QB and their 1 targets (Dak & Dez)

[percyhoward]

So 5 of the other 6 are TE. This is not even a fair comparison. If we want to do a fair comparison do it with the #1 targets for WR's

Yeah the first thing I that I saw was that they are tight ends so this comparison is not totally fair.

It's not about position or deeper targets. All the receivers in the sample below are wide receivers, and all the targets are 15+yards.

Same quarterbacks from OP
15+yard targets to WR only

Smith
12 of 23 466 yd 4 td 0 int 137.2

Brady
22 of 41 617 yd 3 td 2 int 102.9

Cousins
7 of 19 199 yd 2 td 0 int 111.5

Wentz
14 of 40 486 yd 4 td 1 int 104.7

Rodgers
8 of 21 300 yd 2 td 1 int 97.8

Prescott
to Bryant 2 of 12 54 yd 0 td 0 int 45.8
to others 7 of 9 226 yd 1 td 0 int 155.7

Remember, these are the league's top-rated passers, so most of the players they target are going to have high passer ratings on their targets, no matter what position they play. The point of the OP is that when a guy with a low passer rating on his targets is your most-targeted receiver, your QB's passer rating suffers.

 

[Proof]

Getting too nitpicky here, but doesn’t Dak have like a perfect rating to Brice. Wonder what the full break down is by target

 

[Proof]

It's not about position or deeper targets. All the receivers in the sample below are wide receivers, and all the targets are 15+yards.

Same quarterbacks from OP
15+yard targets to WR only

Smith
12 of 23 466 yd 4 td 0 int 137.2

Brady
22 of 41 617 yd 3 td 2 int 102.9

Cousins
7 of 19 199 yd 2 td 0 int 111.5

Wentz
14 of 40 486 yd 4 td 1 int 104.7

Rodgers
8 of 21 300 yd 2 td 1 int 97.8

Prescott
to Bryant 2 of 12 54 yd 0 td 0 int 45.8
to others 7 of 9 226 yd 1 td 0 int 155.7

Remember, these are the league's top-rated passers, so most of the players they target are going to have high passer ratings on their targets, no matter what position they play. The point of the OP is that when a guy with a low passer rating on his targets is your most-targeted receiver, your QB's passer rating suffers.

That looks especially bad by comparison.

Again tho I’m curious of the breakdown of targets in general not Dez vs composite stats. He’d still clearly come out on the wrong end but I’m curious.

Also where are you getting the numbers

 

[percyhoward]

That looks especially bad by comparison.

Again tho I’m curious of the breakdown of targets in general not Dez vs composite stats. He’d still clearly come out on the wrong end but I’m curious.

Also where are you getting the numbers

I get lazy sometimes.

https://www.pro-football-reference....cation[]=DM&pass_location[]=DR&order_by=yards

 

[Proof]

Lol thanks. I have never paid too much attn to pff. Suppose I should if I’m going to be arguing.

 

[percyhoward]

The problem with passer rating is that a few plays can skew that number. Such as the INT to Aqib Talib in the Denver game. The ball was tipped at the LOS. If Bryant catches it, it's a TD. If it's incomplete, it doesn't kill his rating. But the INT, which was no fault of Bryant at all, makes that number look far worse than it actually is.

Your example illustrates your point well, but low completion percentage is what's hurting the rating on Dez's targets.

 

[NeonDeion21]

Your example illustrates your point well, but low completion percentage is what's hurting the rating on Dez's targets.

Which is correct.

However, there is a large number of uncatchable targets that have went Dez's way because he was the last read. I post a few charts of those in another thread. I'll have to dig for them.

 

[percyhoward]

Which is correct.

However, there is a large number of uncatchable targets that have went Dez's way because he was the last read.

If Dez is frequently the last read, that would seem to go a long way toward explaining his low catch rate on (slower developing) 15+yard targets since the beginning of 2013. What it wouldn't explain is why he's so often the last read, or why we don't see that same thing happening with other #1 WR in the league.

 

[Denim Chicken]

 

[CWR]

Yeah I am not willing to lay this at Dez's feet solely. He's had his issues, including some drops but Prescott has missed him on throws when open and has missed even seeing him open at times. I still think the staff doesn't use Bryant as creatively as other teams use their top targets either.

It's a bizarre dynamic for sure.

Its a perfect storm of need to get better.

 

[ufcrules1]

He does lock in on Dez. Sometimes drives me nuts when he tries to jam it into him. And he certainly did spread the ball around much better last year without him in the lineup.

Yeah, he was in the zone big time last year. Did a great job making his reads and finding the open man. He is doing good this year too.. just needs look for the open man instead of forcing to Dez.

 

[birdwells1]

If Dez is frequently the last read, that would seem to go a long way toward explaining his low catch rate on (slower developing) 15+yard targets since the beginning of 2013. What it wouldn't explain is why he's so often the last read, or why we don't see that same thing happening with other #1 WR in the league.

Hopefully you can answer this, I've been on the bandwagon of "they have him running the wrong type of patterns". This stop and deep out routes against man and man over coverage doesn't allow for separation from the cbs. I really think that the crossing routes, slants or routes that take him away from the coverage would suite him better. What is your opinion?

 

[NeonDeion21]

If Dez is frequently the last read, that would seem to go a long way toward explaining his low catch rate on (slower developing) 15+yard targets since the beginning of 2013. What it wouldn't explain is why he's so often the last read, or why we don't see that same thing happening with other #1 WR in the league.

And then by route before the SF game:



As for the last read part of the discussion, I'll try to answer that when I get a little more free time.

 

[percyhoward]

Hopefully you can answer this, I've been on the bandwagon of "they have him running the wrong type of patterns". This stop and deep out routes against man and man over coverage doesn't allow for separation from the cbs. I really think that the crossing routes, slants or routes that take him away from the coverage would suite him better. What is your opinion?

What gets my attention is all the wasted targets. I don't even know for sure that the main focus of the coaches is to try to get Dez open. Sometimes they're trying to get him open, and other times they're just having him run a lot of what are essentially dummy routes, designed to help other receivers get open. I'll defer to one of the all-22 guys as to how much of the former is happening, and how much of the latter.

In any case, it's hard to criticize what the offensive coaches are doing when we're #2 in points per drive and #1 in TD per drive.

 

[birdwells1]

What gets my attention is all the wasted targets. I don't even know for sure that the main focus of the coaches is to try to get Dez open. Sometimes they're trying to get him open, and other times they're just having him run a lot of what are essentially dummy routes, designed to help other receivers get open. I'll defer to one of the all-22 guys as to how much of the former is happening, and how much of the latter.

In any case, it's hard to criticize what the offensive coaches are doing when we're #2 in points per drive and #1 in TD per drive.

True but I remember in last years first Giant game, someone charted that both Dez and Williams ran the most "go" routes in thee league that weekend, which to me are clear out routes. I feel that Dallas beats teams that they are more talented than but against teams with equal talent, where coaching is at a premium we don't do so well.