PS3? or XBOX360?

zorg222

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That is the question that is running wild in my mind.

I don't know what to do.

Do I get the XBOX360 when it comes out later this year? Or do I wait a year for the PS3?

Microsoft has released the features of the XBOX360, but the PS3 may look at what the XBOX360 has and adjust accordingly. I have a PS2 and before that I had a PS so I know sony is reliable, but that XBOX360 is going to be a helluva machine. 3 proccesors! That's impressive and I just don't know that Sony can top that.

I know what I'll do. I'll get the XBOX360 when it comes out, then I will save up for a year and I will buy a PS3.

Well my problems are solved now, but now the question is... if you could only get one of those systems... which one would you get? The XBOX360 now, or the PS3 later?

Which one is it?
 

jksmith269

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My selling point between the XBOX and PS2 was the built in memory. I have both and the Box is faster loading, saving and the graphics are better granted its newer.

Now with the new systems if both are backwards compatiable then I'll go again with the XBox again because the built in Memory. The PS3 will have a detachable HD but the Memory will be a lot less than the box and prob sold seperatly.

XBOX is wireless has 3 yes 3 2.5ghz processors what does that mean its faster than the CPU I'm on now. Did you watch the VIDEO on the link I uploaded? The box has something called a tara flop what ever that is. I think the Box will be the better of the two and I was a lot like you I think I was a PS junkie I swore by it until I got the BOX for the kids and realized it was better no more $20 meory cards that only hold a couple saves. (I already had the PS2) I now have 2 box's and 1ps2, ps1, N64 and 5 GBA's
 

Tio

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both will have built in memory. THe ps3 will have all the games, and after coming out almost 3 years after the ps2, the x box isn't remarkably better.
 

T-New41

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jksmith269 said:
XBOX is wireless has 3 yes 3 2.5ghz processors what does that mean its faster than the CPU I'm on now.

Actually the specs say (3) 3.2 GHZ processors
 

SteveOS

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I'll be getting all 3 of the next-gen consoles. I'm just a flat out nerd w/ these gadgets. :)
 

zorg222

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SteveOS said:
I'll be getting all 3 of the next-gen consoles. I'm just a flat out nerd w/ these gadgets. :)

I'll go with Sony or Microsoft, but Nintendo is what I don't like. In the beginning they were the ONLY decent video game manufacturer, but then Sony came out with the PS and PS2 and Microsoft came out with the XBOX. They both surpassed the Gamecube by a million miles. The truth is Nintendo just doesn't put out good quality stuff so they're business isn't looking good right now. They don't even have portable gaming in a stronghold anymore with the PSP now in stores.

Point is I just won't buy Nintendo stuff anymore.

BTW, I'm getting a PSP, too. That is the coolest thing, all condensed into little teeny weeny, teeny tiny parts. It's awesome!
 

zorg222

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WOOHITZ said:
Does anyone know what the price is going to be for the new XBOX?

shpuld be about $300-$400, but I don't know if they have actually released the price or not
 

Qwickdraw

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SteveOS said:
I'll be getting all 3 of the next-gen consoles. I'm just a flat out nerd w/ these gadgets. :)
Same here.
I must confess that I am a true video game dork. I have to have Nintendo for the exclusive titles like Zelda and Metroid. I think the XBOX 360 will be the most rewarding of the 3 and will be released first which will give them a good jump on all of the others. PS3 is last on my list as always. They will be like Nintendo in the sense that they will have a handful of exclusive titles worth having but other than that, most of the games will be on the 360 as well so it's redundant. I think the "online straight out of the box" for the 360 will encourage alot more online play and really set off the new era in gaming. I can't wait until this fall/winter to get a 360 and the new Zelda.

(I currently own the XBOX, Gamecube, and PS2. I'm sure I'll do it all over again.)
 

SteveOS

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Exactly. I can't get enough Zelda and Mario games from Nintendo, so I'll have to get the Revolution. I can't get enough MLB from 989 Sports and absolutely fell in love w/ Gods of War, so that means I'm getting the PS3. I can't get enough of the sports games on the Xbox and Xbox Live for me is like another world. I'll have all 3 next-gen systems and won't have a care about the flame wars that are bound to happen w/ the other dorks and nerds. :)
 

Duane

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I'm an XBOX owner but am thinking about getting a PS3 instead of a 360. Most of what I like playing is RPGs and the XBOX is just lacking. So if they are both released this Christmas I think I'll go PS3 first. If they are spaced out by six months I may get both.

I just hope they'll stay in the $300 range. I'd hate to fork over $500 for a game console.
 

