Quarterbacking is in steep decline

[Corso]

Fantastic thread and debate guys. Really making me think. I'm liking the page...

 

[Toruk_Makto]

Not me, but I have doubts about both.

Newton just misses too many receivers, throws too many picks, and doesn't command an offense. He is a big SOB though.

It's not as if Newton has had a plethora of talent or an elite line around him or anything.

Still has found ways to get it done more often than not in a division that features Dre Brees and Matt Ryan.

What qbs has Luck consistently outdueled in division?

 

[sureletsrace]

It's about player development.

Imagine if we were having this conversation in 2003 or 2004 or 2005. Would anybody be saying that Romo was going to be the next franchise QB for any team?

We had Parcells who should go down as the greatest developer of QB's ever (either him or Bill Walsh) and that's how Romo became a great QB.

I watch a lot of Jacksonville games and I think Blake Bortles has some real talent. But, he has very little in the way of weapons and a terrible O-Line.

I think RG3 has talent, but the Skins made the worst move by starting him right away. He had serious mechanical flaws and by starting him right away those issues never got addressed.

If anything, your list shows a major flaw with starting QB's right away. Draft them and then develop them and then start them....and continue the development process.





YR

 

[Toruk_Makto]

Career 98 QB rating despite having the worst collection of WRs in the league over the 4 years he has been QBing the Seahawks.

His Career QB rating is higher than Romo's.

Not saying he is a better QB than Romo, however, when Wilson throws the ball generally he throws it well.

The thing he is missing is volume. He simply isn't asked to throw it very much. Let us see how he does when he is handling a workload expected of elite qbs.

 

[Corso]

Fantastic thread and debate guys. Really making me think. I'm liking the page...

Shoot! This went on page 4! Well... I'm a man of my word.
Hope you guys deserve it.

And to remain remotely on topic:

I really do think the recent rule changes in the last decade and a half have inflated QB's and WR's abilities on the field to the point where we truly can't compare eras fairly.
This is a hard one, when you factor in everything and how the game has evolved along with CFB's evolving play also.

 

[LocimusPrime]

1993 quarterbacks

Troy Aikman
Jim Kelly
Brett Farve
Warren Moon
Steve Young
John Elway
Phil Simms
Drew Bledsoe
Boomer Esiason
Joe Montana
Vinny Testeverde
Jeff Hostetler
Steve Buerlein
Randall Cunningham
Steve DeBerg
Rodney Peete
Mark Rypien
Neil O'Donnell
Bobby Hebert

It doesn't look like that anymore.

I feel ya. Those first 6 on your list. Much respect. Damn i forgot how awesome qbs used to be

 

[windward]

Quarterbacks taken in the first three rounds from 1986-1995. It isn't pretty outside of Aikman and Favre

Jim Everett
Chuck Long
Jack Trudeau
Bubby Brister
Hugh Millen
Robbie Bosco
Vinny Testaverde
Kelly Stouffer
Chris Miller
Jim Harbaugh
Cody Carlson
Tom Tupa
Chris Chandler
Troy Aikman
Steve Walsh
Timm Rosenbach
Mike Elkins
Billy Joe Tolliver
Anthony Dilweg
Erik Wilhelm
Jeff George
Andre Ware
Tommy Hodson
Peter Tom Willis
Neil O'Donnell
Dan McGwire
Todd Marinovich
Brett Favre
Browning Nagle
David Klingler
Tommy Maddox
Dave Brown
Matt Blundin
Tony Sacca
Drew Bledsoe
Rick Mirer
Billy Joe Hobert
Heath Shuler
Trent Dilfer
Steve McNair
Kerry Collins
Todd Collins
Kordell Stewart
Stoney Case
Eric Zeier

 

[xwalker]

List of Quarterbacks drafted in the first three rounds from 1996-2005. Looks pretty similar to me.

