Read Option QB and the Pocket QB the Difference

[jterrell]

Let’s take one of each

1. RG 3 – Read option QB
2. Romo – Pocket QB

In college this works because it is simple and does not require knowledge of reading defenses. You look for keys on the DL and run accordly. If in trouble the first and only option is run the ball.

The Pocket Passer is always a pro set in which you read defenses and set your offensive selection to the defensive set. Also, your check downs depending on down and distance and open receiver. It takes more training and ability for the QB and always in high demand in the NFL.

QB coming into the NFL from Pro Set College teams is usually successful immediately if the talent in the offense is good.

The Read Option QB will have a long learning process to become a pocket passer and only if he has the ability to SEE the defense and talent to find the right play to run the offense. Not many of this type of QB are successful in the NFL.

These are the reason that RG 3 will be looking for a new team next year and Romo is looking for his first Super Bowl ring.

Ultimately not sure I could disagree more.

Truth is it is harder and takes longer to develop a pocket passer.
Read option guys have come in and made the playoffs quite quickly... including RG3, Keap and Wilson.
What young pocket passer is having that type of early success?

Andrew Luck is as close as it gets and he was a generational prospect that runs faster than many read option guys.

Also Romo is not a traditional pocket passer by ANY means.
His weird twists and scrambles to buy time are what sets him apart.
He is not a master of the 1 read quick launch like Payton or Brady.
He (like Drew Brees) is outside the pocket passer purview by a mile.

At the end of the day there are a lot more human beings who can handle read-option or spread roles and a lot more college guys playing that style.
Pure pocket, pro style passers are very, very rare and ones that can handle the physical and mental demands of playing in the NFL are infinitesimally small.

If you gave me one NFL QB to start my team with right now it would easily be Luck.. but after him there are about 3 or 4 read option guys in a row before you fall back onto guys like Flacco, Ryan or Dalton.

RG3 was doing just fine until he was seriously injured. While read option stuff is a health risk and fair to consider that part of the deal, it is not fair to assume he is playing anything near where he would if he were fully healthy. It is also rather silly for people to assume he is near done as the injury is one where guys tend to be better the 2nd year. We've seen Spencer finally come on late after a year as non-factor because of the same serious injury type concerns.

 

[JD_KaPow]

Problem is when you can contain Wilson in the pocket he is not near as effective. When Dallas played them we kept him in the pocket not allowing him to roll and his passes were not on target.

Sure. And when you can pressure Romo (or Manning or Brady) up the middle, they're not near as effective.

The problems with read-option QBs transitioning to the NFL include (1) many of them simply aren't accurate passers, which won't work in the NFL in any system, (2) many of them have been set up for failure, by being stuck into systems that don't play to their strengths (or by having their coach play them with an injured leg), and (3) most QBs fail to transition to the NFL: it's really hard. For every Stafford (moderately successful starting NFL pocket-passer), there are many many David Carrs.

 

[Stryker44]

If the read option doesn't help players for the pros long term, why do colleges use it, and why do QB recruits who have the goal of playing in the NFL sign with these universities?

 

[Stryker44]

Let's take another example of the Read Option and Pocket QB. RG3 and Luck, if you looked at them in College you could see that Luck was the Real Deal and would be an immediate impact coming into the NFL. RG3 was good at the Read Option but the analysis could tell you that any team taking him would be built around his talent. Washington looked good at first until teams started to defend the Read Option. When Washington tried to change the offense to Pocket Passer it was not equipped to do so and the reason Washington and RG3 had a dysfunctional year.

You are right about the QB above, but contribute their success to the team that they went to and NOT their Read Option talent.

In 2012 we were nearly unstoppable with the read option. Nobody proved they could stop it. RGIII got injured and he and his dad went to Snyder and Snyder ordered Shanahan to change and make him a pocket QB.

 

[rwalters31]

Once Romo is done I want another QB just like him. If I'm being greedy, maybe with a little more arm strength. But he's got the ideal mix of being a true pocket passer, with great pocket presence, but with plenty of mobility and improv skills to make plays out of the design of the offense.