JoshBYW

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PS3 is last on my list as always. They will be like Nintendo in the sense that they will have a handful of exclusive titles worth having but other than that, most of the games will be on the 360 as well so it's redundant.

I'm a fan of the XBox and all, but that's kinda silly. Isn't the same true for XBox? Doesn't the XBox have a handful of exclusive titles (like consoles do) and the rest are on the PS3?

Most of what I like playing is RPGs and the XBOX is just lacking.

Well, if Fable isn't your thing (and it shouldn't be, because it sucks), then you might be excited to know that Microsoft and Square Enix have reportedly worked out a deal to bring the Final Fantasy series to the 360.
 

jksmith269

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WOOHITZ said:
Does anyone know what the price is going to be for the new XBOX?
From what I've heard there are going to be three different versions of the 360 the main difference will be the size of the hard drive on each. I think the lower priced one is going to be around 250 then 350 and finally 450. This is what I was told at the local store and I have read in the XBOX mag a few months ago that there would be different versions as well. but that could have been smoke they were blowing. We will see in a few months....
 

Duane

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JoshBYW said:
Well, if Fable isn't your thing (and it shouldn't be, because it sucks), then you might be excited to know that Microsoft and Square Enix have reportedly worked out a deal to bring the Final Fantasy series to the 360.
I liked the KOTOR games, Jade Empire and liked Fable even though it didn't deliver like it was supposed to. But other than the new Elder Scrolls game and the Square project I don't think the 360 is suddenly going to have a great number of RPGs.

The Play Station on the other hand has Final Fantasy, Kingdom Hearts, Xenosaga, Star Ocean, etc... I don't see the PS3 having any fewer RPG series.

So if I had to chose between the two right now I'd go PS3. I still like my XBOX but want more quality RPGs and with Sony you can count on that.
 

adbutcher

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E3 2005: Microsoft's Xbox 360 vs. Sony's PlayStation 3
With Sony's specs out, Microsoft has sent us its a comparitive analysis. What's the outcome?
by Douglass C. Perry
May 20, 2005 - It's 3:30 pm on Friday, May 20, the last day of E3. The fine PR folks from Microsoft, who invited us to their headquarters a week before E3 to show us their system, their specs, and the grand design behind their powerful new Xbox 360, have just sent us an urgent notice to update our specs with new information. Earlier in the day, we were sent a comparative analysis of the Xbox 360's power vs. the PlayStation 3's power.

We decided to put this Microsoft-provided information up undigested. Thus, enclosed is a Microsoft-made comparitive analysis. We have not altered, added, or tinkered with the data. We have not interpreted the specs. We have cut and pasted this information from the email into our site and formatted it. Make of it what you will, but be clear we know Microsoft has clearly slanted this info, and we're not endorsing it, just printing their version. There is a difference.

XBOX 360 / PLAYSTATION 3 PERFORMANCE COMPARISON

SUMMARY
Now that the Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3 specifications have been announced, it is possible to do a real world performance comparison of the two systems.

There are three critical performance aspects of a console:

Central Processing Unit (CPU) performance.

The Xbox 360 CPU architecture has three times the general purpose processing power of the Cell.

Graphics Processing Unit (GPU) performance

The Xbox 360 GPU design is more flexible and it has more processing power than the PS3 GPU.

Memory System Bandwidth

The memory system bandwidth in Xbox 360 exceeds the PS3's by five times.

microsofts-xbox-360-vs-sonys-playstation-3-20050520041728972.jpg

The Xbox 360's CPU has more general purpose processing power because it has three general purpose cores, and Cell has just one.

microsofts-xbox-360-vs-sonys-playstation-3-20050520041729362.jpg

Cell's claimed advantage is on streaming floating point work which is done on its seven DSP processors.


microsofts-xbox-360-vs-sonys-playstation-3-20050520041731425.jpg

The Xbox 360 GPU has more processing power than the PS3's. In addition, its innovated features contribute to overall rendering performance.


microsofts-xbox-360-vs-sonys-playstation-3-20050520041725628.jpg

Xbox 360 has 278.4 GB/s of memory system bandwidth. The PS3 has less than one-fifth of Xbox 360's (48 GB/s) of total memory system bandwidth.
Xbox 360 has 278.4 GB/s of memory system bandwidth. The PS3 has less than one-fifth of Xbox 360's (48 GB/s) of total memory system bandwidth.

CONCLUSION
When you break down the numbers, Xbox 360 has provably more performance than PS3. Keep in mind that Sony has a track record of over promising and under delivering on technical performance. The truth is that both systems pack a lot of power for high definition games and entertainment.

