Race, the Rooney Rule and the Saints coaching search

[cajuncocoa]

Bill Parcells and the Saints' mutual interest in one another is, by now, no secret.

Coach Sean Payton's suspension for his role in a pay-for-pain bounty program begins Sunday, and the team must soon fill the vacated position. The Rooney Rule, adopted in 2003, requires that a team interview at least one minority candidate for coaching and front office jobs.

Now that New Orleans' courtship of Parcells has become so public, former NFL head coach Herm Edwards says the Saints are out of line with the spirit of the rule if they go ahead and hire Parcells."They're making a mockery of the rule right now," Edwards said.

More: http://content.usatoday.com/communi...and-the-saints-coaching-search/1#.T3YC_tUxnjU

 

[basstapp]

I think the rule is ridiculous, but that just my opinion. The reason the saints are interested in hiring him is because their is a previous relationship. If I were a minority I would want to be interviewed for my skill set and resume, not because they have to fill a token interview.

 

[cajuncocoa]

I think the rule is ridiculous, but that just my opinion. The reason the saints are interested in hiring him is because their is a previous relationship. If I were a minority I would want to be interviewed for my skill set and resume, not because they have to fill a token interview.

My feelings exactly.

 

[Hoofbite]

I think this situation is a little bit different than most.

We're talking about a vacancy for a year. How many guys even want to take a job that they will lose no matter how successful they are?

I have mixed opinions on the Rooney Rule.

I think it's generally all for show in practice but provides the opportunity for guys to get league-wide exposure that they otherwise would not get.

Even if a guy is a compliance interview, if he impresses a specific team his name will get out. Teams talk and if a guy comes in and blows the doors off the interview, word will get around.

I've also always thought that tenured, successful coaches should be allowed to be hired without complying.

Superbowl winning coaches aren't flooding the market every year. If you have success and have some trophies to back you up, who is anyone to argue that you are not the best candidate regardless of race?


I think it's kind of ridiculous for Herm to openly call it a "sham" like that.

It's not his call to make regarding if it's a "sham" or not.

Even if he knows he won't get the job, maybe the minority interviewee views it as an opportunity to meet people, get his name out and experience the process.

Whether or not it's a "sham" should be up to the guy being interviewed. I don't think it's fair for anyone in the media to call it a "sham" because maybe some guys would love to take what they can from it and try to use it to their advantage in the future. Now that you've called it a "sham", you've essentially said the guy is wasting his time and may have swayed him from wanting to go.

 

[DBOY3141]

The rule is a joke anyway.

Most of the time they just go through the motions.

Did anyone have a chance to replace Wade except Garrett?? Hell no.

Did SF want anyone besides Harbaugh??

Enough with political correctness.

 

[basstapp]

I can understand this rule 20 - 50 years ago, but racism is all quite equal these days. Not saiyng there, are not racists around but the majority of people have no issue with minority coaches or players

 

[burmafrd]

the Rooney rule was PC PR BS.

And it was too late to mean anything anyway by about 10 years.

So what if a minority gets a interview and is impressive.

Singletary got his HC job basically because he blew the doors off in his interview. And how good a coach was he?

That has happened more than a few times with coaches of all colors.

And this is truly a unique situation. and those whining that there should not be exceptions are morons. There are ALWAYS exceptions to every rule.

And this rule is a joke anyway since the owners almost always know exactly who they want.

 

[John813]

Rooney rule is BS and should be abolished. Teams will hire the best qualified person to coach their team, no matter of race.

I wonder how Bowles felt going to multiple Head Coaching vacanies just because of this rule?

 

[Rogah]

I can't stand the Rooney Rule because I think it is a slap in the face to bring in someone for what is clearly nothing more than a complete sham interview.

 

[Hoofbite]

I can understand this rule 20 - 50 years ago, but racism is all quite equal these days. Not saiyng there, are not racists around but the majority of people have no issue with minority coaches or players

I don't think the issue is about racism per se. I think it's about underrepresentation as a result of inertia from a time when people did consider race.

 

[AbeBeta]

I don't think the issue is about racism per se. I think it's about underrepresentation as a result of inertia from a time when people did consider race.

Finally, someone bringing intelligent analysis to this thread

 

[koolaid]

The rooney rule is a joke. Its embarrassing and the NFL should just do away with it.

 

[The30YardSlant]

I don't think the issue is about racism per se. I think it's about underrepresentation as a result of inertia from a time when people did consider race.

The rule implies that black coaches are less able to get jobs on their own merit and thus require this rule to "even the playing field". It's not only a slap in the face but it is incredibly condescending as most of the minority interviews are done JUST to appeal to this rule and the organization has no intention of ever hiring anyone but their first choice.

Also, this coming season 5 of 32 NFL head coaches will be black (almost 16%). 28% of assistant coaches will be black. African-Americans as a whole make up 12% of the US population. Black coaches are actually overrespresented in the NFL coaching ranks. And spare me the "They make up the majority of players" nonsense. Paying and coaching are completely independent, a good player does not necessarily make a good coach and vice-versa.

