Questioning offensive philosophy

[diehard2294]

You and I have talked about this before, VA, but I wish we could run the Shanahan/Kubiak offense. I get Houston games in my area and they usually don't play at the same time we do, so I see at least parts of their games quite a bit. And it is amazing how often Schaub -- who isn't half as good as Romo -- finds guys running open. I mean, wide, wide open. Why, because they run the ball effectively and play action off of it. I bet Romo's numbers would be absolutely insane in that offense and just as importantly, with less risk because so many throws are very high-percentage with big windows.

True CL but I think Romo could play fake better.. at times he just reaches the ball out

 

[jobberone]

As I said, this isn't something that just hit me after the Seattle game. It's something I've noticed over the past couple of years. It's obvious our interior guys don't have the movement skill to support a stretch run game and boot play-action, but these are things that Tony Romo seems uniquely skilled to perform. (There's a reason Shanahan went after him hard out of college.) Garrett specifically said a coupla years ago he wanted a more mobile OL so the team could run more outside, more screens, etc. Why hasn't that happened?

Is the Washington OL really that much better than ours?

You're asking a great question that I admit I don't know the answer to. I'd ask Tony this if I had the right opportunity to do so. I can only contemplate why. I don't think the answer is Garrett is too stupid to do so or he's just too stubborn. There is likely very logical answers at this time but I don't know that for certain. The offense has often been a concern and the we knew what they were going to do crops up a little too often for my comfort.

 

[Doomsay]

This is a great thread, I really enjoy the 2nd order look into play selection and OL composition and technical strengths and weaknesses.

I'll have to say that the questioning of the snap analysis is a little silly though. The notion that the linked study is not statistically significant is misguided IMO. The survey wasn't a sample of last year's snaps by down and distance, it was the entire population of snaps (over 1000). The sample size would have a sampling error of +- 0%. It is what happened on the field, not a guess at it.

 

[noshame]

Clearly they read some of our plays, and tendencies. Watch the LB's, they read our formation and make calls, it's not coincedence teams are constantly stunting right into our plays.

 

[ConstantReboot]

:laugh1: :laugh1:

has it even been 1 year?

he had no off season last year, so that doesnt count

he has a reworked OL this year and several new players, so this year shouldnt count

i think next year should be considered JGs rookie season

what say you?

I'm sick and tired of us saying that JG needs more time. Come on. His already been our OC since 2007 and now his our head coach. His been here for almost a decade now. Thus why are we still using that excuse that Garrett needs more time to learn how to coach? If his a head coach and needs to learn how to coach, then it just goes to show he really isn't qualified.

 

[ConstantReboot]

(I posted this in another forum as well.)

This is heresy, but...

I do not and will never understand an offense (like Garrett's--and many others) that doesn't take every opportunity to help itself succeed. Why does Garrett hardly ever use play action or any other type of ball fake (other than the draw)? I think RG3 is a star in the making, but every play in Shanahan's offense sets up several others and makes his QB's job a lot easier. Romo's skill and athleticism is perfect for play passes and boot action. Instead, the Cowboys line up in the I and Romo passes from a straight seven step drop. I don't get it. Am I wrong? Can anyone set me straight?

About 5 years ago our offense was very potent. We never had problems putting points up on the board. One of our main weapons was the play action. Romo used it quite frequently. Even though that the linebackers knew that Romo was going to pass the ball, they had to stop for a split second to make sure that we weren't going to run. With that split second from the play action, Witten is able to get a small separation on the LB and therefore get an opening for a pass from Romo. It would always work like a charm and Witten then was unstoppable.


Once Garrett took over, we have completely gotten away from the play action. Witten now is used mostly as a decoy and his not as clutch as he once was. I don't know why Garrett went away from what worked before. But I do know is that because of him, we haven't been scoring as much. Remember, we were once one of the top scoring team in the NFL. Garrett's playcalling has brought us to mediocrity.

 

[BrassCowboy]

(I posted this in another forum as well.)

This is heresy, but...

I do not and will never understand an offense (like Garrett's--and many others) that doesn't take every opportunity to help itself succeed. Why does Garrett hardly ever use play action or any other type of ball fake (other than the draw)? I think RG3 is a star in the making, but every play in Shanahan's offense sets up several others and makes his QB's job a lot easier. Romo's skill and athleticism is perfect for play passes and boot action. Instead, the Cowboys line up in the I and Romo passes from a straight seven step drop. I don't get it. Am I wrong? Can anyone set me straight?

Man, I don't know how long I have been saying this. When Romo started out and we were all like Wow, who is this guy. Romo was aloud to do what he did best, and that was do a lot of bootleg and passes on the run. He shown alot more freedom with his game, but you can tell over the years he was starting to play more and more in a box. He gotten pretty good at the pocket thing, but you can tell it was a coached thing. I know he gets a little wild and might of lead to a few of his ints but I feel you shouldn't stifle a good thing.

I am with you, I think allow Romo a little more freedom to play his game, and yes definitely more play action.

