibilities are an if. Preparing for one means you don't prepare for the others. There are costs on both sides if you prepare for the wrong if.

Reversing it would be different. We don't know how much time Williams needs to show proficiency at left guard. If he's going to have to hold that position down for this year, then we want him to be the absolute best that he can be at it.

In the meantime, it's possible that someone like McGovern could stand out in practices, like Antwaun Woods did on defense last year, to the point that you can't ignore him. To me, having Williams practice at RT before that happens is putting the cart before the horse. Right now, we need Williams to be a great guard IMO. A week into camp that might not be the case.

 

[Stash]

Reversing it would be different. We don't know how much time Williams needs to show proficiency at left guard. If he's going to have to hold that position down for this year, then we want him to be the absolute best that he can be at it.

In the meantime, it's possible that someone like McGovern could stand out in practices, like Antwaun Woods did on defense last year, to the point that you can't ignore him. To me, having Williams practice at RT before that happens is putting the cart before the horse. Right now, we need Williams to be a great guard IMO. A week into camp that might not be the case.

I respectfully disagree. I thank you for this thread and all of the work and effort put into it. This has led to great conversation, but I definitely think that Joe is the time to have Connor Williams focus on his move to right tackle. The team has at least three and maybe four (Redmond) options for left guard and maybe one other candidate to take play right tackle right now (Fleming) with Collins set to miss most of the offseason work coming off of shoulder surgery.

No time like the present.

 

[gimmesix]

I respectfully disagree. I thank you for this thread and all of the work and effort put into it. This has led to great conversation, but I definitely think that Joe is the time to have Connor Williams focus on his move to right tackle. The team has at least three and maybe four (Redmond) options for left guard and maybe one other candidate to take play right tackle right now (Fleming) with Collins set to miss most of the offseason work coming off of shoulder surgery.

No time like the present.

I'm not going to be mad if they do it since ultimately that's going to be where Williams ends up, and it's probably the best pro position for him.

Although I am unsure of the other guard candidates for a variety of reasons (most of which can be resolved by just seeing them play the position ... other than Su'a-Filo because his issues are not going to change), having the option of moving the RT loser to LG makes it more palatable. I just can't say that I was fully satisfied with Williams' play at LG last year (hopefully, no one can) and believe if he is going to be the one to play it this year, I want to optimize his ability there by making sure it's his focus.

I'd almost prefer if we're going to split Williams' time between RT and LG that we just put him in as the starter at RT, move Collins to LG and only move them back if that combination (or some other player at guard) looks to be worse than what we saw last year. Sometimes this team is so focused on position flex that it doesn't just allow its players to get comfortable knowing one position.

 

[Stash]

I'm not going to be mad if they do it since ultimately that's going to be where Williams ends up, and it's probably the best pro position for him.

Although I am unsure of the other guard candidates for a variety of reasons (most of which can be resolved by just seeing them play the position ... other than Su'a-Filo because his issues are not going to change), having the option of moving the RT loser to LG makes it more palatable. I just can't say that I was fully satisfied with Williams' play at LG last year (hopefully, no one can) and believe if he is going to be the one to play it this year, I want to optimize his ability there by making sure it's his focus.

I'd almost prefer if we're going to split Williams' time between RT and LG that we just put him in as the starter at RT, move Collins to LG and only move them back if that combination (or some other player at guard) looks to be worse than what we saw last year. Sometimes this team is so focused on position flex that it doesn't just allow its players to get comfortable knowing one position.

I wouldn't mind them making a true switch as well, or maybe the "loser at RT to LG" as you mentioned. But a big factor to me is timing. As I said, Collins is expected to miss time, providing reps for Williams now. And if there really is little or not chance that Collins is re-signed next year, it makes sense to start planning for that as soon as possible. And also, strictly from a contract term perspective. They have Williams for three more years and McGovern for four, I'd rather maximize the time they do have rather than sitting or redshirting anyone and missing out on that time.

 

[Verdict]

I think you guys are going to see a couple of possibilities play out on the OL:

1. They are going to keep the young guys if they can play. They will either go long at OL or trade some (most likely) older guys. Looney, Sua Filo and Collins all have trade value.

2. I think you are going to see us make roster room for OTs especially. Collins is a free agent after this year (probably won’t be resigned) and Tyron’s injuries are chronic.

3. Collins will either start or be traded before the season starts because the team will want to either get value out of the comp pick or trade him. Don’t be surprised if he gets traded before the season starts if the young guys can adequately fill in for him. He is being paid like a top performer at his position and he is only average.

4. I think Williams probably has a future starting position on the Cowboys line, but he may not start anywhere this year. He isn’t the best LG on the team, and he may not be able to beat out Collins at RT. He could also be a guy who could be traded.

5. Although almost considered untouchable in prior years, could Smith be dealt? Williams would probably be a better LT than RT because he has technique and speed just not a lot of power.

Lots of possibilities here. Maybe we don’t make any “sudden movements” here, but don’t be surprised if we do.

 

[eromeopolk]

Starters: Tyron Smith, Connor Williams, Travis Frederick, Zack Martin, La'el Collins
Contenders: Cameron Fleming, Connor McGovern, Xavier Sua-Filo, Joe Looney, Adam Redmond, Jake Campos, Cody Wichmann, Mitch Hyatt, Larry Allen Jr., Derrick Puni, Brandon Knight

The Cowboys gave up 59 sacks last year. The offensive line wasn't completely to blame — Paul Alexander, who was fired and replaced by Colombo, bears some of the responsibility as does Dak Prescott — but there were definitely some problems with the unit that is supposed to be one of the strengths of the team.