I want a QB who can run. Not a running QB.

I'm with you bro!!

 

[Doomsday101]

Sure. And when you can pressure Romo (or Manning or Brady) up the middle, they're not near as effective.

The problems with read-option QBs transitioning to the NFL include (1) many of them simply aren't accurate passers, which won't work in the NFL in any system, (2) many of them have been set up for failure, by being stuck into systems that don't play to their strengths (or by having their coach play them with an injured leg), and (3) most QBs fail to transition to the NFL: it's really hard. For every Stafford (moderately successful starting NFL pocket-passer), there are many many David Carrs.

Sure pressure right up the gut will give all QB problems, the one big thing for Romo is he is not a runner, he uses his agility to buy time to fine the man down field, while many of these younger QB coming from read options are pretty much running QB

 

[joseephuss]

I believe that you are incorrect on running QBs. Look though this thread and QB data and you will fine running QBs are less likely to successed.

Those are specific QBs that have failed. They didn't have accuracy, the ability to make quick, good reads and make good decisions. Them lacking in those areas prevented them from succeeding. It wasn't because they could run. It is the same reason there are pocket passers that fail. Those guys can't run and also can't do the things I listed.

I'll add a fourth important component, composure. Guys that thrive under pressure. Not everyone has that ability.

 

[xwalker]

Let’s take one of each

1. RG 3 – Read option QB
2. Romo – Pocket QB

In college this works because it is simple and does not require knowledge of reading defenses. You look for keys on the DL and run accordly. If in trouble the first and only option is run the ball.

The Pocket Passer is always a pro set in which you read defenses and set your offensive selection to the defensive set. Also, your check downs depending on down and distance and open receiver. It takes more training and ability for the QB and always in high demand in the NFL.

QB coming into the NFL from Pro Set College teams is usually successful immediately if the talent in the offense is good.

The Read Option QB will have a long learning process to become a pocket passer and only if he has the ability to SEE the defense and talent to find the right play to run the offense. Not many of this type of QB are successful in the NFL.

These are the reason that RG 3 will be looking for a new team next year and Romo is looking for his first Super Bowl ring.

I think RG3 is suffering from what so many mobile QB's suffer from....bad coaching.

He played in a Read-Option scheme where the footwork isn't really required.

Then for some reason, people think that these QB's will be able to fit right into a West Coast Offense (they did the same thing with Vick). The WCO requires extremely precise footwork because the footwork is tied in with the timing of the pass patterns. It's more than doing a 5-step drop. It's about the length of each stride. For example, there was a video of Bill Walsh showing plays and Montana's footwork. Walsh would say something like okay, this is a 7-step drop. But on this play, Joe will take 3 large steps, a 1 small step and then 1 medium step1. As soon as his back foot plants he is too look to the right for his primary target.

And they would show Montana doing exactly that. But, if he takes a small step in one stride instead of a medium step, it throws the timing of the play off. And not only do you have to perfect the footwork, but you have to remember what the footwork is for that given play as other 5-step drop backs can have a different combination of strides. And then you also have to learn the playbook which most WCO have some of the most confusing language you'll encounter.

For some reason, WCO coaches seem to think that because a guy is mobile, he'll be able to pick up their scheme. I understand the positives of the WCO in that it requires a little less reading of the defense (our scheme is more option route based where the receiver and QB has to know where to go with the ball based on what the defense is doing mid-play). But, I think coming from a system where none of that footwork is required or taught, it makes a long road to hoe.

And for the most part, the read-option is dead in the NFL. Some teams use it a little and of course there's Russell Wilson who is this incredible escape artist. But, I think defenses in the NFL have figured it out.

YR

If the coaching, scheme and player match up, then I think the read-option QB can succeed in the NFL. They can't carry the ball an excessive number of times obviously without getting injured, but if used properly it can work.

I would not want to see RG-knee in Chip Kelly's offense. The Eagles had decent success with Sanchez and Nick Foles. If they ever get a QB that is a better match for that offense, it could work.