Tony Banks-below average starter
Bobby Hoying-bust
Jim Druckenmiller-bust
Jake Plummer-average starter
Peyton Manning Hall of Fame
Ryan Leaf- Bust
Charlie Batch- Career backup
Jonathon Quinn- Bust
Brian Griese- below average starter
Tim Couch- Bust
Donovan McNabb- above average starter
Akili Smith- bust
Daunte Culpepper- above average starter
Cade McNown- Bust
Shaun King- Bust
Brock Huard- Bust
Chad Pennington- above average starter
Giovanni Carmazzi- bust
Chris Redman- Bust
Michael Vick- average starter
Drew Brees- Hall of Fame
Quincy Carter- Bust
Marques Tuiasosopo- Bust
David Carr-Bust
Joey Harrington-Bust
Patrick Ramsey- Bust
Josh McCown- career backup
Carson Palmer- above average starter
Byron Leftwich- bust
Kyle Boller- bust
Rex Grossman- below average starter
Dave Ragone- bust
Chris Simms- bust
Eli Manning- idiot
Philip Rivers- Elite player
Ben Roethlisberger- Elite player
JP Losman- Bust
Matt Schaub- Decent starter
Alex Smith- average
Aaron Rodgers- Hall of Fame
Jason Campbell- average
Charlie Frye- Bust
Andrew Walter- Bust
David Greene- Bust

So we have Peyton, Brees, Ben,, Rodgers as Hall of Fame type players. Maybe Rivers. A handful of okay players and a lot of busts.

I really think teams should have known better on most of the failed QBs. I'm certain that a quality investigation would have shown that Ryan Leaf had mental issues. It seemed obvious that Alex Smith had limited upside. Chris Simms seemed like a stiff in college. Quincy...really? Teams really overlooked some issues with some of the running QBs like Vick because they could dazzle at times (see Tebow).

Some players might have be ruined by their situations. I always thought that Jason Campbell could have been a decent QB if he had been drafted and stayed in a stable situation. Carr and Harrington both seemed doomed in their situations. Pennington might have been really good with a better supporting cast especially on his OLine.

McNabb obviously had some talent but seemed to be a bit stupid. I would compromise in some areas when drafting a QB, but would never compromise on the mental makeup aspect.

There were only a few that had thought were safe picks at the time they were drafted:
Peyton Manning: Seemed like a slam dunk.
Carson Palmer: Seemed like a safe bet to be decent.
Eli Manning: Seemed like a safe bet to be good enough although upside seemed limited.
Philip Rivers: Seemed like a safe bet as long as coaches didn't try to alter his throwing motion.
Ben Roethlisberger: Seemed like a safe bet to be as least OK.
Aaron Rodgers: Seemed like a value pick at #24 overall. Did the teams that passed on him even interview him?

My biggest miss was that I thought Drew Henson was worth the 3rd round pick that the Cowboys gave up for him.

 

[Corso]

Quarterbacks taken in the first three rounds from 1986-1995. It isn't pretty outside of Aikman and Favre

Jim Everett
Chuck Long
Jack Trudeau
Bubby Brister
Hugh Millen
Robbie Bosco
Vinny Testaverde
Kelly Stouffer
Chris Miller
Jim Harbaugh
Cody Carlson
Tom Tupa
Chris Chandler
Troy Aikman
Steve Walsh
Timm Rosenbach
Mike Elkins
Billy Joe Tolliver
Anthony Dilweg
Erik Wilhelm
Jeff George
Andre Ware
Tommy Hodson
Peter Tom Willis
Neil O'Donnell
Dan McGwire
Todd Marinovich
Brett Favre
Browning Nagle
David Klingler
Tommy Maddox
Dave Brown
Matt Blundin
Tony Sacca
Drew Bledsoe
Rick Mirer
Billy Joe Hobert
Heath Shuler
Trent Dilfer
Steve McNair
Kerry Collins
Todd Collins
Kordell Stewart
Stoney Case
Eric Zeier

Lol, you led the list with Chris Everett.
I'll never forget Jim Rome's taunting and Everett's meltdown on camera.

Beautiful.

 

[xwalker]

Quarterbacks taken in the first three rounds from 1986-1995. It isn't pretty outside of Aikman and Favre

Jim Everett
Chuck Long
Jack Trudeau
Bubby Brister
Hugh Millen
Robbie Bosco
Vinny Testaverde
Kelly Stouffer
Chris Miller
Jim Harbaugh
Cody Carlson
Tom Tupa
Chris Chandler
Troy Aikman
Steve Walsh
Timm Rosenbach
Mike Elkins
Billy Joe Tolliver
Anthony Dilweg
Erik Wilhelm
Jeff George
Andre Ware
Tommy Hodson
Peter Tom Willis
Neil O'Donnell
Dan McGwire
Todd Marinovich
Brett Favre
Browning Nagle
David Klingler
Tommy Maddox
Dave Brown
Matt Blundin
Tony Sacca
Drew Bledsoe
Rick Mirer
Billy Joe Hobert
Heath Shuler
Trent Dilfer
Steve McNair
Kerry Collins
Todd Collins
Kordell Stewart
Stoney Case
Eric Zeier

Atlanta's QBs the year they traded Farve to the Packers:
Chris Miller
Billy Joe Tolliver
Wade Wilson

 

[windward]

Atlanta's QBs the year they traded Farve to the Packers:
Chris Miller
Billy Joe Tolliver
Wade Wilson

Yep. They were banking on Chris Miller being their franchise guy.

