Prince Jonathan Taylor

Discussion in 'NFL Zone' started by RaZon, Nov 3, 2021.

  1. RaZon

    RaZon Well-Known Member

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    Forget....championship runs.....yes the Cowboys were better than the Lions. Not talking the Cowboys,

    Barry was a 6 time all pro, Emmitt 4, Barry a 10 time pro bowler, Emmitt 7, and Barry played in far less seasons.

    So you take Emmitt over everyone because he had more yards/TD's but that doesn't work for Gore or anyone else, really?

    What is it about....Emmitt Smith played longer, had more carries than everyone else that is why he has more yards/TD.....you aren't getting? Give any of the greats 4000 carries and see what they do since all of them averaged more a carry than Emmitt.

    ONE MORE TIME,....saw Emmitt many times he isn't as impressive as those I listed above him, hell, or,,,Gale Sayers. Hell give Sayers 4000 carries, whoa!!!!!

    Seen a lot of football my man, hell saw Emmitt at Florida, I know what I am looking at, ok?
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2021
  2. RonnieT24

    RonnieT24 Well-Known Member

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    Fine.. he's not impressive to you.. You know why you can't give Gale Sayers 4000 carries.. because his running style got him hurt, that's why.. That running style also would have abandoned him anyway after a few great seasons even without the injury. We can project what this guy or that guy coulda woulda shoulda done if they were in Emmitt's situations.. You know what we don't have to project? the fact that none of them did what he did. You keep wanting to limit the discussion to whatever one or two stats make your case.. Which is fine that you want to do it.. However I will keep repeating it. Emmitt was a better all around football player than all the guys on that list except Sweetness. Period. You wanna say so and so was a better runner.. fine.. So and so was faster.. fine.. So and so was more powerful.. Again.. fine.. So and so was more elusive.. also fine. My argument always comes back to the total package... You can have any of the guys on that list you want.. Give me Emmitt or Sweetness.. keep the rest. They were simply not as good a football players as those two. Fun to watch? Hell yes!!! Better? Very debatable..
     
  3. RaZon

    RaZon Well-Known Member

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    The link won't work for me? But....I know the story.

    Speaking of stories...

    So there's this party, a lot of sports stars there, including Jim Brown and Wilt Chamberlain. well one thing leads to another.....

    Will run about a 40 with shoes off pant legs rolled up, yep Jim vs Wilt, somebody say...GO! Wilt wins but close, well Brown ain't buying it so they do it again, Wilt wins again. Don't know when this happened, or....if it really did.

    You ran a 10.5 100m at 35, this was at a meet? What was the situation? Don't think you are getting just how impressive that is.

    Check it out, a race you would have won easily.



    Gabby Thomas Harvard grad
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2021
  4. RaZon

    RaZon Well-Known Member

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    Whoa, he is very impressive to me, hell only a hand full more impressive....like I said.

    You are trying so hard to have it EMMITT SMITH BEST RB EVER....and it just isn't true. My man, is he better than Tomlinson, let me guess.......you think he was, right? Want me to prove that it wasn't? Come on man, better than Jim Brown, hell no. And who cares about....better football player....we are talking best running backs. Emmitt was not the best RB, and seriously doubt anyone would agree with you that he was. YES....great RB, NO, on the best ever.

    Compare his career to LT, look at yards from scrimmage. If it's.....better blocker...nobody cares, ok? Doubt Brown ever threw a block.
     
  5. RonnieT24

    RonnieT24 Well-Known Member

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    I grew up in a track and field family.. Bob Hayes was my first childhood hero.. I FULLY understand what an achievement it was.. As for the situation.. It was a qualifier meet at Chabot College in Hayward.. Some Olympic hopefuls were using it to try and qualify for the US Trials in summer of '96. To be honest I never expected to run that fast.. I had clocked myself at 10.8/10.9 in training but always took it with a grain of salt because well.. you know.. the watch was in my hand so how legit could it be. There were 3 or 4 legit Olympic hopefuls in the field and the only reason I ran against them was that I was the only "masters" contestant so I got to run with the "big dogs." I got off to my usual blazing start and actually led at about the midway point.. Right when I started to let myself believe I could win two of the guys zipped past me. It took all the discipline I could muster not to allow myself to be drawn out of my form and to hold it the rest of the way. As it turned out doing so kept me third.. One of the guys was named Eugene something.. and I never did get the other guy's name except I remember he ran in LSU colors. They both ran in the 10.3 range. I believe the Eugene guy actually did qualify for the trials in the 110 hurdles but not the 100 meters. (I just looked him up.. it was Eugene Swift.. who hailed from Oakland..) Anyway.. nobody was more shocked than I was when the timers walked over to me and gave me my time.. 10.58.. FAT.. They even wrote it on my first place (because I was classified as a masters) ribbon for me.. I still have that ribbon in a drawer somewhere.. complete with the guy's handwritten time on it. That was almost 30 years ago but I still remember it like it was yesterday. If I had been thinking I would have saved the sports page from the next day because it had my name and time in the scoreboard section. Since I was the only masters contestant I won all my events that day.. 100, 200 and LJ so got mah name in the paper three times.