The Skins have the wrong Coach and offense to give RG-knee much of a chance to succeed, IMO.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

If the coaching, scheme and player match up, then I think the read-option QB can succeed in the NFL. They can't carry the ball an excessive number of times obviously without getting injured, but if used properly it can work.

I would not want to see RG-knee in Chip Kelly's offense. The Eagles had decent success with Sanchez and Nick Foles. If they ever get a QB that is a better match for that offense, it could work.

The Skins have the wrong Coach and offense to give RG-knee much of a chance to succeed, IMO.

The problem with the read-option is that you can basically blitz it and play zone. It relies on the play action in order to work, so you're going to get a lot of shots at the QB. Kelly's twist is the hurry up so the defense can't quite disguise the blitz and coverages. But the counter to that is the offense has to run a very simplistic scheme since they are running a lot of package plays. You also have the O-Line in run blocking technique and if you're passing the ball and the defense guesses right and the QB guess wrong, you're going to get hurt.

RG3 was still in the read-option in his 2nd year with the Skins. The difference was defenses finally figured out how to play it. It can work here and there, but unless you're running a hurry up or you have an escape genius like Russell Wilson, it's not a difficult scheme to stop. That's why Kaepernick has struggled...defenses figured out the read option, he can't throw it consistently well from the pocket and he doesn't have Russell Wilson's ability to make improbable plays on the run.




YR

 

[xwalker]

The problem with the read-option is that you can basically blitz it and play zone. It relies on the play action in order to work, so you're going to get a lot of shots at the QB. Kelly's twist is the hurry up so the defense can't quite disguise the blitz and coverages. But the counter to that is the offense has to run a very simplistic scheme since they are running a lot of package plays. You also have the O-Line in run blocking technique and if you're passing the ball and the defense guesses right and the QB guess wrong, you're going to get hurt.

RG3 was still in the read-option in his 2nd year with the Skins. The difference was defenses finally figured out how to play it. It can work here and there, but unless you're running a hurry up or you have an escape genius like Russell Wilson, it's not a difficult scheme to stop. That's why Kaepernick has struggled...defenses figured out the read option, he can't throw it consistently well from the pocket and he doesn't have Russell Wilson's ability to make improbable plays on the run.

YR

Maybe, but to me both the Niners and Skins had pocket passer offensive coordinators running the read-option because that the type of QB they had.

If a true read-option offensive coordinator get a true read-option QB, then it could be more successful. I'm not going to bet money on it, but I can see it happening.

 

[jterrell]

The problem with the read-option is that you can basically blitz it and play zone. It relies on the play action in order to work, so you're going to get a lot of shots at the QB. Kelly's twist is the hurry up so the defense can't quite disguise the blitz and coverages. But the counter to that is the offense has to run a very simplistic scheme since they are running a lot of package plays. You also have the O-Line in run blocking technique and if you're passing the ball and the defense guesses right and the QB guess wrong, you're going to get hurt.

RG3 was still in the read-option in his 2nd year with the Skins. The difference was defenses finally figured out how to play it. It can work here and there, but unless you're running a hurry up or you have an escape genius like Russell Wilson, it's not a difficult scheme to stop. That's why Kaepernick has struggled...defenses figured out the read option, he can't throw it consistently well from the pocket and he doesn't have Russell Wilson's ability to make improbable plays on the run.




YR

Ultimately it isn't about read-option. The OP used that example to limit the discussion unnecessarily to RG3 versus Romo.
No NFL offense is just read-option. And having that in the offense is certainly not a limiting factor.
The read-option is just a set you can use with a mobile QB.
It puts tremendous pressure on a defense because you have to defend QB run, RB run and pass.

If the backers play run it opens up TE and other underneath patterns.
If the safeties cheat to help then it opens up deep throws.
Those deep throws where what made RG3 special as a rookie.
Then he messed up his knee but Wash played him anyways and he couldn't make those throws any longer.
And now it is easy to defend because he can;t accurately pass the ball down the field on the bad wheels.

Maybe he regains that strength and stability and confidence... maybe not.

An NFL DC will tell you the thing they hate most in life is playing mobile QBs.
They've asked and stated this repeatedly.
It causes you to break all the rules and go away from standard schemes.