 

[Wood]

I chuckle every time I hear it. Dallas needs to draft a quarterback. The Cowboys aren't grooming anybody to replace Romo. We need a good backup.

My question would be.......who? What teams have this strapping lad in waiting as a surefire "next" guy in their organization. Most starters in the NFL are lousy these days. The backups are even worse.

Fast forward five years when Peyton, Brees, Brady, and Romo are retired. Who will be the top five quarterbacks circa 2020?

Perhaps an aged Aaron Rodgers in his twilight, Andrew Luck, Andy Dalton, Russell Wilson, and Matt Ryan? Seriously? I realize others yet drafted could work their way into that fold, but are any of these young guys inspiring images as future all-time greats?

Factor in the complete lack of training colleges are providing quarterbacks for the NFL, and it boggles my mind why anybody would waste a first round pick on a quarterback these days. The most recent picks have been so gawd awful, that we ladle Andrew Luck with praise befitting of Johnny Unitas. The fact is, there is still much for Luck to learn, and he's an interception machine at times.

The nature of the QB position was already a crapshoot. Now, factor in this epidemic of one-read high school read-option offenses that have taken over college football, and the future doesn't look so bright.

Let's take a look at the last 10 years of quarterbacks taken in the first three rounds:

Jameis Winston ROOKIE
Marcus Marriotta ROOKIE
Garrett Grayson ROOKIE
Sean Mannion ROOKIE
Blake Bortles PENDING
Johnny Manziel BUST
Teddy Bridgewater PENDING
Derek Carr PENDING
Jimmy Garoppolo PENDING
EJ Manuel BUST
Geno Smith BUST
Mike Glennon BUST
Matt Barkley BUST
Andrew Luck
Robert Griffin BUST
Ryan Tannehill PENDING
Brandon Weeden BUST
Brock Osweiler PENDING
Russell Wilson (Overrated, but OK)
Nick Foles LIKELY BUST
Cam Newton PENDING
Jake Locker BUST
Blaine Gabbert BUST
Christian Ponder BUST
Andy Dalton
Colin Kaepernick VIRTUAL BUST
Ryan Mallett BUST
Sam Bradford BUST
Tim Tebow BUST
Jimmy Clausen BUST
Colt McCoy BUST
Matt Stafford
Mark Sanchez BUST
Josh Freeman BUST
Pat White BUST
Matt Ryan
Joe Flacco
Brian Brohm BUST
Chad Henne BUST
Kevin O'Connell BUST
JaMarcus Russell BUST
Brady Quinn BUST
Kevin Kolb BUST
John Beck BUST
Drew Stanton BUST
Trent Edwards BUST
Vince Young BUST
Matt Leinart BUST
Jay Cutler VIRTUAL BUST
Kellen Clemens BUST
Tavaris Jackson BUST
Charlie Whitehurst BUST

It isn't pretty. There are precious few quarterbacks on the planet capable of playing at an elite level in the NFL, and Dallas is lucky to have one. This notion that you just groom somebody up to be next sounds awesome, but it's comes with an incredibly high failure rate along with it.

These days, quarterbacks are going to take 4-5 years to prepare because of the simplistic college offensive schemes, so why spend a high draft pick on a guy that will become a free agent at the time he MIGHT be ready?

I believe the level of play at the quarterback position is going to take a steep decline in the coming years. The hope is, college recruits will start to demand pro style offenses to sign with schools because the money and draft position starts drying up in the NFL for quarterbacks.

Until then, it's best not to waste valuable draft picks on them unless unusually sure about a player. Rather, go get somebody in free agency when you need them. Let somebody else take the risk and spend the time developing them, and focus draft picks on more predictable commodities.

you make really good case for what Gosselin wrote about early in week in that future QB of Cowboys is currently playing in Detroit. I do think Romo replacement is coming via FA. Jerry is just too old to wait on hitting young oil well.

 

[windward]

And finally, the quarterbacks drafted in the first three rounds from 1976-1985. I think it's fairly clear that the quality of Qbs entering the draft has changed all that much.

