RECAP: Goose on with Norm

Chocolate Lab

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(Notice I didn't say "Goose on Norm. :) Anyway...)

Says getting Roy Williams from the Lions would cost us BOTH first rounders.

Only 21 first round grades, and Felix Jones is the #21 ranked player and would be good value at #22. (As said yesterday.)

Mayo, Williams, and Otah (I think?) are the 1st rounders that could fall to #22. ('Course, those aren't need positions at all.)

Jamal Charles, Kevin Smith, and Chris Johnson are 2nd rounders, though one could go late 1st. Charles would be the logical pick to go higher.

(Norm specifically asked about Jamal Charles as a high 2nd rounder... Implying we could trade back.)

Now thinks the QB run on Henne, Flacco, Brohm could come earlier than he first thought -- now maybe late teens or early 20s. All teams from about 20 down have been talked to regarding trading down.

There was more I didn't get... Hopefully Trickblue or IR were listening.
 

theebs

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a side note here.

If anyone gets a chance to listen to the podcast of yesterday mornings fake norm with goose done by the musers you will love it.

I was in tears laughing. they do such a great job breaking gosselins chops.

I will see if I can find a link.
 

burmafrd

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He is full of crap about Roy needing both firsts. Detroit would never get that; and if they want to trade they will go lower. Maybe they don;t= but no way does anyone give 2 firsts for anyone except a LT or Brady or the like.
 

Chocolate Lab

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theebs;2049987 said:
a side note here.

If anyone gets a chance to listen to the podcast of yesterday mornings fake norm with goose done by the musers you will love it.

I was in tears laughing. they do such a great job breaking gosselins chops.

I will see if I can find a link.

I heard one they did a few months ago... Truly hilarious.
 

InmanRoshi

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N: I was toiling away making calls all night last night, and you were flaunting yourself around the town last night
G: I went to Jersey Boys last night. I figured I deserved a one night off. I was up this morning and 5 am. Short night.

N: Latest news?
G: I thought there would be no trading at top, but now I can see some. St. Louis, Atlanta and KC are all entertaining offers. It depends on who goes with the 2nd pick. If it’s Dorsey to STL the draft goes one way and if its Chris Long it goes another.

N: If STL takes Dorsey, does ATL take Ryan?
G: Atlanta wants Dorsey. If he goes #2 its either Ryan or move down.

N: Is it the Saints that are trying to move up?
G: I heard Saints, New England and Jets could move up.

N: Who does NE want?
G: The best pass rusher in the draft would still be on the board. I would assume Ghouston, but NE always does a lot of fishing around this time of year.

N: Are there players rising dramatically at the last minute?
G: Not at this point. I don’t look at other mocks and boards, just what I hear. The risers started doing it two weeks ago. Boards are pretty established now.

N: Are you convinced Boldin, RW and CJ won’t be traded?
G: Well, the Bengals will take such a huge cap hit they can’t move him. That’s why they didn’t take the Commanders offer. If Jerry wants RW it will take both #1’s.

N: Will the Bengals wait till June 1st to trade him spread his cap hit?
G: There is a war about what makes up a contract. Right now the Bengals are daring him … if you claim you’re going to sit out all year, go ahead and do it. If it wasn’t for the cap hit, they would have traded him by now, but they are stuck with each other.

N: The assumption for the Cowboys was always RB or CB or WR. How much of a delimma if one of the really good tackles slides down to #22 like Albert or Chris Williams?
G: don’t see any way that happens. I think the yare all gone at #20 at the latest.

N: The top 2 defnesive backs on the board are DRC and McKelvin. Then Jenkins slightly below them. Do you see Jenkins falling to #22?
G: I see all three of them gone by #17 at the latest. I only have 21 players with 1st round values. The Cowboys sit at #22. I don’t see any guys sliding. Mayo might, but he doesn’t fit Dallas’ needs.

N: But if Jenkins falls to #22, does that put a Cowboys in a position where they have to take him or take BPA?
G: If Jenkins slides he will be the best player available. The Cowboys drafted two tackles last year, why not see if they can play? I don’t know why they would take another OT.