 

[Hoofbite]

The rule implies that black coaches are less able to get jobs on their own merit and thus require this rule to "even the playing field". It's not only a slap in the face but it is incredibly condescending as most of the minority interviews are done JUST to appeal to this rule and the organization has no intention of ever hiring anyone but their first choice.

I've seen this take on it before I think it it's a mischaracterization of the situation.

It's not so much about the black coach being less worthy of a position but about ownership being unwilling to hire a black coach regardless of merit.

That's why the rule exists because there was a time when that was absolutely true.

I think people try to spin the intent of the rule so that the rule appears to be something its not. It isn't about lifting the unqualified black coach to a position he could otherwise not achieve on his own. It's about giving a black coach an opportunity that he otherwise would not have gotten no matter how qualified he was.

And there are some who bring up the idea that ownership wouldn't currently turn down a more qualified black coach but that's not the point. Aside from the fact that nobody even knows for sure on that statement, that statement could be entirely true and that still doesn't qualify as a valid excuse to get rid of the rule.

If the system has been constructed over decades where white coaches hire white assistants who then become future white coaches, you can't just expect things to transform into some utopian situation the moment that hiring only white coaches becomes unacceptable.

Even if race bias was absolutely 100% out of the picture, it would still take years and years to get to a point where things would be as though they would have been had there never been race bias.

Go back however many years and look at the landscape of the NFL. All white coaches, all white coordinators, majority white positional coaches.

If the natural progression of coaching is assumed to run from positional coach > coordinator > head coach, where are the black head coaches going to come from?

If race is 100% out of the picture, black coaches would first have to gain equal footing at the positional level just to have an equal likelihood of moving to the coordinator level and then they would have to gain equal footing at the coordinator level before having an equal opportunity to move to the head coaching level.

How long would that take?

Also, this coming season 5 of 32 NFL head coaches will be black (almost 16%). 28% of assistant coaches will be black. African-Americans as a whole make up 12% of the US population. Black coaches are actually overrespresented in the NFL coaching ranks. And spare me the "They make up the majority of players" nonsense. Paying and coaching are completely independent, a good player does not necessarily make a good coach and vice-versa.

It doesn't have to. All playing has to do is increase probability to coach.

Good or bad coach doesn't matter. So long as playing opens the door to coach the percentage of players does matter.

Why is Ron Rivera the only Latino head coach? 1 guy to represent 16% of the population? I wonder why that is........

Why does the NBA have more black coaches than the NFL? Should be equal right?

 

[AbeBeta]

The rule implies that black coaches are less able to get jobs on their own merit and thus require this rule to "even the playing field". It's not only a slap in the face but it is incredibly condescending as most of the minority interviews are done JUST to appeal to this rule and the organization has no intention of ever hiring anyone but their first choice.

So before the rule was in place, Fritz Pollard, Art Shell, Dennis Green, Ray Rhodes, Tony Dungy, and Herm Edwards were the only African American coaches that were meritorious enough? In the entire history of the NFL?

That sure would be a nice explanation, but an unlikely one.

 

[Cajuncowboy]

Simply a stupid rule and it makes a mockery of what Black coaches have accomplished. To bring in a candidate based on race is racist in and of itself. Race should play ZERO part in the hiring process. Mike Tomlim once said that if it weren't for the Rooney rule, he wouldn't have gotten the job at Pittsburgh. Makes no sense since the rule was pushed by the team's president so hence it bears his name.

 

[AbeBeta]

Mike Tomlim once said that if it weren't for the Rooney rule, he wouldn't have gotten the job at Pittsburgh. Makes no sense since the rule was pushed by the team's president so hence it bears his name.

Actually, if you understand the context, it does make sense. Pittsburg had two outstanding internal candidates in Whisenhunt and Grimm. In most cases of that nature, the team is going to just promote one of them. Pitt was forced to conduct at least one additional interview with a minority applicant. That applicant impressed them and changed their thinking about who to hire.

See how things make sense if you actually give them though, rather than a knee jerk reaction?

 

[The30YardSlant]

So before the rule was in place, Fritz Pollard, Art Shell, Dennis Green, Ray Rhodes, Tony Dungy, and Herm Edwards were the only African American coaches that were meritorious enough? In the entire history of the NFL?

Nobody is naive enough to believe that, but racial bias was very prevalent over the NFL's first 60 years. It's intellectually dishonest to judge 1972 and 2012 on the same criteria.

 

[AbeBeta]

Nobody is naive enough to believe that, but racial bias was very prevalent over the NFL's first 60 years. It's intellectually dishonest to judge 1972 and 2012 on the same criteria.

It is intellectually dishonest to suggest that we are talking 1972. Up until 2003 those men I mentioned were the only African American coaches -- with Dungy being one of the glaring examples of a guy who was passed over again and again.

 

[arglebargle]

When I started watching football, there were NO black QBs in the NFL. There was actual, serious discussion as to whether blacks could play QB in the NFL. University of Alabama still had no black football players. Etc.

This didn't magickally disappear. The Rooney Rule is a reflection of this sort of historical fact. To keep it around a little after it's main intention is no longer needed is not that bad a thing. Whenever that is.