    Two funny things came out of that run.. The first was that the coach of one of the track clubs there tried to recruit me on the spot after the race. He asked me who I ran for.. I said nobody.. just myself.. He asked me who trained me.. I said.. nobody.. just myself usually 3-4 days a week at lunchtime.. He was stupefied.. He said: " You just ran 10.5 in the 100 meters only training on your lunch break? How old are you?" When I told him I was 35 he about fainted.. He then walked me over to his team and told them.. yall just got beat by a 35 year old dude who only trains on his lunch break!!! Even though I didn't take him up on his offer to train with his squad (too many bills to pay) .. it did inspire me to try and up my training to see how much faster I could run.. That brings me to the second part.. I tried to up my training to 5 days a week for at least two hours. That's when my body reminded me that I was old.. I started to break down.. hammies, quad, shins, even a bout of plantar fascia. I simply couldn't train enough to get any faster.. But I can tell you.. I was HELL on wheels in my flag football leagues for the next several months.. It was really fun being that fast. Until I started getting hurt doing that too.. Gittin old sucks..
     
  6. RaZon

    RaZon Well-Known Member

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    Saw a advertisement.....Adult Flag Football Sign Ups...my heart was broken knowing I can't sign up....anymore. Yep, tears in my eyes.

    Anyway....

    Dude, a 10.58 at 35, whoa! You blew it my man, you have no business not having a serious college track career, you screwed up guy.

    Eugene Swift out of Merritt JC cat never went to a 4 year school, yep, great hurdler who could sprint, as he did on that Merritt 4x1. Saw him many times.

    This is a sad story my friend a classic.....what could have been.

    Love the stories sad or other wise, keep um coming.

    Trivia question

    When Bob Hayes was in the NFL there were two fellow NFLers who had beaten him at the NCAA level, who?
     
  7. RaZon

    RaZon Well-Known Member

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  8. RonnieT24

    RonnieT24 Well-Known Member

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    You don't have to tell me I blew my college track career... I was there LOL! .. But seriously I'm sure I mentioned it before.. I was never that fast in high school and college. Mostly because I never learned how to run properly.. I was fast but my form was bad and I could never learn to relax once I got to top speed. I always wanted to be "trying harder" because I could feel/see others gaining on me and thus invariably tightened up and and faded after about 40-50 meters. I never broke 11 in college. I had heard a dozen coaches over the years tell me what I needed to do.. but I didn't hear them.. Then when the USFL team moved to our town and I decided to try out I started training with two buddies.. and for whatever reason, I finally started to get it.. So I would get to that point in the race where normally I would be telling myself to "try harder" and started telling myself to relax and let my stride continue to elongate. So even though it felt to me like I was slowing down, I was actually still accelerating. After a few weeks of training like that I started to notice that now when I got to that "slowing down" point in the race it was like the other guys hit a wall or something.. I would go from being neck in neck with them to opening up a 2-3 stride lead almost in an instant. It was weird and it took a lot of getting used to. I had to train my brain to get the hell out of the way and let my body run.. But I was already in my late 20s ..married with one kid already and another one on the way.. There was no room to be pursuin no Olympic dream.. Once the USFL thing washed out I focused on supporting the family the old fashioned way.. Work.


    I used to know the answer to this question.. but have long since forgotten.. I do believe however that he was undefeated in his college career at 100 yards or 100 meters.. If someone beat him it had to be at 200/220.
     
  9. RonnieT24

    RonnieT24 Well-Known Member

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    Nice.. and I still don't care.. I didn't start watching football really until 1965-1966 so I missed most of Brown and the guys before .. but of the guys I have gotten to watch.. Emmitt and Payton are 1a and 1b.. for me and maybe LT gets in there as a 1c because he was a pretty complete back too.. It's not an argument that can ever truly be settled.. I get that.. Emmitt and Sweetness are my top two.. Others can have theirs.. but their opinion holds no sway over me. I don't care if they call themselves an "expert."
     
  10. RaZon

    RaZon Well-Known Member

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    When you talk about training, what are you talking about? You said......train harder.....that means what?

    Did you train to build your speed endurance, that ability to sustain/maintain your topend/max velocity, that comes from over distance running, 300's on 300's. Did you go that route?

    I get this feeling you had some serious potential that went un tapped, sad sad story, go kick yourself,,,,ha!!!

