Random Draft Considerations

[Verdict]

First, we tried to take a QB higher than the 4th multiple times.

I'm just saying team are not taking the best player in a position where they are stacked. Every team accesses their units needs and picks the best player available according to their needs.

You think we're going to take an RB round one even if he's BPA--heck no.

I think the recent evidence suggests the contrary. But you are certainly entitled to your opinion.

 

[Verdict]

We're really at the team's mercy with J Smith and Tapper's injuries. They think they have an idea of where these guys are but we have no clue. DE or LB become serious issues if those guys can't go.

I think it is fair to say that they are greater needs if neither can GO or PLAY,.

 

[fishspill]

I think it is fair to say that they are greater needs if neither can GO or PLAY,.

I agree we need somebody with a pulse to fill out the secondary as we seem not to have enough quality candidates right now. However, DE and LB are below NFL playoff average as presently constituted IMO.

 

[Verdict]

Like I said, if theyre the best player remaining by far (last plyer left in the tier group) its not even debateable unless you feel like trading down. You take the player.
But Martin absolutely did play a position of need anyway. The guy can play 4 positions on the oline. But if Shazier had been there, we were not taking Martin.

Smith, Freddy, and Zeke were also players of need.

They weren't drafted based on need though. They were drafted based on talent level. Zeke wasn't a huge need. Many expected us to take Ramsey because of need over Zeke. We weren't expected to address running back until later in the draft.

 

[Verdict]

I agree we need somebody with a pulse to fill out the secondary as we seem not to have enough quality candidates right now. However, DE and LB are below NFL playoff average as presently constituted IMO.

I'm not sure that is entirely accurate, although I would agree that the team depth in those areas in terms of top notch talent is pretty thin. If Jaylon and Tapper can go it might be an entirely different picture though.

 

[Denim Chicken]

I think the recent evidence suggests the contrary. But you are certainly entitled to your opinion.

When we picked Tapper there were 8 players available ahead of him on our board.

 

[DFWJC]

They weren't drafted based on need though. They were drafted based on talent level. Zeke wasn't a huge need. Many expected us to take Ramsey because of need over Zeke. We weren't expected to address running back until later in the draft.

It sounds like Im being argumentative, but thats not my attention.

We seem to be agreeing but not entirely....which is fine.
There are varying degrees of need. RB WAS a need last year, just probably not the very top need. But they did say they thought a great RB could help them more than almost anything.

Some would say we reached for Zeke, actually. He certainly wasnt a clear BPA on most boards at 4th overall. We liked him better than others I guess.

 

[haleyrules]

It's so much easier to shout bpa in every thread. It's actually hilarious how draft successes are always bpa(or top of the board), but draft busts aren't. Nobody wants to talk about players who weren't bpa but became good players or the other way either.

They had a great draft last year so they must have drafted bpa.

Agreed. This term bpa is just an opinion and varies greatly depending on what side of the ball interests you most. The draft after the first rd is a real crapshoot. Heck, even the last half of the first round.

 

[xwalker]

Just a question. If the draft is supposed to be deep at DL ( idk that it is just repeating what I've seen on this thread) and we picked Charles tapper w pick #101 last year, how could our pick at #28 not be a better player. In theory shouldn't he be better than tapper

Pure talent is not the only thing that determines where a player gets drafted.

A lack of readiness to contribute can push talented players down. If somehow a player in the draft had trained for a year with an NFL team, then that player would have more value (especially to that team) than he would coming directly from college. This is especially true when the college scheme was significantly different than what the NFL team is running.

Imagine if Tapper had somehow skipped the 2016 draft and had trained with the Cowboys for all this time, then entered the 2017 draft.

Leaving out injury issues, he would have more value to the Cowboys in 2017 than in 2016. It probably does not bump him up from the 4th to the 1st, but it could.

Summary: Comparing Tapper to a player in this draft based on draft position is not an apples-to-apples comparison.

 

[xwalker]

Yeah, i'm just saying, looking at this draft, where are these BPA coming from that aren't on defense?

You have like 3 first round OL, 3 first round WR (a huge question mark in Ross' health), 2 first round TE's. Some RB's.

I literally have no idea who we'd take on offense that'd be BPA there because I don't see any of them there. Maybe if you had a legit grade on Zay Jones or something. But just looking at the draft, I think it's highly, highly likely it'll be defense as BPA.

If we're actually having a convo about who's really going to be there.

From a pure probability perspective, the position with more players rated in the area of the draft would have the highest probability of being the BPA, assuming the ratings are from credible sources.

