Question for our X's and O's guys

[Floatyworm]

Our defensive line isn't good...its not very hard to understand

People need to understand...of the 8 man rotation we had last year....we are replacing 5 of those guys...and T. Crawford is coming back from injury. So there is hope.

Tapper>Mincey
Collins>McClain
Russell>coming off redshirt year
Mayowa..stepping in for Lawrence
Thornton>Hayden

I'd still lke to see some competion brought in to fill the shoes for Hardy and Gregory. And I haven't given up on Wilber pitching in @ DE as well.

 

[big dog cowboy]

People need to understand...of the 8 man rotation we had last year....we are replacing 5 of those guys...and T. Crawford is coming back from injury. So there is hope.

Tapper>Mincey
Collins>McClain
Russell>coming off redshirt year
Mayowa..stepping in for Lawrence
Thornton>Hayden

Wait wait wait wait. I thought we didn't upgrade the DL this off season. It's true. Read it in here many times. Daily in fact.

 

[JBS]

Sounds like we have 53 all pros on this roster

I've read it here many times...

 

[Floatyworm]

Wait wait wait wait. I thought we didn't upgrade the DL this off season. It's true. Read it in here many times. Daily in fact.

Well...I think we have tried to upgrade. Trying and doing are two different things unfortunately. We may even have some mild success...but really the one glarring hole we have is.... Who is filling in for Gregory/RDE the first 4 weeks? I think in the end it's gonna be Tapper 1st/2nd down and then (fill in the blank)...and Wilber.

I'm just not sure you will ever be able to rely on Gregory. If he doesn't show anything this year...I think you cut bait..and move on.

But in the mean time....We gotta be looking @ the cuts hard. Or possibly even making a deal.

 

[jazzcat22]

I understand the position just fine...I also fully understand we aren't getting a push from the middle from Thornton or anyone else outside of Crawford on a consistent basis...seems to me that the one w a poor understanding here is you

How do you know we won't get a pass rush from Thornton. In Rod's scheme and plans for him, may be used differently than he was in Philly.
Both, as well as all of the DL just may compliment each other now. Better talent, better play. Yes, we need to see it. And chance are it will be better than worse.

At least that is the way most fans should look at it. Instead of hanging your head all the time and think bad things will happen.

 

[jazzcat22]

Sounds like we have 53 all pros on this roster

I've read it here many times...

No you haven't read that...you read into it because that is the way most of the negatives thinkers act...like we should have all pros. They can't / won't understand ALL teams have to have role players and not all are superstars...but they act as if 31 teams have 53 all pro players and we have very few.

 

[JBS]

No you haven't read that...you read into it because that is the way most of the negatives thinkers act...like we should have all pros. They can't / won't understand ALL teams have to have role players and not all are superstars...but they act as if 31 teams have 53 all pro players and we have very few.

Correct...so why can't you guys understand that our role players are on the DL?

 

[JBS]

How do you know we won't get a pass rush from Thornton. In Rod's scheme and plans for him, may be used differently than he was in Philly.
Both, as well as all of the DL just may compliment each other now. Better talent, better play. Yes, we need to see it. And chance are it will be better than worse.

At least that is the way most fans should look at it. Instead of hanging your head all the time and think bad things will happen.

Nobody is hanging their head...I expect this DL to be pretty similar to 15 and 14..why is that doom and gloom?

 

[jazzcat22]

Nobody is hanging their head...I expect this DL to be pretty similar to 15 and 14..why is that doom and gloom?

Because there are constant posts on how this team and FO suck. Not just the d, but everything.
But many posts on the d and it's woes, and they fail to see anything good, not one thing good about the D. They can fathom that this d can turn it around and improve.

As a fan, I look at it, we have the chance to improve, yes, as always, we need to see it, but that goes for every team. I refuse to look at it as...well, here we go again, we didn't get the 7 all pros THAT I WANTED in the draft, so we will suck....
Even in 1989, I knew we were going no where, but I didn't go around blasting anything and everything.

 

[Seven]

I don't think in terms of certainties based on qualitative generalizations. I think in terms of a spectrum of possible outcomes.

Both have the ability to consistently beat single blocks. I am willing to evaluate after the fact.

That hurt my head, but you nailed it.

15 likes................

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Nobody is hanging their head...I expect this DL to be pretty similar to 15 and 14..why is that doom and gloom?

Are you really going to now act coy to all of the digs you've put on the DL as being 'bad' and such these pat couple of days? Youre taking the tactic of hedging expectations and hardly even talking about football as its played on the field.

Preseason predictions are garbage. Last year we were supposed to do well and the year before that poorly. Anything can happen.

Crawford had 5 sacks with one arm last year. He has a lot of upper body strength and short area quickness making his very difficult to single block.

David Irving is a physical specimen built like Leon Lett. If he uses proper technique it is very difficult for even long armed OT to get their hands on him much less the stubby interior OL. He's now had a year under Woicik.

We haven't had a guy like Thornton on the roster with the quickness and lower body strength to anchor since Rat decided to start dogging it in 2013. All those middle runs that Hayden let blow by him will be clogged. The Giants ate our lunch doing it amongst others. Now teams will be more 1 dimensional if nothing else allowing our guys to pin their ears back and make a whole hell of a lot easier fills for our S and LB.

DLaw and Gregory are suspended and not dead. DLaw has proven he can consistently rush the passer beating single blocks the past two years. Gregory is the most physically gifted DL we have.

All of those guys have frontline talent that is apparent now.