One of the problems obviously was Travis Frederick missing the season with Guillain-Barre syndrome. Joe Looney did an admirable job filling in for Frederick, but you don't lose an All-Pro without feeling the effects of it. Looney appears to actually be better than Frederick at pulling, but Frederick is stronger at the point of attack and, possibly even more important, we missed his ability to adjust the protection. Hopefully, he'll have made a full recovery and be back in the lineup, but it's good to know that Looney is at least a reliable backup.

Another issue was Tyron Smith's continuing problems with back tightness. He's had to miss games the past three seasons (three each year) and he didn't seem to be as dominant as he usually is (although the numbers don't support that.) Fortunately, Cameron Fleming proved to be a much more reliable backup than Chaz Green and Byron Bell. Since it can't be considered likely that Smith's back issues will get better, it's good that we re-signed Fleming. I do think it is a credit to Smith that he can still play as well as he has despite the ongoing issue.

The main weaknesses in pass protection (other than the line calls) was the left guard spot. Connor Williams gave up 4.5 sacks starting 10 games at left guard. Xavier Su'a-Filo gave up six in eight starts. (Right tackle La'el Collins gave up five in 16 starts. For comparison's sake, Looney was credited with one, Martin three, Smith zero, and Fleming 1.5 in three starts.) Williams' main problem was just size and power. He's technically very sound, but big DL would just knock him back or walk him back. However, he did handle that better when he returned to the starting lineup and he has put on muscle this offseason. Su'a-Filo has to be considered to be what he's going to be at this point in his career. The sack numbers were consistent with his previous two years in Houston. His power advantage over Williams helped the run game, but his struggles with technique in pass protection got him beat multiple times.

At right tackle, Collins is maligned on here because he's simply OK, instead of being great. He's an average starter in the league, which likely means that he'll leave in free agency next year because he'll look to get paid like he's better than average. That might not be a bad thing before Williams may be a better tackle than he is a guard. I don't know if Williams' strength deficiencies will ever completely go away, but he has good feet and uses good technique (which is where Collins struggles) that could make him a great fit at tackle, where he won't go up against as many powerful players as he did at guard. Drafting Connor McGovern could be a sign that Dallas is leaning that way, but the Cowboys also need better left guard play than it got last year, so he adds another option for that spot this year.

Although Dallas picked up some interesting UDFAs (Mitch Hyatt, Derrick Puni), it isn't likely there's going to be any room to carry them on the 53-man roster this year, unless one of them plays well enough to supplant Su'a-Filo. Adam Redmond would also be a contender for that roster spot, though.

ROSTER PREDICTION: We keep nine on the 53 (Smith, Williams, Frederick, Martin, Collins, Fleming, Su'a-Filo, Looney and McGovern) and the starting five remains the same as it was at the beginning and end of the season. I like the footage I've seen of Puni as a raw prospect and Hyatt appears to be at least fairly highly rated, so both of those could end up on the practice squad. Do we also try to get Larry Allen Jr. to fill out and become anything near what his father was?

Collins has been out of position for years and should be LG where he would probably be a Pro Bowler (played SEC LT at LSU natural conversion to LG). I would move Collins now because it is easier to find a LG than a RT. You would also find out faster if Williams is your future RT. Cowboys have a lot of depth at OG/C so Larry Allen Jr. looks like the practice squad. One of the free agent OL will make the roster.

Also, remember, you can teach technique but not feet and power to an OL.

 

[gimmesix]

Collins has been out of position for years and should be LG where he would probably be a Pro Bowler (played SEC LT at LSU natural conversion to LG). I would move Collins now because it is easier to find a LG than a RT. You would also find out faster if Williams is your future RT. Cowboys have a lot of depth at OG/C so Larry Allen Jr. looks like the practice squad. One of the free agent OL will make the roster.

Also, remember, you can teach technique but not feet and power to an OL.

I honestly didn't think Collins was all that great at left guard. He might could have developed into a great one, but I thought Ron Leary was better when they were both here. Of course, Williams wasn't exactly great at left guard his rookie year, but he was looking better at it when he returned to the lineup late in the year. The problems he was having with power were less apparent, so I think he was already on the way to fixing his main issue. Adding weight/muscle should help even more.

My only problem with the idea is that we have plenty of LG candidates is that we can tend to overrate players we haven't seen. I don't know how Looney would do starting at guard. I don't know how McGovern would do starting at guard. I don't even know how Collins would do transitioning back to the position. The only players that I have any certainty about there are Su'a-Filo, who is a flawed starter, and Williams, who was a flawed starter who showed improvement.

I just think too many of you are taking things we don't have evidence for and counting on them. Yes, I know we're all projecting to some extent, but I can only project based on what I've seen, not on what I haven't seen. Right now, Williams' projection as a left guard is on the rise while Su'a-Filo should be expected to be the same as he has the last few years, which is not very good at pass protection. Looney has been a career backup for a reason, but I will say that he improved himself last year and played as well as could be expected at center (again, a different position than guard as far as blocking responsibilities).

Anyone thinking we can just count on McGovern, Hyatt, etc., among the rookies seem to have forgotten players like Jacob Rogers, Stephen Peterman, David Arkin and Robert Brewster. I know our scouting department deserves some benefit of the doubt of doing much better than the ones who led to us drafting those players, but there's still a pretty high failure rate for draft picks and UDFAs.

As I said, I'm not opposed to moving Williams to right tackle and Collins to guard and leaving them there unless it seems apparent that the team is weaker for it. I am opposed to splitting Williams time between RT and LG, though, if he's going to be the starting LG this season because our first focus needs to be on this season and doing everything we can to win it, including allowing the guy who is going to start at a position to learn to be proficient at it.