Randy White Over Walter Payton

[joseephuss]

Process over results. The draft is a game of probability.

Someone wins the lottery eventually. Doesn't mean they made a sound financial decision buying their ticket.

That is laughable. It was the right pick at the time and proven so. They didn't draft a running back high. They drafted a great football player who happened to play the running back position. That is the process. Draft the best players possible. Had they stuck to some rigid process that forbids drafting specific positions then they would have failed. The results would have been worse in that case.

 

[dallasdave]

Well, thats a fair argument. There are great exceptions!! Dorsett...Smith??

Dorsett, Smith, and ZEKE !!!

 

[Toruk_Makto]

Man... you're like a dog with a bone on that subject.

It's the topic at hand.

That is laughable. It was the right pick at the time and proven so. They didn't draft a running back high. They drafted a great football player who happened to play the running back position. That is the process. Draft the best players possible. Had they stuck to some rigid process that forbids drafting specific positions then they would have failed. The results would have been worse in that case.

You group players in tiers and draft sensibly from there. Neither Payton nor Zeke were in a tier unto themselves.

 

[Outlaw Heroes]

You never take the RB that high.

Context matters. In a run first league without free agency or salary cap constraints such as existed in the '70s and '80s, you might draft a running back that high. (And teams throughout the league commonly did.) In your rush to push your pet theory you've lost touch with the reasons that support that theory.

 

[dallasdave]

I would take the CoWinner of a SB MVP...over Payton anyday...especially on Sunday. Nothing against Walter...but Randy WAS a Cowboy!! WTH!

 

[diefree666]

they both got just one ring. But look how long Payton had to wait to get his. When Randy retired the Cowboys were going downhill. Walter lucked out retiring when he Bears were still competitive. So in the end both of their careers were fairly equal; both considered among the all time greats at their position.

 

[landroverking]

If the internet was around when White was taken over Payton, going into the 1977 season, with Payton a star and White a square peg in a round hole as a LB, people would have hung Gil Brandt in effigy. Once he was switched from LB to DT, people would have been back on the bandwagon.

White was taken as part of the Dirty Dozen in 1975.
Great Super Bowl team that came up a little short.
I always felt robbed.
Steelers without one flag the whole game.

 

[diefree666]

White was taken as part of the Dirty Dozen in 1975.
Great Super Bowl team that came up a little short.
I always felt robbed.
Steelers without one flag the whole game.

Steelers and SB officiating. They stole one (Seattle) and got all sorts of help against us in the second meeting. I do not think that any SB they were ever in they got more than a couple of flags. The 75 SB though it was really blatant; almost as bad as the one that the officials gave to them against Seattle.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

Context matters. In a run first league without free agency or salary cap constraints such as existed in the '70s and '80s, you might draft a running back that high. (And teams throughout the league commonly did.) In your rush to push your pet theory you've lost touch with the reasons that support that theory.

Did Runningbacks suddenly get injured less in the 70's and 80's?

 

[joseephuss]

It's the topic at hand.

You group players in tiers and draft sensibly from there. Neither Payton nor Zeke were in a tier unto themselves.

I don't even know what that means.

Payton was a great prospect. He was a top tier football player at the time of the draft. Any team would have benefited from having him on their roster. The Bears were a better team with him. They would have been completely irrelevant in the 70s without him. Their failures were not due to Payton, but rather not finding enough good players at other positions. That franchise has a long history of average at best QBs, for example.

The Dallas Cowboys made the right choice in 1977 drafting Tony Dorsett.

The Houston Oilers made the right choice in drafting Earl Campbell in 1978. He is the primary reason they made it deep in the playoffs in the late 70s. Without him they probably don't even make the playoffs. They, like the Bears failed to find other important pieces to win a SB.

You draft the best players. Those 3 running backs were some of the best players in their respective drafts. You don't pass on them just because they happen to play running back.

 

[tyke1doe]

I don't even know what that means.

Payton was a great prospect. He was a top tier football player at the time of the draft. Any team would have benefited from having him on their roster. The Bears were a better team with him. They would have been completely irrelevant in the 70s without him. Their failures were not due to Payton, but rather not finding enough good players at other positions. That franchise has a long history of average at best QBs, for example.

The Dallas Cowboys made the right choice in 1977 drafting Tony Dorsett.

The Houston Oilers made the right choice in drafting Earl Campbell in 1978. He is the primary reason they made it deep in the playoffs in the late 70s. Without him they probably don't even make the playoffs. They, like the Bears failed to find other important pieces to win a SB.

You draft the best players. Those 3 running backs were some of the best players in their respective drafts. You don't pass on them just because they happen to play running back.

Great post!

I think Randy White was the better choice for the Cowboys, but had the Cowboys picked Walter Payton, I think they would still have gone to the Super Bowl, and possibly beaten the Steelers.