Still, it only takes 1 player at any other position to fall to that pick and be the BPA relative to the Cowboys board.

Also, what if all the available players are rated as 2nd rounders or lower by the Cowboys? They might tell themselves that a player at the position of most availability will fall to their 2nd round pick. They've described using similar logic in the past. IIRC, they had CB Anthony Brown rated higher than Tapper on their board but used this type of logic to wait on Brown. I might be thinking of the wrong players but I do remember Stephen describing this logic in the recent past.

 

[haleyrules]

BPA is a myth--everyone drafts for need.

Yep. It doesn't make much sense to do otherwise. Need is your BPA!

 

[DFWJC]

It sounds like Im being argumentative, but thats not my attention.

We seem to be agreeing but not entirely....which is fine.
There are varying degrees of need. RB WAS a need last year, just probably not the very top need. But they did say they thought a great RB could help them more than almost anything.

Some would say we reached for Zeke, actually. He certainly wasnt a clear BPA on most boards at 4th overall. We liked him better than others I guess.

Intention, that is.....

 

[AsthmaField]

I respect your point of view and I acknowledge that none of us really know about the grades we have on players at this point, as it is proprietary, top secret stuff. You may well be right.

But I will say this .......I do not think that Mixon is the 4th best back in this draft. I think Mixon is in the mix as being the best overall back in this draft. If I recall he was a 5 star recruit coming out of high school and is arguably a more complete back than any back in the draft. Without the baggage, then he could really be in the mix in the top 10.

I am not saying that he is the next Zeke. I am saying that if he is the best back in the class and we have a top 10 grade on him, I don't care if you have Zeke on the roster or not, you pull the trigger on him (assuming that his character doesn't scare you off).

This time last year I heard tons of posters say no way we would take Zeke that high. Polian said it was a no brainer that the Cowboys would take Zeke if he was there at #4. He was spot on. He acted as if it was a foregone conclusion before it ever happened. That was late (probably the last 10 days before the draft).

Mixon is getting traction as a serious threat to go in the first round. The word on the street is that he is probably the best back in this draft. I think the buzz is starting to catch up with his actual grade. If he is not "in the box" and the grade is there, then I think he is in play. I grant you that wouldn't be ideal comparing to needs, but it is possible. Keep in mind the close relationship between Stoops and Jerry.

I wasn't one of the guys saying we weren't drafting Elliott. As a matter of fact, I was one of the guys saying we should take him and often had to defend my point of view vs. others who said taking a RB 4th was a bad move. I loved Elliott from his sophomore season at OSU and was absolutely certain he'd be a star in the NFL.

So I'm not against taking a RB high. Not at all.

I also agree that Mixon might be the best back in this draft. What I don't think is that Dallas has him ranked extremely high nor do I think they'll take him even if he is BPA. In part because of the off field stuff but primarily because of taking Elliott last year.

It just makes no sense. Not in round 1.

I'm in line with a lot of your thoughts in this thread... just not Mixon or Mahomes in the first.

 

[rambo2]

I respect your point of view and I acknowledge that none of us really know about the grades we have on players at this point, as it is proprietary, top secret stuff. You may well be right.

But I will say this .......I do not think that Mixon is the 4th best back in this draft. I think Mixon is in the mix as being the best overall back in this draft. If I recall he was a 5 star recruit coming out of high school and is arguably a more complete back than any back in the draft. Without the baggage, then he could really be in the mix in the top 10.

I am not saying that he is the next Zeke. I am saying that if he is the best back in the class and we have a top 10 grade on him, I don't care if you have Zeke on the roster or not, you pull the trigger on him (assuming that his character doesn't scare you off).

This time last year I heard tons of posters say no way we would take Zeke that high. Polian said it was a no brainer that the Cowboys would take Zeke if he was there at #4. He was spot on. He acted as if it was a foregone conclusion before it ever happened. That was late (probably the last 10 days before the draft).

Mixon is getting traction as a serious threat to go in the first round. The word on the street is that he is probably the best back in this draft. I think the buzz is starting to catch up with his actual grade. If he is not "in the box" and the grade is there, then I think he is in play. I grant you that wouldn't be ideal comparing to needs, but it is possible. Keep in mind the close relationship between Stoops and Jerry.

Mixon is the best back in the draft. It would be cool if he goes before 28. That means that 4 backs, 4qbs, 2tes, 2olineman, and 3wr could go before 28. That would be 15 offensive players and 12 defensive players go before the Cowboys pick.

 

[Denim Chicken]