Question for any kickers or kicking experts...

[Hoofbite]

Just gotta accept the fact that he just isn't that good at kicking off.

He doesn't have a touchback and opponents are starting a little past the 30 for season.

Not really all that great.

 

[Chuck 54]

Ever played golf?

Did your line drive tee shot travel as far in the air as the one you hit high?

Even with the roll a golf ball gets, I'm guessing most of your tee shots travel further when you hit them with the proper trajectory...that tells me all I need to know.

Dang, I hope it's warm enough for golf on Friday.

 

[Chuck 54]

On the other hand, I've always thought that there have to be kickoff specialists, who have strong legs that can easily reach the endzone with a running start and a tee, but have no accuracy for fg's. Sort of like a "long drive" specialist to keep the golf metaphor going.

My question has always been, "Why not find a kickoff specialist for the roster?" To my thinking, he only replaces one guy on the roster, and if he can put the ball in the endzone consistently, isn't he worth more than one of the special teams guys? I know those guys often play on the other special teams too, but you a few of the guys you hope can run and tackle on the kickoff team are very different than the guys who all have to block for the punt team before covering, who have to block for fg's.

I'm obviously wrong or most teams would do it, but I've always thought a kickoff specialist would be well worth the roster spot...if he could put it in the endzone most of the time.

 

[Hostile]

Hos?...

I didn't consider that but wouldn't that make it harder to get distance on FGs?

I'm not a kicker so I don't know. Let's ask Hostile!

ask hos.

How did I know my name was going to be dragged through the mud like a trussed up pig?

:bang2:

I put some mistletoe right above my trash so that you guys know what to kiss.

:moon:

Ya bastids.

 

[joseephuss]

On the other hand, I've always thought that there have to be kickoff specialists, who have strong legs that can easily reach the endzone with a running start and a tee, but have no accuracy for fg's. Sort of like a "long drive" specialist to keep the golf metaphor going.

My question has always been, "Why not find a kickoff specialist for the roster?" To my thinking, he only replaces one guy on the roster, and if he can put the ball in the endzone consistently, isn't he worth more than one of the special teams guys? I know those guys often play on the other special teams too, but you a few of the guys you hope can run and tackle on the kickoff team are very different than the guys who all have to block for the punt team before covering, who have to block for fg's.

I'm obviously wrong or most teams would do it, but I've always thought a kickoff specialist would be well worth the roster spot...if he could put it in the endzone most of the time.

For some teams a kick off specialist is worth the roster spot and for other teams it is not. Dallas has had some injury concerns, so it may not be worth the spot for them this season.

I agree with the earlier post about what happens when you miss hit a line drive kick. It will give the return man a lot of time to run before the coverage teams can get down field.

 

[Doomsday101]

I think Folks kickoffs are fine we just have to do a better job on coverage. In the 9ers game coverage team made some nice plays but we also had a break down allowing a good return.

 

[Temo]

A 50-yard field goal doesn't usually go 70 yards. Most of them would go less than 10 yards past end zone before hitting the ground. That's maybe 60 yards in the air. Some might go longer, but most of them would not.

And kickoffs are from the 30, not the 35. Folk consistently kicks at least to the 8-yard line (a 62-yard kickoff), usually farther, and has had a number of them go 70-plus yards (to the end zone or into it).

According to STATS Inc, he's averaging 61.3 yards per kick off, the lowest in the league by about a yard. So it's not "usually farther" than 62 yards. I agree about the rest though (source: http://sports.myway.com/nfl/stats/league/kickoffaverage.html)

For everyone's information, the deepest kickoffs belong to Sebastian Janikowski at 69.8 (over a half-yard more than next guy, Josh Brown of Seattle at 69.2).

With Folk, I agree with Adam that a 50 yard field goal kick usually travels about 60 yards in the air. I hate trig so I won't try to prove it for now, but it certainly seems probable.

