Random observations. Panthers game

[CowboyFrog]

-Dont want to harp too much about the coaching. Itll take up too much space. It's our biggest problem IMO, and there's a fine line between being aggressive and flat out stupid. Its almost as if someone has something to prove beyond winning games. They need to figure that all out.

-Early on, the game unfolded exactly how I hoped it wouldn't. Carolina was able to run with great authority which made things easier for Darnold. That got away from them when we opened up the score a bit. It made me think of the big favor the Philly coaches did for us by having no clue. That doesn't upset me lol.

-Our OL is playing damn close to an elite level in the run game. Pass protect was a bit iffy but Carolina has some high talent guys complete with dawg in them, and they wanted it yesterday and came to play. Overall the OL has to get a B+ to A- type grade.

-With Gallup out, and Cooper hobbled, do we REALLY need to risk Lamb on punt returns?? Back to the fine line between aggressiveness and stupidity.

-Looks like my pal Elliott has brought back the feed me crap. Just what we need.

-Urban is virtually not existent. I realize he is a dirty work guy, and I had suspected that a decent portion of OOs success may be due to Urbans play. Not yesterday. Urban was routinely beat, one on one, in both the run and pass game. Disappointing, but tough to complain about the FA class on the whole.

-Sure he dropped an easy INT to seal the game, but ABrown had the best game of his career. Has he finally figured things out, or is it a good scheme fit, maybe a little of both? Either way, I'll pass on Gilmore and the cost for now.

-Mid way through the 4th quarter, we are nursing a lead, and running the ball. Why leave 10+ seconds on the play clock several times? Is that a Dak thing or a coaching thing? Makes no sense to snap the ball early in that case and it's another thing that needs to be cleaned up. Wins seem to cover up things that will inevitably bite us.

ABrown is getting coached...its like us seeing bigfoot around here but that is what you are seeing.

 

[Irvin88_4life]

-Dont want to harp too much about the coaching. Itll take up too much space. It's our biggest problem IMO, and there's a fine line between being aggressive and flat out stupid. Its almost as if someone has something to prove beyond winning games. They need to figure that all out.

-Early on, the game unfolded exactly how I hoped it wouldn't. Carolina was able to run with great authority which made things easier for Darnold. That got away from them when we opened up the score a bit. It made me think of the big favor the Philly coaches did for us by having no clue. That doesn't upset me lol.

-Our OL is playing damn close to an elite level in the run game. Pass protect was a bit iffy but Carolina has some high talent guys complete with dawg in them, and they wanted it yesterday and came to play. Overall the OL has to get a B+ to A- type grade.

-With Gallup out, and Cooper hobbled, do we REALLY need to risk Lamb on punt returns?? Back to the fine line between aggressiveness and stupidity.

-Looks like my pal Elliott has brought back the feed me crap. Just what we need.

-Urban is virtually not existent. I realize he is a dirty work guy, and I had suspected that a decent portion of OOs success may be due to Urbans play. Not yesterday. Urban was routinely beat, one on one, in both the run and pass game. Disappointing, but tough to complain about the FA class on the whole.

-Sure he dropped an easy INT to seal the game, but ABrown had the best game of his career. Has he finally figured things out, or is it a good scheme fit, maybe a little of both? Either way, I'll pass on Gilmore and the cost for now.

-Mid way through the 4th quarter, we are nursing a lead, and running the ball. Why leave 10+ seconds on the play clock several times? Is that a Dak thing or a coaching thing? Makes no sense to snap the ball early in that case and it's another thing that needs to be cleaned up. Wins seem to cover up things that will inevitably bite us.

Dak was snapping the ball with 10 seconds left on the clock because he had took the Panthers soul and knew they couldn't stop them from picking up the first down and either scoring or running out the clock.

For as much as some of you clown on McCarthy for clock management, Rhule was terrible and had no timeouts for most of the 4th quarter

 

[fivetwos]

ABrown is getting coached...its like us seeing bigfoot around here but that is what you are seeing.

Took me a second, but that's really funny in a sad but true kind of way.

 

[JD_KaPow]

Sorry that I didn't phrase it to your liking.

You tell me that going for it a 4th down in your own end on the first drive of a game two weeks ago and on the second drive yesterday are no brainers to the point of you being able to say "it's the right call?"

How long you been watching this game? It's pretty far from a no brainer.