    Smart man, while Hayes did lose a college 100 to Roger Sayers, yep, his older brother who was a world class sprinter, the ones I'm looking for both played for the Giants both beat him at 200m. Homer Jones (daddy of the The Spike) at an NAIA meet and Olympic 200m gold medalist Henry Carr who the Giants brought in to cover Hayes.
     
  11. RaZon

    RaZon Well-Known Member

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    Well if I have car problems or need a doctor, will go with an....expert. Not concerned with opinions, going with the facts.

    Not sure why ya pretty much ignore the fact the reason Emmitt has all those yards/TD is because he carried the ball over 4000 times, that seems to make no dent at all.......why?
     
  12. RonnieT24

    RonnieT24 Well-Known Member

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    I didn't really train harder.. I just learned to train smarter. I think what ultimately worked for me was two things.. I learned the lunge walking exercise.. My buddies and I literally would do like 10x50 of them before every workout.. Never did that one in high school or college. Don't know why but none of my coaches ever brought that to a workout. I learned from my training buddy. The other thing that I credit with getting better explosion off the ground was stairs.. But not running them like most people do.. We would hop them.. All the way up to the top of the stadium on one leg.. Then jog back down and do it again on the other leg. When I incorporated those two into my workout I got a lot stronger, my stride got longer and I was much more explosive out of the blocks, in transition and at top speed. I honestly don't know how fast I could have run if I had figured all this out in my early 20's and not my early 30's. I try not to think about it.

    LOL!.. I used to kick myself daily .. Now it's just maybe once I week.. I do still drag myself out to the track three times a week even at age 61. I know I'm never going to be fast again.. but it's the training I am most familiar with so it's the one I choose to use until the Good Lord takes it away from me by having a knee, hip or some other body part give out! Stretch, a few fartleks, some lunges and a few 100/200 meter striders gets the juices flowing.. then I drive over the gym and lift. That's been my routine for a good 25-30 years now.. Looking forward to 25-30 more!
     
  13. RaZon

    RaZon Well-Known Member

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    My friend......while anything ya do helps unless you get on a track and run repeat 300's over and over building that endurance, you are wasting your time.

    A fast footballer can run with a world class sprinter in a 40, then there goes the sprinter as the football fades and quickly, the difference is speed endurance something football players just don't have while track guys have it in abundance.

    300 walk a 100, 300 walk a 100, 300 walk a 100, 300 walk a 100. Without something similiar to that, forget being a serious sprinter. Of course now nothing maters other than having fun.

    Little story....

    Fred Kerley was one of the worlds top 400m sprinters, he got a wild hair and decided to run the 100m, obviously his speed endurance not a problem, ha! He would win the 100m silver at the last Olympics. One season of 100m sprinting.
     
  14. RonnieT24

    RonnieT24 Well-Known Member

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    Oh I did plenty of traditional track training.. 100s, 200s, 300s, 400s even 500s... inverted pyramids.. all of it. But the fact of the matter is I had done all of that before. Nothing ever changed until I incorporated the other stuff.. I went from a mid 11 sprinter to a mid 10 guy over the course of 2-3 years. Again.. I did everything the same as I had been doing my entire sprinting life. I probably could have improved faster if I had been unemployed and able to train more than an hour and a half at lunch.
     
  15. RonWashington

    RonWashington Well-Known Member

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    The closest Jonathan Taylor is going to come to HoF or SB rings is if he takes a trip to Canton see Emmitts neat display and maybe go to a neighborhood jewelry store in Indy see if they can make him a knock off SB replica.
     
  16. RaZon

    RaZon Well-Known Member

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    If running repeat 300's isn't helping something is wrong. Anyway, a 10.58 at 35 is simply a shame.
     
  17. RaZon

    RaZon Well-Known Member

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    The Prince probably has 8ish seasons left before the jets cool, let's see what happens.

    How many plus 20 runs does he already have, love that 5.4 average, Emmitt ever average 5.4, hmmm?
     
  18. RonnieT24

    RonnieT24 Well-Known Member

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    I hope you're right.. He seems like a good kid and is a ton of fun to watch tote the rock. I wanna be watching him do his thing in 7-8 years.. But you and I both know that backs who are still killin it as they approach 30 are extremely rare.. Hopefully JT can join that company.. But we also know that this league has been devaluing the running game and the running back position more and more every year. So even he IS still a good back, the Colts will equally likely dump him after his rookie deal and send him off to some purgatory team like the Jets as they are to extend him. Finally we know that all those hits have a way of taking the starch out of back over time. He's not likely to be as quick and explosive in 2026 as he is now. He will have to adapt his game .. it's what the great ones do to be able to last in the league. The extra game every year will help his annual totals, but it's not going to do his body and long term health any favors. I wish him the best.
     