Richard Todd
Mike Kruczek
Jeb Blount
Tommy Kramer
Glenn Carano
Doug Williams
Matt Cavanaugh
Guy Benjamin
Mark Miller
Gifford Nielsen
Jack Thompson
Phil Simms
Steve Fuller
Joe Montana
Marc Wilson
Mark Malone
Gene Bradley
Rich Campbell
Dave Wilson
Neil Lomax
Ray Stachowicz
Art Schlichter
Jim McMahon
Oliver Luck
Matt Kofler
John Elway
Todd Blackledge
Jim Kelly
Tony Eason
Dan Marino
Ken O'Brien
Boomer Esaison
Jeff Hostetler
Rick McIvor
Jay Schroeder
Bernie Kosar
Randall Cunningham
Frank Reich

 

[PJTHEDOORS]

And anyone who says Russel Wilson is just "okay" doesn't know quarterbacking. The guy is a good/near great QB.

good.

 

[Vtwin]

It's hard to argue against the OP's point as it relates to college football preparing these kids for the pro game. The talent and ability will still be there with many of them though. It will be up to the pro scouts to identity those with those attributes and the coaches to develop them. The development will take time though. Picking a QB has always been a crap shoot. It will likely be even more so but the good staffs will still be able to find and develop a quality starter.

 

[lostar2009]

You can go down another skill position group and find the same number of bust. It's the scouting departing and hc to to find someone they feel fits their system and can flourish. By your logic we should not draft a qb or take a shot at it. But the truth is at this point we should. Romo isn't young and has major back issues. This is the third time he miss a lot of playing time due to an injury. Besides McGee back in 2009 we have not touch the qb position except for signing udfa and wash ups. You should always be looking for quality qbs if you can. Roger/ White, Joe Montana/ Steve Young, McNabb/Foles, Bledsole/Brady, Favre/ Rodgers, Bledsole/Romo.. just to name off the top of my head. All was waiting and some of those guys went on to play elsewhere.

 

[xwalker]

you make really good case for what Gosselin wrote about early in week in that future QB of Cowboys is currently playing in Detroit. I do think Romo replacement is coming via FA. Jerry is just too old to wait on hitting young oil well.

The only way the Cowboys can sign Stafford is if the Lions don't franchise him. If they don't franchise him or give him a new contract then he is probably not playing that well.

Gosselin's "plan" could be thrown out there for any QB whose contract is going to expire in that time frame.

 

[xwalker]

And finally, the quarterbacks drafted in the first three rounds from 1976-1985. I think it's fairly clear that the quality of Qbs entering the draft has changed all that much.

Richard Todd
Mike Kruczek
Jeb Blount
Tommy Kramer
Glenn Carano
Doug Williams
Matt Cavanaugh
Guy Benjamin
Mark Miller
Gifford Nielsen
Jack Thompson
Phil Simms
Steve Fuller
Joe Montana
Marc Wilson
Mark Malone
Gene Bradley
Rich Campbell
Dave Wilson
Neil Lomax
Ray Stachowicz
Art Schlichter
Jim McMahon
Oliver Luck
Matt Kofler
John Elway
Todd Blackledge
Jim Kelly
Tony Eason
Dan Marino
Ken O'Brien
Boomer Esaison
Jeff Hostetler
Rick McIvor
Jay Schroeder
Bernie Kosar
Randall Cunningham
Frank Reich

Yes, I think you've shown that (@erod)'s list of current busts was not really any worse than it has been historically.

 

[Supercowboy1986]

This topic has already been discussed about qbs drafted the last few years have been terrible and like with that poster I agree with you as well.
I am tired of the tards on this forum who keep saying the Cowboys org has failed because we haven't drafted a qb to groom and blah blah blah despite there literally has not been anyone good to groom let alone draft (that has been feasible to draft for the Cowboys without giving up the farm ala rg3 trade.) the funny thing is the same people who are so stupid that make this argument would be the first ones to call the org a failure or bad at identifying talent because we would waste picks on qbs who suck and don't develop. The only positive thing is that there will never be a shortage of people to bag my groceries or take my order when I go somewhere to eat. People on this forum (or shall I say children?) need to learn how to think before they speak and get a clue, it literally is not rocket science.

I chuckle every time I hear it. Dallas needs to draft a quarterback. The Cowboys aren't grooming anybody to replace Romo. We need a good backup.