 

[Sarge]

My OP isn't a comment on the Seattle game. I've had this question for a couple years.

I personally think our playcalling is poor and our playbook itself sucks.

 

[Aven8]

I personally think our playcalling is poor and our playbook itself sucks.

This.

It has for years. The only reason we have been up there in stats is because of Romo. Pretty sad really. 5 rushing TD's last year should spell it out for you without any charts.

 

[ConstantReboot]

I swear, we are probably the only team in the NFL that doesn't have a play action pass in our play book. Just about every team that I watched used it to some extent. With the mobility of Romo, and his high QB ratings outside of the pocket, I don't know why we NEVER, EVER take advantage of this.

 

[Roadtrip635]

You and I have talked about this before, VA, but I wish we could run the Shanahan/Kubiak offense. I get Houston games in my area and they usually don't play at the same time we do, so I see at least parts of their games quite a bit. And it is amazing how often Schaub -- who isn't half as good as Romo -- finds guys running open. I mean, wide, wide open. Why, because they run the ball effectively and play action off of it. I bet Romo's numbers would be absolutely insane in that offense and just as importantly, with less risk because so many throws are very high-percentage with big windows.

I'm with you on this, it really is amazing how many wide open looks Schaub gets when they run that PA bootleg. Even before Foster, they ran that play and would get a guy running wide open all by himself. They run that play 2-4 times a game and almost always has someone completely open. Andre would have a bunch more TD's if Schaub had the arm strength to get it deep on those plays.

 

[Eskimo]

As I said, this isn't something that just hit me after the Seattle game. It's something I've noticed over the past couple of years. It's obvious our interior guys don't have the movement skill to support a stretch run game and boot play-action, but these are things that Tony Romo seems uniquely skilled to perform. (There's a reason Shanahan went after him hard out of college.) Garrett specifically said a coupla years ago he wanted a more mobile OL so the team could run more outside, more screens, etc. Why hasn't that happened?

Is the Washington OL really that much better than ours?

Well we actually did accumulate a very mobile OL but then a few bad things happened:

1. Kosier who was great at pulling just lost his legs altogether and had to be let go as he was routinely getting overpowered.

2. Phil Costa hurt his back.

3. Kevin Kowalski really messed up his ankle. He probably is the best player we have in space.

4. Bill Nagy who was great in space broke his ankle again and then was waived while on IR and plucked from our roster.

So we had these 4 mobile players and they all got hurt so we haven't been able to use them at all.

Now Livings is apparently okay on the move. I don't know much about Mack or Cook. This OL needs about half a season to gel here as they just didn't get any practice reps in TC and are completely knew to the guys beside them. Not one single player has ever played with the OL on either side of him before. Many had not even practiced with the guy beside him 2 weeks before the start of the season. Mack is coming off knee and hip surgeries.

So in the end, we have actually ended up with an OL that doesn't have any cohesion and that doesn't have much mobility. The Guards anchor better so hopefully this will help in short yardage and eventually give Romo a better pocket.

I still lay a lot of blame on not drafting OGs this year to put in our system. There were some good ones in the second and third round who could be starting right now in front of Mack who looks like a guy better suited to backup G/C role he had in Carolina. Livings has been good. Cook has struggled but he is supposed to be a veteran backup.

The one big hope I have for our OL is that Kowalski gets healthy and puts Cook on the bench. I also hope that Jerry wises up and pays for Holland and this puts Mack on the bench.

This would give us this OL which could be pretty good:

Smith Livings Killer Holland Free

I guess we'll see how the unit does but I'm not holding my breath after the stinker they put up in Seattle.

 

[Idgit]

Well we actually did accumulate a very mobile OL but then a few bad things happened:

1. Kosier who was great at pulling just lost his legs altogether and had to be let go as he was routinely getting overpowered.

2. Phil Costa hurt his back.

3. Kevin Kowalski really messed up his ankle. He probably is the best player we have in space.

4. Bill Nagy who was great in space broke his ankle again and then was waived while on IR and plucked from our roster.

So we had these 4 mobile players and they all got hurt so we haven't been able to use them at all.

Now Livings is apparently okay on the move. I don't know much about Mack or Cook. This OL needs about half a season to gel here as they just didn't get any practice reps in TC and are completely knew to the guys beside them. Not one single player has ever played with the OL on either side of him before. Many had not even practiced with the guy beside him 2 weeks before the start of the season. Mack is coming off knee and hip surgeries.

So in the end, we have actually ended up with an OL that doesn't have any cohesion and that doesn't have much mobility. The Guards anchor better so hopefully this will help in short yardage and eventually give Romo a better pocket.

I still lay a lot of blame on not drafting OGs this year to put in our system. There were some good ones in the second and third round who could be starting right now in front of Mack who looks like a guy better suited to backup G/C role he had in Carolina. Livings has been good. Cook has struggled but he is supposed to be a veteran backup.

The one big hope I have for our OL is that Kowalski gets healthy and puts Cook on the bench. I also hope that Jerry wises up and pays for Holland and this puts Mack on the bench.