N: Out of the projected WR’s, CB’s and RB’s believed to be sitting there at #22, Is the best player available Felix Jones?
G: I think so. He’s the final player on my list of 21 first round graded players. He’s the 21st player on my board.

N: Will Jamaal Charles be there in the 2nd round?
G: A possibility. There is a chance one of those RB’s could slide into the 1st . Charles would be the logical one. But between Charles, Kevin Smith and Chris Johnson they’re early 2nd round guys.

N: Are you getting reports the Cowboys will be approached about a trade up situation?
G: Everyone from #21 down is getting calls about trade ups for QBs. Brohm, Henne and Flacco are all graded differently on different boards, but that’s where the interest comes. The board is kind of flat from 20-27 .. it picks up #28. That’s where I thought the trades would happen, but now I think it will happen earlier in the 20s. I think there are a lot of inquiries made today about what it would take to move up. Lots of teams are on the phone fishing around today to see what it would cost to get to #20 vs #23 vs #25 vs #27 .. etc.

N: Say you’re the Steelers at #23 you would have to give them a lot trade all the way back to the mid 30’s. That’s a big step down. But #28 isn’t a big step down and wouldn’t cost teams that much.
G: Agreed.

N: How significant are character flags in this draft? There are so many of them in this draft !!
G: There are a lot of them in this draft. There are more players off of boards for character flags than usual.

N: One team I talked to last night told me they have 50 players with character flags.
G: don’t know what team you talked to, but I talked to one team that took every player with a character flag completely off the board. This is what it’s coming to. Teams are just getting tired of having these guys in their lockerroom.
 

PosterChild

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I'd rather trade down and get Charles, and p/u another pick than get Jones at 21. Better value and I think JC is the equal of Jones, if not the better back.
 

miamicowboy21

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If we can have a brady quinn replay from last year I'm all for it. Atlanta or Miami will be calling for one of those QB's. We just need to sit back and let the draft come to us. If we trade out of #22 we need to grab Cason at 28. Also maybe we can bluff the giants into thinking were taking phillps and get something out of them. They need safety help bad.
 

theogt

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Norm just said his prediction is: Felix Jones at 22 and trade 28 down into the early 2nd and take a corner -- Cason, Flowers, or Porter.
 

Chocolate Lab

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Norm is predicting Felix Jones at 22 (if Jenkins doesn't fall), trade down with #28, and take a corner with the high second rounder you get from the trade. Then get WR later.
 

theogt

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Chocolate Lab;2050054 said:
Norm is predicting Felix Jones at 22 (if Jenkins doesn't fall), trade down with #28, and take a corner with the high second rounder you get from the trade. Then get WR later.
YOU LOSE!

:D
 

InmanRoshi

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Some of more of Norm's notes...

Assumption that the Cowboys are only looking at RB, CB or WR … there still exists a belief that you should take the best player available, and if at #22 the #15 player is available why would you settle for the 24th best player? I only say that because the draft is loaded with extremely good OT’s. What do the Cowboys do if the 15th player on the board is sitting there at #22?

The logical plan we’ve seen this previous weeks of just taking Felix at #22 may not be the way it unfolds. If they take Michael Jenkins at #22, will Felix be there at #28? That’s a stretch. But could they trade down and take Jamaal Charles in the 30’s? That’s a good chance.

I do believe the Cowboys will deal the #28 pick to one of the QB hungry teams. Baltimore, KC and Atlanta are hungry for QBs .. one of them will take Ryan, but the others need to trade up into the 20’s to get one of the QBs. If Dallas drops down 7-8 spaces and gets an extra 3rd that’s a good deal. That’s what I think you’ll see tomorrow. The club really hopes Mike Jenkins slides. If one of the tackles is there there will be a delimma. If they’re all gone, Felix is a legitimate choice at #22. If they trade into the early 2nd from #28, look for CB. I don’t believe in the WR’s in this draft. I think a lot of them will slide. I believe a good WR be there with their late 2nd pick. The Cowboys like cornerbacks Cason, Flowers and Porter in the early 2nd. So I think the most realistic thing we will see tomorrow is Felix Jones #22, at trade down at #28, and a CB in the early 2nd. A WR and all the others will come later.