However, hardware performance, while important, is only a third of the puzzle. Xbox 360 is a fusion of hardware, software and services. Without the software and services to power it, even the most powerful hardware becomes inconsequential. Xbox 360 games—by leveraging cutting-edge hardware, software, and services—will outperform the PlayStation 3.

DETAILED ANALYSIS OF PERFORMANCE SPECIFICATIONS



CPU
The Xbox 360 processor was designed to give game developers the power that they actually need, in an easy to use form. The Cell processor has impressive streaming floating-point power that is of limited use for games.

The majority of game code is a mixture of integer, floating-point, and vector math, with lots of branches and random memory accesses. This code is best handled by a general purpose CPU with a cache, branch predictor, and vector unit.

The Cell's seven DSPs (what Sony calls SPEs) have no cache, no direct access to memory, no branch predictor, and a different instruction set from the PS3's main CPU. They are not designed for or efficient at general purpose computing. DSPs are not appropriate for game programming.

Xbox 360 has three general purpose CPU cores. The Cell processor has only one.

Xbox 360's CPUs has vector processing power on each CPU core. Each Xbox 360 core has 128 vector registers per hardware thread, with a dot product instruction, and a shared 1-MB L2 cache. The Cell processor's vector processing power is mostly on the seven DSPs.

Dot products are critical to games because they are used in 3D math to calculate vector lengths, projections, transformations, and more. The Xbox 360 CPU has a dot product instruction, where other CPUs such as Cell must emulate dot product using multiple instructions.

Cell's streaming floating-point work is done on its seven DSP processors. Since geometry processing is moved to the GPU, the need for streaming floating-point work and other DSP style programming in games has dropped dramatically.

Just like with the PS2's Emotion Engine, with its missing L2 cache, the Cell is designed for a type of game programming that accounts for a minor percentage of processing time.

Sony's CPU is ideal for an environment where 12.5% of the work is general-purpose computing and 87.5% of the work is DSP calculations. That sort of mix makes sense for video playback or networked waveform analysis, but not for games. In fact, when analyzing real games one finds almost the opposite distribution of general purpose computing and DSP calculation requirements. A relatively small percentage of instructions are actually floating point. Of those instructions which are floating-point, very few involve processing continuous streams of numbers. Instead they are used in tasks like AI and path-finding, which require random access to memory and frequent branches, which the DSPs are ill-suited to.

Based on measurements of running next generation games, only ~10-30% of the instructions executed are floating point. The remainders of the instructions are load, store, integer, branch, etc. Even fewer of the instructions executed are streaming floating point—probably ~5-10%. Cell is optimized for streaming floating-point, with 87.5% of its cores good for streaming floating-point and nothing else.

microsofts-xbox-360-vs-sonys-playstation-3-20050520041729831.jpg


microsofts-xbox-360-vs-sonys-playstation-3-20050520041730612.jpg

GPU
Even ignoring the bandwidth limitations the PS3's GPU is not as powerful as the Xbox 360's GPU.



Below are the specs from Sony's press release regarding the PS3's GPU.

RSX GPU

550 MHz

Independent vertex/pixel shaders

51 billion dot products per second (total system performance)

300M transistors

136 "shader operations" per clock
The interesting ALU performance numbers are 51 billion dot products per second (total system performance), 300M transistors, and more than twice as powerful as the 6800 Ultra.

The 51 billions dot products per cycle were listed on a summary slide of total graphics system performance and are assumed to include the Cell processor. Sony's calculations seem to assume that the Cell can do a dot product per cycle per DSP, despite not having a dot product instruction.

However, using Sony's claim, 7 dot products per cycle * 3.2 GHz = 22.4 billion dot products per second for the CPU. That leaves 51 - 22.4 = 28.6 billion dot products per second that are left over for the GPU. That leaves 28.6 billion dot products per second / 550 MHz = 52 GPU ALU ops per clock.

It is important to note that if the RSX ALUs are similar to the GeForce 6800 ALUs then they work on vector4s, while the Xbox 360 GPU ALUs work on vector5s. The total programmable GPU floating point performance for the PS3 would be 52 ALU ops * 4 floats per op *2 (madd) * 550 MHz = 228.8 GFLOPS which is less than the Xbox 360's 48 ALU ops * 5 floats per op * 2 (madd) * 500 MHz= 240 GFLOPS.

With the number of transistors being slightly larger on the Xbox 360 GPU (330M) it's not surprising that the total programmable GFLOPs number is very close.

microsofts-xbox-360-vs-sonys-playstation-3-20050520041730987.jpg


The PS3 does have the additional 7 DSPs on the Cell to add more floating point ops for graphics rendering, but the Xbox 360's three general purpose cores with custom D3D and dot product instructions are more customized for true graphics related calculations.