One of the reasons the Cowboys lost to the Steelers is that Tom Landry was worried about Tony Dorsett's workload. With Dorsett, he simply would not consistently run the ball. Even the Steelers said after the game they wondered why Dorsett's carries were limited as he was slashing them when he did run the ball.
Walter was more durable. He was Emmitt before Emmitt.

Another reason the Cowboys lost is that Dallas put Randy White on the kickoff team. The Steelers kicker squib kicks the ball to White who tries to pick the ball up with a cast on his hand but proceeds to fumble, giving the ball to the Steelers. They score and take (I believe) an 11-point lead.
Had we gotten the football and scored and the rest of the game goes according to what it did that day, maybe we're the first team to win 4 Super Bowls, and we're the team of the 70s.

 

[Reverend Conehead]

The 1977 draft was a good draft (got Dorsett, Tony Hill, a good special teams LB in Guy Brown, Jim Cooper, who started at RT for 6 years, and Dave Stalls, who was a core special teamer and backup DL). Interestingly enough, the 1988 draft, the last under Tex Schramm, was a good one. They got Michael Irvin, Ken Norton, and Chad Hennings, and selected guys like Dave Widell, Scott Secules and Mark Higgs who all stuck around in the league for a good length of time.

In between? You could have drafted better using Mel Kiper's Blue Books than what Brandt did.

Yeah, the '77 draft was a good one. It was not the best one in team history, but getting Dorsett, Tony Hill, and Glenn Carano was okay. People forget that Carano was a good quarterback because he was overshadowed by Staubach and White. When the team had Staubach, White, and Carano, it was very QB rich.

 

[Plankton]

Yeah, the '77 draft was a good one. It was not the best one in team history, but getting Dorsett, Tony Hill, and Glenn Carano was okay. People forget that Carano was a good quarterback because he was overshadowed by Staubach and White. When the team had Staubach, White, and Carano, it was very QB rich.

Glenn Carano cost the Cowboys Joe Montana. As a result, I don't have the warm and fuzzies for Carano.

 

[diefree666]

One problem Gil had during the later years running the draft was that he got caught up too much on measurables. He refused to draft MIke Singletary because he was half an inch below their minimum height requirement for LBs.

 

[Reverend Conehead]

Glenn Carano cost the Cowboys Joe Montana. As a result, I don't have the warm and fuzzies for Carano.

That's true. We were well stocked at QB and so Landry didn't deem it necessary to draft Montana, even though he was who they should have drafted according to their system. That's not Carano's fault though. He did what he was supposed to do, which was to be the best QB he could be. I just wish the Cowboys would have stuck to their system and drafted Montana. They could have traded away White or Carano or both.

 

[Thomas82]

Glenn Carano cost the Cowboys Joe Montana. As a result, I don't have the warm and fuzzies for Carano.

What happened with that situation?

 

[Reverend Conehead]

What happened with that situation?

The team felt it was set at QB with Staubach, White, and Carano and therefore didn't need to draft Montana, even though he was the best player available according to their system. Tex Schramm wanted to stick to the system and draft Montana, but Landry figured they would just end up cutting Montana because they were so rich at QB. Hence, no Joe Montana in Big D and the 9ers got him. It was one of Landry's biggest regrets that he talks about in his bio

 

[Toruk_Makto]

I don't even know what that means.

Payton was a great prospect. He was a top tier football player at the time of the draft. Any team would have benefited from having him on their roster. The Bears were a better team with him. They would have been completely irrelevant in the 70s without him. Their failures were not due to Payton, but rather not finding enough good players at other positions. That franchise has a long history of average at best QBs, for example.

The Dallas Cowboys made the right choice in 1977 drafting Tony Dorsett.

The Houston Oilers made the right choice in drafting Earl Campbell in 1978. He is the primary reason they made it deep in the playoffs in the late 70s. Without him they probably don't even make the playoffs. They, like the Bears failed to find other important pieces to win a SB.

You draft the best players. Those 3 running backs were some of the best players in their respective drafts. You don't pass on them just because they happen to play running back.

You have two goals in the draft...

1) Get great players
2) Get great players who are most likely to play and be with you for some time

I'll leave it there.

 

[Thomas82]

The team felt it was set at QB with Staubach, White, and Carano and therefore didn't need to draft Montana, even though he was the best player available according to their system. Tex Schramm wanted to stick to the system and draft Montana, but Landry figured they would just end up cutting Montana because they were so rich at QB. Hence, no Joe Montana in Big D and the 9ers got him. It was one of Landry's biggest regrets that he talks about in his bio

Thanks for the response. Joe Montana went into the NFL the year I was born, so I obviously wouldn't have known about any of that.

 

[Reverend Conehead]

Thanks for the response. Joe Montana went into the NFL the year I was born, so I obviously wouldn't have known about any of that.

You might really enjoy reading Tom Landry's autobiography. It has a lot of great facts about the team over the years.