Since your misinterpretation of my words led you to believe I was talking about stats/analytics....and you also can speak in absolutes about it.....you must already have all those figure that show its the "right call" to do that repeatedly. Why ask me to find them, why not just share them?

Okay, you've gone down to "far from a no brainer," where before you were calling it "flat out stupid." That's progress.

This guy has a quite conservative take on the analytics: even he argues you should go for it on 4th-and-1 between your 40 and midfield (which is what the Cowboys did in both games): https://mgoblog.com/diaries/fourth-down-and-worth-it
Other calculators are much more aggressive. You can see lots of them here. They all say it was the right call, both times.

 

[Dallasfann]

Is this the meet up spot for everyone who would rather us have lost so they can tell us all they told us so? Just wanted to drop in and see how you all are doing. Hope you have a great week and the Cowboys continue to break your hearts. I'll be downstairs. There is left over pizza in the fridge.

 

[Whyjerry]

-Dont want to harp too much about the coaching. Itll take up too much space. It's our biggest problem IMO, and there's a fine line between being aggressive and flat out stupid. Its almost as if someone has something to prove beyond winning games. They need to figure that all out.

-Early on, the game unfolded exactly how I hoped it wouldn't. Carolina was able to run with great authority which made things easier for Darnold. That got away from them when we opened up the score a bit. It made me think of the big favor the Philly coaches did for us by having no clue. That doesn't upset me lol.

-Our OL is playing damn close to an elite level in the run game. Pass protect was a bit iffy but Carolina has some high talent guys complete with dawg in them, and they wanted it yesterday and came to play. Overall the OL has to get a B+ to A- type grade.

-With Gallup out, and Cooper hobbled, do we REALLY need to risk Lamb on punt returns?? Back to the fine line between aggressiveness and stupidity.

-Looks like my pal Elliott has brought back the feed me crap. Just what we need.

-Urban is virtually not existent. I realize he is a dirty work guy, and I had suspected that a decent portion of OOs success may be due to Urbans play. Not yesterday. Urban was routinely beat, one on one, in both the run and pass game. Disappointing, but tough to complain about the FA class on the whole.

-Sure he dropped an easy INT to seal the game, but ABrown had the best game of his career. Has he finally figured things out, or is it a good scheme fit, maybe a little of both? Either way, I'll pass on Gilmore and the cost for now.

-Mid way through the 4th quarter, we are nursing a lead, and running the ball. Why leave 10+ seconds on the play clock several times? Is that a Dak thing or a coaching thing? Makes no sense to snap the ball early in that case and it's another thing that needs to be cleaned up. Wins seem to cover up things that will inevitably bite us.

To me Diggs and Parsons prove every week they are the most electric defenders the team has had in a long time. Gregory was a beast. The Prancer was on the bench a lot where he should be. LVE is hot garbage. They get virtually nothing from DT. I agree Urban has been a disappointment. I hated the pick but liked what ai saw from Golston. The O is beastly. Without Gallup just beastly. Smith is still a monster. Zeke and Pollard are perfect together. 3-1. We look good.

 

[khiladi]

I like the coordinators a lot.

I believe Quinn and Moore are difference makers. McCarthy is just keeping the seat warm at this point, because he is BY FAR the weakest link in a great chain.

I saw a tweet that said it best. It said The Cowboys are a Super Bowl caliber roster, but with a Wild Card caliber head coach.

I’m not sold on Quinn. When we played elite WBs, they picked us apart. San Diego didn’t punt. It’s only because we are able to generate pressure against guys like Darnold and Hurts, both teams who don’t have any run game or refused run without young QBs, that we could play so aggressively up front, including with our LBs. Diggs picks have generally come when he was playing aggressively, up at the line, on short routes with DL getting pressure. The plays were designed to get the ball out quickly.

The advantage we have for our defense right now is, we are playing a weak schedule that can build confidence for this defense.

 

[fivetwos]

Okay, you've gone down to "far from a no brainer," where before you were calling it "flat out stupid." That's progress.

This guy has a quite conservative take on the analytics: even he argues you should go for it on 4th-and-1 between your 40 and midfield (which is what the Cowboys did in both games): https://mgoblog.com/diaries/fourth-down-and-worth-it
Other calculators are much more aggressive. You can see lots of them here. They all say it was the right call, both times.

Don't twist my words. I never referred to that call as that. But, now that you've enlightened me....