Callers…

(caller) If you have an extra #1, you’re playing with house money. Why not take a QB there? Are they going to go with Brad Johnson again?

He’s never going to play. Do you think Indy is going to take a QB #1 to backup Manning? I could see the Cowboys taking a developmental QB at some point, but not that high. A couple of later round guys I like are Alex Brink from Wash. State and the QBs from San Diego.

(caller) I would bundle up the #1s and get Row Williams. You can fill other holes at RB and CB with the 2nd and 3rd round picks.

I think Roy Williams is a terrific player. But I can’t trust Pac Man Jones any further than I can throw him. I think they’ll have to get a CB at some point. There are good RB’s in the mid rounds. Remember the name Tashard Choice. He’s a good RB. Maybe if the Lions kick in a 3rd in return, that wouldn’t be the worst plan out there.

(caller) Is Oakland still looking at McFadden or do they like Michael Bush?
They have a strange collection of guys there with Bush, Fargas and Jordan. The signals are that Al Davis wants a Wow player … but say the draft goes #1 Long, #2 Chris Long, #3 Dorsey … then #4 Matt Ryan is sitting there and Oakland can deal that pick knowing that Ghoulston, Rivers, McFadden, Clady are all still on the board and one of them will be there a few picks later. So they could flip there. Right now it points to Oakland taking McFadden, but that spot could be hot if Ryan is still sitting there.

(caller) I’m a huge Texas Fan .. but Jamall Charles does not excite me because of his fumble problems. I would rather have Ray Rice and Michael Smith.

I think the Cowboys regard Charles higher than those guys because of his home run ability. The Cowboys don’t think those guys are big play guys. And they already have a workhorse in Barber. I like Kevin Smith and am an unabashed fan. Ray Rice is incredibly productive. I really like those guys, but they’re considred more 3rd round /late 2nd guys. I also like Forte and would include him in that group. But they like Charles ahead of those guys because of the big play ability.
 

theogt

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Chocolate Lab;2050057 said:
As usual. :(

BTW, did you get that, theo? He just said look out for Tashard Choice in round 3.

Easy boy.
It'd be hilarious if we drafted Felix and Choice and Barber went down and Choice became the starter and Felix the backup. :)
 

RainMan

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Depending on who's available at 22 (has the run on corners already occurred?), I might be willing to part with both 1sts to get Roy Williams.

I wonder if they'd take next year's first along with 28, or some combination of 28, this year's third and next year's second?

Or maybe my scenario is going completely overboard in an attempt to get him.
 

superpunk

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InmanRoshi;2050104 said:
(caller) If you have an extra #1, you’re playing with house money. Why not take a QB there? Are they going to go with Brad Johnson again?

facepalm.jpeg



Our fans....
 

InmanRoshi

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I think they purposely let the dumbest caller through call screening as a wacky bit.

Of course he prefaces his question with "Norm, Ive been following the draft for a lot of years....." to qualify his draft expertise before he asks the question that makes everyone facepalm.
 

dbair1967

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I really cant see us giving both 1's this yr for Roy Williams...maybe if they can do the deal you give them a 1&3 this yr and a 2 next yr...

you still gotta sign him to a long term deal...obviously if they trade for him they think they can, but until its actually done it a variable you have to consider

David
 

SMCowboy

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I think that their is a very good chance that Mike Jenkins falls to #22. I don't see New England and New Orleans going CB.

New England has never spent big on a CB, they are always going with guys that noone knew anything about at CB. I think New England will go OLB, which is desperately need as well, there OLB corps is very very old. And Bill Belichek LOVES his LB's.

I also expect New Orleans to trade up with either New York Jets (if Long, Ghoston, or McFadden are not avaible), New England, or Baltimore to get ahead of Cincinatti to get Sedrick Ellis, which will fill by FAR the biggest need for NO's. I could definately see a scenario where no CB's are taken till Arizona picks at #16....
 
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