This would give us this OL which could be pretty good:

Smith Livings Killer Holland Free

I guess we'll see how the unit does but I'm not holding my breath after the stinker they put up in Seattle.

Drafting OL would have pushed guys we wanted to develop (many of whom ended up injured in TC) off the roster altogether, and then left us thinner at other spots while still developing the OL position.

We were better off filling the positions we filled and going the FA OG route. We can do the same again next offseason with a better idea of what we've really got along the OL after all the changes the last two years, and we can also add a quality interior player in the early rounds and give him the spot of whichever of the project players fail to deliver this season. I agree that Mack's looked like a marginal starter/key backup so far.

The OL wasn't the issue in SEA, though. They didn't play great, but we had far bigger problems from higher-profile personnel. And they held up well in NY, other than the penalties.

 

[Tabascocat]

Drafting OL would have pushed guys we wanted to develop (many of whom ended up injured in TC) off the roster altogether, and then left us thinner at other spots while still developing the OL position.

We were better off filling the positions we filled and going the FA OG route. We can do the same again next offseason with a better idea of what we've really got along the OL after all the changes the last two years, and we can also add a quality interior player in the early rounds and give him the spot of whichever of the project players fail to deliver this season. I agree that Mack's looked like a marginal starter/key backup so far.

The OL wasn't the issue in SEA, though. They didn't play great, but we had far bigger problems from higher-profile personnel. And they held up well in NY, other than the penalties.

Spot on, the OL is not that good, but we should be able to get our fair share of points with them. Playcalling is limiting this offense and Garrett needs to work in some play action and setting the receivers in motion, especially if Dez can't get off the line well enough.

We are not the only team with offensive line issues; however, it is magnified because we are the Cowboys. We very well may come out and destroy the Bucs, but the main problems will still be there in the following weeks.

 

[ElGatoGrande]

The OL wasn't the issue in SEA, though. They didn't play great, but we had far bigger problems from higher-profile personnel. And they held up well in NY, other than the penalties.

You say that like you're trying to convince yourself,,, is it working? I mean, the fact that they totally stamped out the running game and pressured Romo into a dozen early throws with 7 or less in the box didn't have much to do with Seattle punking the offense.

 

[tomsanders921]

:laugh1: :laugh1:

has it even been 1 year?

he had no off season last year, so that doesnt count

he has a reworked OL this year and several new players, so this year shouldnt count

i think next year should be considered JGs rookie season

what say you?

The problem is playcalling and the stubborness to not change your gameplan mid-game.

I have never seen a team look so great on offense one day and look so bad and out of sync the next game. It happens all the time. With this offense it is either full steam ahead or 3 and out after 3 and out.

If the defenses gameplan is working against our offense we are screwed because we NEVER make adjustments.

Look at last week. The defense is playing tight man to man coverage. Why not hit them with some double moves and quick slants?

And don't get me started on the pass rush. If romo is getting pressured like crazy, we never seem to make the adjustment to quick passes and misdirection plays to keep the defense honest.

Here is an all too familiar offensive possession for us:
1st down. Romo drops back, under heavy pressure, incomplete.
2nd down. Romo drops back, under heavy pressure, incomplete/nearly intercepted.
3rd down. Romo takes 7 step drop, sacked.

And then we go on to do the exact same thing the next possession.

It's almost as if our coaches refuse to make in game adjustments. They are either too stubborn to get away from the gameplan or just plain stupid.

If it's not working you have to do something different.

Wasn't it albert einstein who said insanity is doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results?

If that's the case our whole coaching staff could go on a killing spree and get acquitted of all charges by pleading insanity.

 

[VACowboy]

If I could have one wish for the Dallas Cowboys, I would wish that Red would wise up, see what he has in Romo and hire a guy off the Texans staff to coordinate his offense.

 

[AmericasTeam31]

I just want to see Miles or Dez using there speed to get open across the field instead of down the field. Every route in our playbook is has a vertical element to it. When the Texans run the play action bootleg their receivers are open because they are using their speed to beat their man across the field (where a safety over the top doesn't matter). You don't have to only use speed vertically to get open...

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

(I posted this in another forum as well.)

This is heresy, but...

I do not and will never understand an offense (like Garrett's--and many others) that doesn't take every opportunity to help itself succeed. Why does Garrett hardly ever use play action or any other type of ball fake (other than the draw)? I think RG3 is a star in the making, but every play in Shanahan's offense sets up several others and makes his QB's job a lot easier. Romo's skill and athleticism is perfect for play passes and boot action. Instead, the Cowboys line up in the I and Romo passes from a straight seven step drop. I don't get it. Am I wrong? Can anyone set me straight?

how many games have you looked at? just hte seattle game? just wondering how you are basing your comments

 

[Gaede]

I think teams are content to let us get a ton of yards and then shoot outselves in the foot the closer we get to the endzone. This team has such a big problem scoring.

I'd love to see how many of our big play TDs last year were the result of Romo improvising. It seems to me that's how we get all of our big plays.