The 6800 Ultra has 16 pixel pipes, 6 vertex pipes, and runs at 400 MHz. Given the RSX's 2x better than a 6800 Ultra number and the higher frequency of the RSX, one can roughly estimate that it will have 24 pixel shading pipes and 4 vertex shading pipes (fewer vertex shading pipes since the Cell DSPs will do some vertex shading). If the PS3 GPU keeps the 6800 pixel shader pipe co-issue architecture which is hinted at in Sony's press release, this again gives it 24 pixel pipes* 2 issued per pipe + 4 vertex pipes = 52 dot products per clock in the GPU.

If the RSX follows the 6800 Ultra route, it will have 24 texture samplers, but when in use they take up an ALU slot, making the PS3 GPU in practice even less impressive. Even if it does manage to decouple texture fetching from ALU co-issue, it won't have enough bandwidth to fetch the textures anyways.

For shader operations per clock, Sony is most likely counting each pixel pipe as four ALU operations (co-issued vector+scalar) and a texture operation per pixel pipe and 4 scalar operations for each vector pipe, for a total of 24 * (4 + 1) + (4*4) = 136 operations per cycle or 136 * 550 = 74.8 GOps per second.

Given the Xbox 360 GPU's multithreading and balanced design, you really can't compare the two systems in terms of shading operations per clock. However, the Xbox 360's GPU can do 48 ALU operations (each can do a vector4 and scalar op per clock), 16 texture fetches, 32 control flow operations, and 16 programmable vertex fetch operations with tessellation per clock for a total of 48*2 + 16 + 32 + 16 = 160 operations per cycle or 160 * 500 = 80 GOps per second.

microsofts-xbox-360-vs-sonys-playstation-3-20050520041731831.jpg


Overall, the automatic shader load balancing, memory export features, programmable vertex fetching, programmable triangle tesselator, full rate texture fetching in the vertex shader, and other "well beyond shader model 3.0" features of the Xbox 360 GPU should also contribute to overall rendering performance.

Bandwidth
The PS3 has 22.4 GB/s of GDDR3 bandwidth and 25.6 GB/s of RDRAM bandwidth for a total system bandwidth of 48 GB/s.

The Xbox 360 has 22.4 GB/s of GDDR3 bandwidth and a 256 GB/s of EDRAM bandwidth for a total of 278.4 GB/s total system bandwidth.


microsofts-xbox-360-vs-sonys-playstation-3-20050520041730222.jpg


I am definitely getting the 360 but not solely based on the aforementioned comparison. I have had a long standing love hate relationship with Sony; they always promise big and deliver small. They suppose to have the new blu ray DVD play back capability but a winner between it and HD has yet to be determined. Also, there was a rumor that it could cost in excess of 500 dollars. Further to MS benefit, this time I think they are finally getting it, they have "Final Fantasy" on board plus a whole slew of RPGs in the pipeline from other Japanese developers. One more thing, the dev kits that the developers were using for E3 were operating on less than a quarter of the performance capability and if Gears of War looked that good already I can't wait to see it when it is released. This generation Sony won big time due to the head start and brand loyalty, the next generation it appears that MS is replicating what Sony did, time will tell whether it works or not but so far they are delivering the goods.
 

LatinG187

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I'm an XBOX owner so I will more likely go with the XBOX 360.I have heard that the XBOX 360 will be limited backwards compadability(sp?).They said that most EA Sports games,the GTA series,Halo 1 and 2 among other games will be backwards compatiable.That is a good thing considering I own quite a few EA Sports games and the Halo and Halo2 games as well.If I had the money I would check out the PS3 too.
 

adbutcher

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LatinG187 said:
I'm an XBOX owner so I will more likely go with the XBOX 360.I have heard that the XBOX 360 will be limited backwards compadability(sp?).They said that most EA Sports games,the GTA series,Halo 1 and 2 among other games will be backwards compatiable.That is a good thing considering I own quite a few EA Sports games and the Halo and Halo2 games as well.If I had the money I would check out the PS3 too.
I get what you are saying but I won't call it limited. I read that they are aiming to get their top games to compile on the Xbox 360 first and if all goes well the lesser titles should be playable. It should be similar to the PS1 to PS2, whereas all the previous PS1 games weren’t 100% compatible with the PS2.
 

Tio

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that report was created by microsoft. Take it with a grain of salt.
 

adbutcher

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Based on the measures regardless of who performed them really provides some moving evidence towards the purchase of a 360. Do you have any research that refutes M$'s claims?
 

Tio

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No, but I question how microsoft got these measurables.
 
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