I think he could certainly get more distance, if Read hadn't coached him not to. I think Read thinks that he can cut down on big returns by kicking it shorter. And he's probably right. But that doesn't make it optimal... personally I would have him boom them and let the coverage unit worry about it.

 

[AdamJT13]

According to STATS Inc, he's averaging 61.3 yards per kick off, the lowest in the league by about a yard. So it's not "usually farther" than 62 yards. I agree about the rest though (source: http://sports.myway.com/nfl/stats/league/kickoffaverage.html)

Those include squibs and intentionally short kickoffs (not sure about onside kicks). I went through all of his kickoffs, and the majority are 62-68 yards.

Here are all of his kickoffs --

vs. CLEVELAND
64
70
63
55 (squib before halftime)
66

vs. PHILADELPHIA
69
69
66
65
36 (squib before halftime)
67
62
63

vs. GREEN BAY
64
63
60
51 (squib before halftime)
63
65

vs. WASHINGTON
70
70
65
13 (onside)

vs. CINCINNATI
67
70
72
64
67
49 (pooch with less than 2:00 left)

vs. ARIZONA
63 (returned for touchdown)
37 (pooch before halftime, muffed and recovered by Dallas)
56 (semi-pooch)
50 (semi-pooch with 2:00 remaining)

vs. ST. LOUIS
64
67
51 (semi-pooch with 1:50 remaining)

vs. TAMPA BAY
19 (squib/onside with 0:01 left in half)
69
73

vs. NEW YORK GIANTS
63
59
57

vs. WASHINGTON
65
62
56

vs. SAN FRANCISCO
63
65
52
65
66
62
63
62


That's 53 kickoffs, of which 38 went at least 62 yards. Ten others were intentional onside/squib/pooch kickoffs, either near the end of halves or against Arizona (after they returned the opening kickoff for a TD). The other five went 60, 59, 57 and 52 yards. Two of those were in New York, where the Giants' kicker got only one out of his six kickoffs more than 60 yards (the others went 56, 57, 60, 59 and 57), so maybe the wind/cold was a factor.

 

[AbeBeta]

I've always wondered why a kicker like Nick Folk who can kick a 50+ yard field goal that has to have a lot of height in order to clear the line and the goal posts cant just boot a line drive on kick-offs that would go out of the endzone.

Folk's issue seems to not be leg strength but directional kicking. If he was allowed to kick it straight down the middle, he'd likely hit the end zone more regularly. But you can't kick off that way in the NFL.

Folk may not be great on the kickoffs but I don't see him as a major liability. He's not as good as you'd like but you have to let him keep doing it so that he can develop into a better kickoff guy.

This is part of the game that takes some guys a while. Neil Rackers was mediocre on kickoffs for his first few years, now he's awesome

 

[RoadRunner]

I honestly believe that whoever has been teaching kickoffs on this team needs to be fired. Dallas has had short kickoffs for a few years now no matter who the kicker is.

Whats worse is that kickers that used to kick for Dallas and could never get a touchback go to other teams and have no trouble kicking off for the occasional touchback. I'm talking guys like Suisham for example.

Folk has not had a single touchback since early last season.

 

[AbeBeta]

I honestly believe that whoever has been teaching kickoffs on this team needs to be fired. Dallas has had short kickoffs for a few years now no matter who the kicker is.

Whats worse is that kickers that used to kick for Dallas and could never get a touchback go to other teams and have no trouble kicking off for the occasional touchback. I'm talking guys like Suisham for example.

Folk has not had a single touchback since early last season.

Yes. By all means, lets screw with Folk's approach to kicking. Maybe we can screw up his field goal kicking as well.

 

[cowboyz]

I honestly believe that whoever has been teaching kickoffs on this team needs to be fired. Dallas has had short kickoffs for a few years now no matter who the kicker is.

Whats worse is that kickers that used to kick for Dallas and could never get a touchback go to other teams and have no trouble kicking off for the occasional touchback. I'm talking guys like Suisham for example.

Folk has not had a single touchback since early last season.

yeah, i think it's something they're taught.