  19. RonnieT24

    RonnieT24 Well-Known Member

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    One quick note on why I value what Emmitt accomplished over all the others.. Obviously he piled up yards.. and obviously his ability to stay on the field for the most part over his 15 seasons was a big reason why.. That speaks to his durability.. which is huge.. The fact that even though he played at between 205 and 215 but was maybe the best short yardage back in league history is also huge. People like to dismiss his accomplishments because "his line was so good.." My counter would be.. Which one? Emmitt played with 20 something different line combinations in his career. When he was rushing for 1400 yards in 14 games in his age 30 year the only holdover from the great 90's lines was Larry Allen.. The rest were just "guys." Well Erik Williams was out there but he was no longer Erik Williams after the car accident shredded his knee. And the Cowboys had gotten desperate and brought back an aging Stepnoski off the scrapheap that year too. He led the league in rushing with Nate Newton at right tackle... then led it again with Nate at left guard and Erik Williams at right tackle.. He led with Mark Stepnoski at center.. then led it again with Ray Donaldson and Derrick Kennard .. The names in front of him shuffled all the time but the results remained startlingly consistent until Emmitt HIMSELF got dinged up and started to slow down..

    If all those lines were so great then why didn't Emmitt's backups come in an blow up behind them? Why did Derrick Lassick an all-SEC back at Bama average almost 2 yard less per carry than Emmitt in 1993?
    Why did Blair Thomas and all America back out of Penn State averaged a hard and a half less than Emmitt in 1994?
    Sherman Williams.. another all SEC back out of Bama averaged a full yard less per carry than Emmitt in 1995?
    Why did Chris Warren, a former all pro himself, average less ypc as Emmitt's backup in 1999?

    Yes once he got really old his backups started coming in and looking quicker and fresher than Emmitt.. but most years, Emmitt's backups, many of whom had been all everything in college, failed to produce at the rate he did...

    Why might that have been? Because Emmitt was special.. The best explanation about why was given by Moose Johnston when they interviewed him during the run up to Emmitt breaking Payton's record.. He was asked what made Emmitt special and when he first realized it.. He told a story of one of their first games together.. it was a red zone situation .. they were in I and the play was a toss sweep right.. Moose was supposed to lead and go bet the OLB .. but the OLB read the play and sprinted past him to blow up the play.. Only that's not what happened.. He said no sooner was he starting to feel sorry for himself and prepared to get cussed out for not getting the block than he saw the backer coming back his way.. At that moment he realized that Emmitt had glided along keeping Moose between himself and the backer.. then dipped back inside to force the backer to follow.. Moose blasted the guy into the stands and Emmitt waltzed into the end zone. He said as he went back to the sideline to all the congratulations about what a great block he had thrown, he realized that Emmitt had set that block up by being patient and by having the quickness and acceleration to dart into the opening it created. He had initially missed his assignment, yet Emmitt turned it into a positive play. He recounted that there had been hundreds of such plays.. Where the blocking was bad, but Emmitt used his uncanny ability to set blocks up, make minute adjustments on his path to and through the line, then hit the accelerator to flash into the "18 inches of daylight" and on film it looked as though the line had opened a gaping hole.

    The lay person watching had no idea of what had happened.. but Emmitt's teammates knew..
     
  20. RaZon

    RaZon Well-Known Member

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    Speaking of what is said by the player
    1. Larry Allen was simply a freak of nature.

      He was the anchor for the Cowboys line for 12 solid seasons. Troy Aikman and Emmitt Smith attribute much of their success to their offensive line, specifically Larry Allen.

      He was a man among boys.

      Allen was simply a freak of nature


    2. Everybody knows about that offensive line so why are you trying to belittle that? Like I mentioned I have seen the Cowboys//Emmitt play. Trust me that offensive line was HUGE in the success of Emmitt Smith.
    Emmitt ws great but when ya have 4000 carries which is far more than anyone else you will have more yards. I showed you his last nine seasons where he never averaged more than 4,1 a season. Kinda funny you saying.....Emmitt is better than all those he has more yards than, ah...but can't say that about Frank Gore,,,,,,huh???

    Look man I have checked out about a dozen of those BEST ALL TIME RB's bits, nobody has Emmitt at number one. His highest,,,,4. He is always behind Barry, Payton and Jim Brown, always and he should be. Brown played in 12 game seasons, and only nine years, think if he'd played in 16 game seasons for 12 years. What if Barry had played longer?

    Emmitt is among the great ones a top 10 cat, but get real with him being the best ever, that simply isn't reality and I will stack my NFL knowledge up against anyone, seen um all since 1957.

    Top 10

    1.Jim Brown
    2.Walter Payton
    3.Barry Sanders
    4.Eric Dickerson
    5.O.J.Simpson
    6.LT
    7.Emmitt Smith
    8.Adrian Peterson
    9.Marshall Faulk
    10.Earl Campbell
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2021

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