The cutoff according to your chart, which is way radical even if you're the inferior team, is 4th and 1 from your own 40. It was 4th and 2, and it didn't work. Dak made a play....quite luckily.

All fine if you want to believe that doing things like that as a home favorite won't eventually bite us, then fine....not spending more time arguing with you over it.

 

[fivetwos]

I’m not sold on Quinn. When we played elite WBs, they picked us apart. San Diego didn’t punt. It’s only because we are able to generate pressure against guys like Darnold and Hurts, both teams who don’t have any run game or refused run without young QBs, that we could play so aggressively up front, including with our LBs. Diggs picks have generally come when he was playing aggressively, up at the line, on short routes with DL getting pressure. The plays were designed to get the ball out quickly.

The advantage we have for our defense right now is, we are playing a weak schedule that can build confidence for this defense.

It has been far from perfect but quite the improvement.

We always knew this was a work in progress.

I expect them to be better as we move along.

 

[JD_KaPow]

Don't twist my words. I never referred to that call as that. But, now that you've enlightened me....

The cutoff according to your chart, which is way radical even if you're the inferior team, is 4th and 1 from the opponents 40. It was 4th and 2, and it didn't work. Dak made a play....quite luckily.

All fine if you want to believe that doing things like that as a home favorite won't eventually bite us, then fine....not spending more time arguing with you over it.

It was 4th and 1. A long one, but one nonetheless. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/202110030dal.htm

And you absolutely referred to it as flat out stupid. You used those words in your OP, I asked which calls you were referring to, and you pointed to that as one of them.

And like I said, that guy is at the conservative end. The other charts all agree you should go for it on 4th and 2 as well. There's nothing "way radical" about it, this stuff has been known for many years. Only now are NFL teams starting to adjust their behaviors in this direction.

 

[khiladi]

It has been far from perfect but quite the improvement.

We always knew this was a work in progress.

I expect them to be better as we move along.

One of the things the commentators are pointing out is Quinn is running a completely different defense than in Seattle and Atlanta.

But again, I think any experience QB and OC will attack our LBs in pass coverage. They haven’t been challenged yet and part of that is we are playing young QBs that are getting pressured and their OCs refuse to run the ball. We’ve been able to attack uphill a lot.

 

[fivetwos]

It was 4th and 1. A long one, but one nonetheless. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/202110030dal.htm

And you absolutely referred to it as flat out stupid. You used those words in your OP, I asked which calls you were referring to, and you pointed to that as one of them.

And like I said, that guy is at the conservative end. The other charts all agree you should go for it on 4th and 2 as well. There's nothing "way radical" about it, this stuff has been known for many years. Only now are NFL teams starting to adjust their behaviors in this direction.

FOX had it as 4th and 2 and Olson even commented on the distance. Either way we are on the edge of the window of very radical approach.

Again with the semantics. But yes, now I will call that decision at that point in the game flat out stupid.

As far as your chart, in all fairness....I do agree with the third criteria....but really, being on your own 40 and that of the opponent are two very different things.

If Dak was sacked on that play, which came very close to happening, Carolina is in FG range already. It's basically risking a turnover just to keep the ball a little longer. Risk vs reward again. The chart is nice, but there are so many other factors that can't possibly be measured by math. Like what I just mentioned.

Bottom line.....I don't at all agree with going on 4th that early in the game from that spot on the field....you do. All fine.

Same as I don't agree with going for 2 until you need it. Caused them to go again later in the game and they missed that.

 

[JD_KaPow]

FOX had it as 4th and 2 and Olson even commented on the distance. Either way we are on the edge of the window of very radical approach.

Again with the semantics. But yes, now I will call that decision at that point in the game flat out stupid.

As far as your chart, in all fairness....I do agree with the third criteria....but really, being on your own 40 and that of the opponent are two very different things.

If Dak was sacked on that play, which came very close to happening, Carolina is in FG range already. It's basically risking a turnover just to keep the ball a little longer. Risk vs reward again. The chart is nice, but there are so many other factors that can't possibly be measured by math. Like what I just mentioned.

Bottom line.....I don't at all agree with going on 4th that early in the game from that spot on the field....you do. All fine.

Same as I don't agree with going for 2 until you need it. Caused them to go again later in the game and they missed that.

You're right, it's entirely about balancing risk and reward. And the NFL culture (and the associated media and fan culture) has been incredibly risk-averse for decades, even though it's been clear for a very long time to anyone who looks at the data that they'd win more games if they were willing to take more risk. Things are starting to change, and I expect them to change even more in the coming years.