 

[Chief]

Hos?...

:laugh2:

 

[fanfromvirginia]

Those include squibs and intentionally short kickoffs (not sure about onside kicks). I went through all of his kickoffs, and the majority are 62-68 yards.

Here are all of his kickoffs --

vs. CLEVELAND
64
70
63
55 (squib before halftime)
66

vs. PHILADELPHIA
69
69
66
65
36 (squib before halftime)
67
62
63

vs. GREEN BAY
64
63
60
51 (squib before halftime)
63
65

vs. WASHINGTON
70
70
65
13 (onside)

vs. CINCINNATI
67
70
72
64
67
49 (pooch with less than 2:00 left)

vs. ARIZONA
63 (returned for touchdown)
37 (pooch before halftime, muffed and recovered by Dallas)
56 (semi-pooch)
50 (semi-pooch with 2:00 remaining)

vs. ST. LOUIS
64
67
51 (semi-pooch with 1:50 remaining)

vs. TAMPA BAY
19 (squib/onside with 0:01 left in half)
69
73

vs. NEW YORK GIANTS
63
59
57

vs. WASHINGTON
65
62
56

vs. SAN FRANCISCO
63
65
52
65
66
62
63
62


That's 53 kickoffs, of which 38 went at least 62 yards. Ten others were intentional onside/squib/pooch kickoffs, either near the end of halves or against Arizona (after they returned the opening kickoff for a TD). The other five went 60, 59, 57 and 52 yards. Two of those were in New York, where the Giants' kicker got only one out of his six kickoffs more than 60 yards (the others went 56, 57, 60, 59 and 57), so maybe the wind/cold was a factor.

Geez, that was a thing of beauty.

 

[HoosierCowboy]

a tee gives you loft not distance and I would discourage a kicker from kicking differently, otherwise he might screw up his form and timing--like trying to use the same iron no matter the distance by either hitting the ball hard or soft

 

[SilberBlau]

from my understanding Bruce Read wants Folk to kick it high instead of far because of coverage... ideally he would like both but that isn't as easily done as some believe it is.

Well, that brilliant strategy results in the worst starting field position in the league and they may think again about it. If it is strategy. I doubt it. If your kicker can give you a touchback every time, you'll take it every time.
I can hardly believe that a well paid specialist can't drive it that long, but I have to admit that I never kicked a football.

 

[LandryFan]

Ever played golf?

Did your line drive tee shot travel as far in the air as the one you hit high?

Even with the roll a golf ball gets, I'm guessing most of your tee shots travel further when you hit them with the proper trajectory...that tells me all I need to know.

Dang, I hope it's warm enough for golf on Friday.

Exactly the analogy I was thinking of, Wayne.

 

[LandryFan]

On the other hand, I've always thought that there have to be kickoff specialists, who have strong legs that can easily reach the endzone with a running start and a tee, but have no accuracy for fg's. Sort of like a "long drive" specialist to keep the golf metaphor going.

My question has always been, "Why not find a kickoff specialist for the roster?" To my thinking, he only replaces one guy on the roster, and if he can put the ball in the endzone consistently, isn't he worth more than one of the special teams guys? I know those guys often play on the other special teams too, but you a few of the guys you hope can run and tackle on the kickoff team are very different than the guys who all have to block for the punt team before covering, who have to block for fg's.

I'm obviously wrong or most teams would do it, but I've always thought a kickoff specialist would be well worth the roster spot...if he could put it in the endzone most of the time.

I, too have wondered the same thing. Seems like it would definitely be worth a roster spot for the value gained. However, when you have a few players injured and inactive for a game or three, that could put a real bind on having enough backup help for the game, special teams notwithstanding.

 

[ABQcowboyJR]

Its pretty hard to kick it that far. I don't have alot of experience kicking a football but a soccer ball is another story. I can easily kick one of those sixty to seventy yards on any day. I can not drive it nearly as far as i can kick it though. I would imagine that it is much harder to drive a football as far as you can kick it.