My question would be.......who? What teams have this strapping lad in waiting as a surefire "next" guy in their organization. Most starters in the NFL are lousy these days. The backups are even worse.

Fast forward five years when Peyton, Brees, Brady, and Romo are retired. Who will be the top five quarterbacks circa 2020?

Perhaps an aged Aaron Rodgers in his twilight, Andrew Luck, Andy Dalton, Russell Wilson, and Matt Ryan? Seriously? I realize others yet drafted could work their way into that fold, but are any of these young guys inspiring images as future all-time greats?

Factor in the complete lack of training colleges are providing quarterbacks for the NFL, and it boggles my mind why anybody would waste a first round pick on a quarterback these days. The most recent picks have been so gawd awful, that we ladle Andrew Luck with praise befitting of Johnny Unitas. The fact is, there is still much for Luck to learn, and he's an interception machine at times.

The nature of the QB position was already a crapshoot. Now, factor in this epidemic of one-read high school read-option offenses that have taken over college football, and the future doesn't look so bright.

Let's take a look at the last 10 years of quarterbacks taken in the first three rounds:

Jameis Winston ROOKIE
Marcus Marriotta ROOKIE
Garrett Grayson ROOKIE
Sean Mannion ROOKIE
Blake Bortles PENDING
Johnny Manziel BUST
Teddy Bridgewater PENDING
Derek Carr PENDING
Jimmy Garoppolo PENDING
EJ Manuel BUST
Geno Smith BUST
Mike Glennon BUST
Matt Barkley BUST
Andrew Luck
Robert Griffin BUST
Ryan Tannehill PENDING
Brandon Weeden BUST
Brock Osweiler PENDING
Russell Wilson (Overrated, but OK)
Nick Foles LIKELY BUST
Cam Newton PENDING
Jake Locker BUST
Blaine Gabbert BUST
Christian Ponder BUST
Andy Dalton
Colin Kaepernick VIRTUAL BUST
Ryan Mallett BUST
Sam Bradford BUST
Tim Tebow BUST
Jimmy Clausen BUST
Colt McCoy BUST
Matt Stafford
Mark Sanchez BUST
Josh Freeman BUST
Pat White BUST
Matt Ryan
Joe Flacco
Brian Brohm BUST
Chad Henne BUST
Kevin O'Connell BUST
JaMarcus Russell BUST
Brady Quinn BUST
Kevin Kolb BUST
John Beck BUST
Drew Stanton BUST
Trent Edwards BUST
Vince Young BUST
Matt Leinart BUST
Jay Cutler VIRTUAL BUST
Kellen Clemens BUST
Tavaris Jackson BUST
Charlie Whitehurst BUST

It isn't pretty. There are precious few quarterbacks on the planet capable of playing at an elite level in the NFL, and Dallas is lucky to have one. This notion that you just groom somebody up to be next sounds awesome, but it's comes with an incredibly high failure rate along with it.

These days, quarterbacks are going to take 4-5 years to prepare because of the simplistic college offensive schemes, so why spend a high draft pick on a guy that will become a free agent at the time he MIGHT be ready?

I believe the level of play at the quarterback position is going to take a steep decline in the coming years. The hope is, college recruits will start to demand pro style offenses to sign with schools because the money and draft position starts drying up in the NFL for quarterbacks.

Until then, it's best not to waste valuable draft picks on them unless unusually sure about a player. Rather, go get somebody in free agency when you need them. Let somebody else take the risk and spend the time developing them, and focus draft picks on more predictable commodities.

 

[mattjames2010]

You can go down another skill position group and find the same number of bust. It's the scouting departing and hc to to find someone they feel fits their system and can flourish. By your logic we should not draft a qb or take a shot at it. But the truth is at this point we should. Romo isn't young and has major back issues. This is the third time he miss a lot of playing time due to an injury. Besides McGee back in 2009 we have not touch the qb position except for signing udfa and wash ups. You should always be looking for quality qbs if you can. Roger/ White, Joe Montana/ Steve Young, McNabb/Foles, Bledsole/Brady, Favre/ Rodgers, Bledsole/Romo.. just to name off the top of my head. All was waiting and some of those guys went on to play elsewhere.

First off, Foles didn't come into the league until 2012, McNabb was gone after the 09 season.

You then list Bledsoe/Brady and Bledsoe/Romo. One was a near undrafted QB, the other was an undrafted QB. Every team looks at QBs in the undrafted free agent market.