Mobile QBs are here to stay.

 

[Doomsday101]

Ultimately it isn't about read-option. The OP used that example to limit the discussion unnecessarily to RG3 versus Romo.
No NFL offense is just read-option. And having that in the offense is certainly not a limiting factor.
The read-option is just a set you can use with a mobile QB.
It puts tremendous pressure on a defense because you have to defend QB run, RB run and pass.

If the backers play run it opens up TE and other underneath patterns.
If the safeties cheat to help then it opens up deep throws.
Those deep throws where what made RG3 special as a rookie.
Then he messed up his knee but Wash played him anyways and he couldn't make those throws any longer.
And now it is easy to defend because he can;t accurately pass the ball down the field on the bad wheels.

Maybe he regains that strength and stability and confidence... maybe not.

An NFL DC will tell you the thing they hate most in life is playing mobile QBs.
They've asked and stated this repeatedly.
It causes you to break all the rules and go away from standard schemes.

Mobile QBs are here to stay.

True they are here to stay but just as when RGIII came out and Luck came out I gladly take the QB who can work within a pocket over a running QB

 

[jrumann59]

Once Romo is done I want another QB just like him. If I'm being greedy, maybe with a little more arm strength. But he's got the ideal mix of being a true pocket passer, with great pocket presence, but with plenty of mobility and improv skills to make plays out of the design of the offense.

I want a QB who can run. Not a running QB.

I think the new term is Pocket Mobile QB.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

Ultimately it isn't about read-option. The OP used that example to limit the discussion unnecessarily to RG3 versus Romo.
No NFL offense is just read-option. And having that in the offense is certainly not a limiting factor.
The read-option is just a set you can use with a mobile QB.
It puts tremendous pressure on a defense because you have to defend QB run, RB run and pass.

If the backers play run it opens up TE and other underneath patterns.
If the safeties cheat to help then it opens up deep throws.
Those deep throws where what made RG3 special as a rookie.
Then he messed up his knee but Wash played him anyways and he couldn't make those throws any longer.
And now it is easy to defend because he can;t accurately pass the ball down the field on the bad wheels.

Maybe he regains that strength and stability and confidence... maybe not.

An NFL DC will tell you the thing they hate most in life is playing mobile QBs.
They've asked and stated this repeatedly.
It causes you to break all the rules and go away from standard schemes.

Mobile QBs are here to stay.

Mobile QB's may be here to stay, but in general...outside of Russell Wilson...QB's that can consistently beat you from the pocket are the ones that win Super Bowls.

RG3 didn't hit many deep throws as a rookie either. He would use the play-fake and the linebackers would bite and he would have a wide open receiver underneath. He has excellent ballhandling skills so he could hand it off, fake the hand-off and keep it himself or fake the hand-off and throw it.

But, he can't see over his own linemen. That's why the play action in his rookie year was critical. It sucked the backers in so far that it made for a very easy throw.

In the last game under Rob Ryan, it was pretty clear that they instructed the linebackers (who we basically got off the street) to not bite on the run fakes and RG3 threw the ball terribly. But, since we didn't know how to defend the read-option combined with the lack of talent on defense due to injury, Washington had a field day running the ball.

The problem with mobile QB's that can't beat you from the pocket consistently is that sooner or later defenses become more disciplined in keeping those QB's in the pocket. And you might get a QB that can run at 4.4 forty once every 5 years, but he's running the ball against corners and safeties and some linebackers that are just as fast and they are not running with a ball in their hands trying to find a receiver.

Watching RG3 now, he's healthy. But, he doesn't have the footwork to find passing lanes and to make accurate throws. He doesn't know where to go with the ball and he's still a 2-read QB at best. I think the worst thing the Skins did for him was to start him in his rookie year. They would still have issues trying to figure out an offense suited for his abilities, but it would have allowed him to get his footwork better and to adjust to the NFL game. Now he's all scatterbrained because he needs to work on so many things at once and that doesn't help with confidence. And by throwing the WCO at him, it just made matters worse.

And I couldn't be happier.





YR