 

[fivetwos]

You're right, it's entirely about balancing risk and reward. And the NFL culture (and the associated media and fan culture) has been incredibly risk-averse for decades, even though it's been clear for a very long time to anyone who looks at the data that they'd win more games if they were willing to take more risk. Things are starting to change, and I expect them to change even more in the coming years.

Sorry for the attitude. My fault. I need to work on that.

I think you're right in a certain regard. Let's just be on the other side of the 50 when we try that lol.

 

[JD_KaPow]

Sorry for the attitude. My fault. I need to work on that.

I think you're right in a certain regard. Let's just be on the other side of the 50 when we try that lol.

It's a really hard thing to change. Because a more aggressive approach will end up losing a game somewhere along the line that the more conservative approach would win, and the connection between the loss and the approach will be really obvious. Whereas when teams lose games because they settled for FGs and punts instead of trying for TDs, nobody connects those dots, even though you'll lose more games that way in the long run.

 

[OmerV]

To me Diggs and Parsons prove every week they are the most electric defenders the team has had in a long time. Gregory was a beast. The Prancer was on the bench a lot where he should be. LVE is hot garbage. They get virtually nothing from DT. I agree Urban has been a disappointment. I hated the pick but liked what ai saw from Golston. The O is beastly. Without Gallup just beastly. Smith is still a monster. Zeke and Pollard are perfect together. 3-1. We look good.

Gotta disagree with this. Osa Odighizuwa has been a very pleasant surprise, and a very big contributor.

 

[CowboyFrog]

Gotta disagree with this. Osa Odighizuwa has been a very pleasant surprise, and a very big contributor.

Yeah its hard to NOT see Osa man he is killing it

 

[ChronicCowboy]

Yeah I was screaming at Dak to run the play clock down halfway through the 4th. Is it difficult to see the play clock or something?

 

[john van brocklin]

-Dont want to harp too much about the coaching. Itll take up too much space. It's our biggest problem IMO, and there's a fine line between being aggressive and flat out stupid. Its almost as if someone has something to prove beyond winning games. They need to figure that all out.

-Early on, the game unfolded exactly how I hoped it wouldn't. Carolina was able to run with great authority which made things easier for Darnold. That got away from them when we opened up the score a bit. It made me think of the big favor the Philly coaches did for us by having no clue. That doesn't upset me lol.

-Our OL is playing damn close to an elite level in the run game. Pass protect was a bit iffy but Carolina has some high talent guys complete with dawg in them, and they wanted it yesterday and came to play. Overall the OL has to get a B+ to A- type grade.

-With Gallup out, and Cooper hobbled, do we REALLY need to risk Lamb on punt returns?? Back to the fine line between aggressiveness and stupidity.

-Looks like my pal Elliott has brought back the feed me crap. Just what we need.

-Urban is virtually not existent. I realize he is a dirty work guy, and I had suspected that a decent portion of OOs success may be due to Urbans play. Not yesterday. Urban was routinely beat, one on one, in both the run and pass game. Disappointing, but tough to complain about the FA class on the whole.

-Sure he dropped an easy INT to seal the game, but ABrown had the best game of his career. Has he finally figured things out, or is it a good scheme fit, maybe a little of both? Either way, I'll pass on Gilmore and the cost for now.

-Mid way through the 4th quarter, we are nursing a lead, and running the ball. Why leave 10+ seconds on the play clock several times? Is that a Dak thing or a coaching thing? Makes no sense to snap the ball early in that case and it's another thing that needs to be cleaned up. Wins seem to cover up things that will inevitably bite us.

Sloppiness is concerning

 

[OmerV]

Yeah I was screaming at Dak to run the play clock down halfway through the 4th. Is it difficult to see the play clock or something?

Dak was snapping the ball with 10 seconds left on the clock because he had took the Panthers soul and knew they couldn't stop them from picking up the first down and either scoring or running out the clock.

For as much as some of you clown on McCarthy for clock management, Rhule was terrible and had no timeouts for most of the 4th quarter

Of course, keep in mind that mistakes can happen if pushing against the time limit and it also makes it easy for the defense to know when the ball will be snapped. Midway through the 4th quarter they couldn't just run out the clock, so they had to make first downs. All too often teams lose momentum when they alter the way they play too early.