The role players are guys like Mayowa, Russell, Tapper, Collins, JCrawford, and McClain. All of them have upside in one way or another to become more than that but if nothing else they make for excellent depth which we have not had since Bill Parcells was coaching.

We also have a DC whose claim to fame is developing DL talent.

Now I get that all of them could get hurt or underperform. The difference is that I am not going to fixate on it and expect is because I cannot handle being disappointed.

 

[JBS]

Are you really going to now act coy to all of the digs you've put on the DL as being 'bad' and such these pat couple of days? Youre taking the tactic of hedging expectations and hardly even talking about football as its played on the field.

Preseason predictions are garbage. Last year we were supposed to do well and the year before that poorly. Anything can happen.

Crawford had 5 sacks with one arm last year. He has a lot of upper body strength and short area quickness making his very difficult to single block.

David Irving is a physical specimen built like Leon Lett. If he uses proper technique it is very difficult for even long armed OT to get their hands on him much less the stubby interior OL. He's now had a year under Woicik.

We haven't had a guy like Thornton on the roster with the quickness and lower body strength to anchor since Rat decided to start dogging it in 2013. All those middle runs that Hayden let blow by him will be clogged. The Giants ate our lunch doing it amongst others. Now teams will be more 1 dimensional if nothing else allowing our guys to pin their ears back and make a whole hell of a lot easier fills for our S and LB.

DLaw and Gregory are suspended and not dead. DLaw has proven he can consistently rush the passer beating single blocks the past two years. Gregory is the most physically gifted DL we have.

All of those guys have frontline talent that is apparent now.

The role players are guys like Mayowa, Russell, Tapper, Collins, JCrawford, and McClain. All of them have upside in one way or another to become more than that but if nothing else they make for excellent depth which we have not had since Bill Parcells was coaching.

We also have a DC whose claim to fame is developing DL talent.

Now I get that all of them could get hurt or underperform. The difference is that I am not going to fixate on it and expect is because I cannot handle being disappointed.

What's so difficult for you to understand? Our DL wasn't good in 14 and it wasn't good in 15...I expect this DL to be similar...it's not very hard to comprehend

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

What's so difficult for you to understand? Our DL wasn't good in 14 and it wasn't good in 15...I expect this DL to be similar...it's not very hard to comprehend

Again with the emotional qualitative generalizations without any rational basis. I'm trying to talk about specifics with reason to back it up. I get what you expect thus my comment on hedging expectations.

Mincey, Selvie, Hardy, and Hayden are gone. They were all starters from the past 2 years who are now gone. Expecting the same thing with a new cast is nonsense. That is before you consider the level of depth we have now which we have not had the past two years.

 

[big dog cowboy]

Mincey, Selvie, Hardy, and Hayden are gone. They were all starters from the past 2 years who are now gone. Expecting the same thing with a new cast is nonsense. That is before you consider the level of depth we have now which we have not had the past two years.

 

[rpntex]

We dont have many pass rushers that are good from the inside

Most of the guys you mentioned are ends...not tackles

Collins will miss darn near all preseason...he won't make an impact early...Thornton isn't a pass rusher

Thornton's gonna play the 1-tech. In Marinelli's scheme, the 1T isn't EXPECTEDLY to be a pass rusher. His role is to draw double teams to allow the 3T (Crawfoed, who IS a pass rusher) to go 1on 1 with the guard.

also, Irving did the majority of his damage last year on the inside, not at DE. He's being looked at as a DE this year, but he'll still provide some depth on the inside until Collins is back.

DE is where all the questions lie.

 

[Aven8]

The Collins injury sucked. I know he will be back, but will see. I could see the pup as well.

He's the most intriguing player we got IMO. We have nobody like him that is quick twitch with hands at the 3. I can't wait to see this guy.

 

[rpntex]

I understand the position just fine...I also fully understand we aren't getting a push from the middle from Thornton or anyone else outside of Crawford on a consistent basis...seems to me that the one w a poor understanding here is you

Evidently, you don't - not if you expect a Marinelli 1-tech to be a pass rusher.

 

[LocimusPrime]

Theres alot of articles (local and national) as well as tons of commentary an discussion on the local radio shows concerning our defensive line.

We have alot of uncertainty on the defensive line which is filled with unproven talent. I believe that all of our DEs have combined for a total of 16 nfl sacks.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Sounds like we have 53 all pros on this roster

I've read it here many times...

You know there is more than just good and bad, all pro and jag, and elite and scrub right?

This is what I was talking about in regards to a spectrum of outcomes. Each team only has at most a few all pros. Most teams have none on their DLs as there are only 8 every year and 32 teams. There are hundreds of DL in the league with an entire range of skill and ability beyond two oversimplified categories based on how you feel.

That is why I prefer to discuss things in terms of what players actually can and cannot do. While you say Hayden is bad, I say he lacks upper body strength and quickness which inhibits his ability to get off blocks while not having any pass rush moves to speak of other than a bull rush. When I compare players I compare that they can and cannot do. If you look at the rosters in 2014 as opposed to this year in such a manner as opposed to remembering how they made you feel you might feel better.

You should try expanding your mind and try to think of things as they really specifically and in detail are as opposed to the good and bad paradigm. I would also recommend Nietzsche's Genealogy of Morals where your preferred way of looking at things is discussed in particular.

 

[TrailBlazer]

Crawford should be better with Thornton as his DLine mate. I'm looking for a Hatcher type 10 sack year from him. He is capable of that. Other than that I don't see much of a pass rush until DLAW and Gregory get back.