RECAP: Mickey's Ranch Report on Dunham and Miller

[dbair1967]

I really don't know what Mickey's point was about "you're going to have to get another RB if you get Felix Jones." We're going to have to get another RB no matter who we draft. We only have one on the roster. We need two more.

As far as a "niche back" goes ... who isn't a "niche back" in today's NFL? Forget wondering if Felix Jones can be an every down back, we don't even know if Marion Barber can be an every down back. Brandon Jacobs is 6'4" 260 lbs and he splits carries. We're looking for a big play dynamic (I swore I'm not going to use "Wow" for the rest of the offseason ... but you get the idea). If you get a guy who can dynamically change the offense and keep opposing defense coordinators up at night, not to mention a threat to take it to the house every time he takes a kickoff, he's worth every bit of the #22 pick.

good post IR...couldnt agree more

and everyone that thinks he is one dimensional, everyone who's been around him says he has great hands as a receiver...go watch some of the tape from the combine of him snagging passes with his hands...and he's an explosive KR

we've most likely be getting our money's worth easily out of him

David

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Who says he can't be the top RB if he proves to be better?

Every scouting report out there to be read says Felix is a complement back in the mold of Reggie Bush, not an every down player. That's the book on him. The reports say he's not as big as his listed size.

You can't just ignore that when you are thinking about paying him first round $$ and then having to pay MB3 top $$ to keep him.

What I'm saying is either move up for a guy that can be a feature back so you insure yourself if MB2 gets too expensive, (DMac, Mendenhall, maybe Stewart, if necessary) or take a 2nd round running back and save yourself some $$ for MB3.

 

[InmanRoshi]

And where were Jacobs and Barber drafted? The 1st round or the 4th round?

Might as well let Barber walk then. We can find someone like him in the 2nd day.

 

[dbair1967]

And where were Jacobs and Barber drafted? The 1st round or the 4th round?

who cares where they were drafted? if a guys a good player, fits what you want to do and is good value where you are, you pick them

would they pick Jones in the 1st rd if they had him rated as a 4th rd pick? No, they wouldnt...if they pick him at 22 or 28 they obviously are doing so because they have him rated that high

course you still think if we dont take him at 22, he'll be a middle 2nd rd pick...we'll see I guess, but I could seee several teams behind us potentially grab him

David

 

[Chocolate Lab]

Well, Felix was an official 207 at the combine, where heights and weight are legit, and 210 at his pro day...

And here's his RB coach's comments on him.

ARKANSAS RB COACH TIM HORTON

"I think he can be an everydown back. He has all the attributes you're looking for. He's a good pass protector. He's deceivingly strong and deceivingly bigger than you think when you look at him. He's got a really big set of legs on him. ... You very, very rarely get a clean shot on him. Felix doesn't get near as many direct hits as Darren [McFadden] does. I don't think there's any doubt that he can and will handle [being a feature back]. ... If we were very smart, we would have given [the ball] to him more. He averaged over nine yards per carry. We didn't get it to him enough. He is such an explosive player. ... He's not a punt returner. He struggles to catch a punt. He'll catch about 85 percent of them, but you've got to have a guy better than 85 percent back there. ... He's got the feel - whatever 'it' is, he's got it. Anytime you get him the ball in space, something good is going to happen. ... He's maybe not as fast as Darren McFadden, but heck, who is? He's got really, really good speed. ... Good, not great [hands]. He generally caught the ball well in games, but every once in awhile, he'd drop a ball in practice that would make you think, 'What the heck?' ... The thing about Felix is all the intangibles he brings to the table. He is really a first-class kid. He's got that personality or charisma about him. The thing that everybody at Arkansas will remember about Felix is his smile. He's fun to be around. ... He's one of the ultimate team guys I've ever been around, but at the same time, he's very competitive. If things weren't going well and he was on the sideline, he'd say, 'Get me in there.'"

I really need to settle down about Felix... I was one of the ones with bigtime doubts about him (as a more fulltime back, I mean -- I always liked him) earlier, and now I'm probably being influenced by comments like this. :

 

[dbair1967]

Every scouting report out there to be read says Felix is a complement back in the mold of Reggie Bush, not an every down player. That's the book on him. The reports say he's not as big as his listed size.

You can't just ignore that when you are thinking about paying him first round $$ and then having to pay MB3 top $$ to keep him.

What I'm saying is either move up for a guy that can be a feature back so you insure yourself if MB2 gets too expensive, (DMac, Mendenhall, maybe Stewart, if necessary) or take a 2nd round running back and save yourself some $$ for MB3.

and despite that, he's a concensus 1st rd rated back...if everyone is so sure he's never going to be a #1 guy, why is he rated as a 1st rounder?

and honestly it doesnt matter if he ever is "the guy"...we dont have that stype system here (nor do alot of teams)...its a 2-back league...if the guy is rated high, fits what you want to do and is there, you take him

David

 

[theogt]

Might as well let Barber walk then. We can find someone like him in the 2nd day.

For $10 million a year, I'd almost be willing to let him walk.

But you completely missed the point. Coming out of college, those guys weren't considered "every down backs" and they were drafted low because of it.

 

[CrazyCowboy]

great recap--thanks

 

[theogt]

who cares where they were drafted? if a guys a good player, fits what you want to do and is good value where you are, you pick them

would they pick Jones in the 1st rd if they had him rated as a 4th rd pick? No, they wouldnt...if they pick him at 22 or 28 they obviously are doing so because they have him rated that high

Again, the fact that someone else thinks he's worth a 22nd pick doesn't change my opinion.

course you still think if we dont take him at 22, he'll be a middle 2nd rd pick...we'll see I guess, but I could seee several teams behind us potentially grab him

David

I never said that at all.

 

[InmanRoshi]

Norm said he has some good info. He was speculating the first round might not bring a wr, rb or cb! He also said he expects a trade of some sort with miami tomorrow! For picks, not taylor.

My buddy is trying to convince me that the Cowboys best value at #22 would be to take Jeff Otah, and convert him to guard to replace Koser. The theory is that he's the best pure run blocker in the draft, and you add him with Flo, Gurode, Leonard and Colombo and the Cowboys OL would be like the mid 90s. The average height and weight of our starting OL would be like 6'5 345.

 

[Stash]

Might as well let Barber walk then. We can find someone like him in the 2nd day.

That didn't answer the question.

 

[odog422]

Mickey: I look at him as a niche back. If you draft him, you better find yourself another guy, because do you know if Felix Jones can fill in for an injured Barber and carry 25 times a game? That’s the only thing .. I don’t know if you can spend a first round pick on a niche back. When Deuce McAllister went down Reggie Bush couldn’t carry the load as an every down back. He’s a guy you got to move around, put in the slot, run reverses … etc. He had a great ypc in college, but a lot of that came from reverses and stuff. So you’ll need to find another normal RB if you get Felix Jones.

EXACTLY why I do not want this guy. Ray Rice please.

 

[Stash]

and despite that, he's a concensus 1st rd rated back...if everyone is so sure he's never going to be a #1 guy, why is he rated as a 1st rounder?

and honestly it doesnt matter if he ever is "the guy"...we dont have that stype system here (nor do alot of teams)...its a 2-back league...if the guy is rated high, fits what you want to do and is there, you take him

David

And where do all the 'consensus' mock drafts have him going?

To Dallas - and only to Dallas.

If he's a 'consensus #1', why is it that the only team who thinks that is the Cowboys?

Seem contradictory to me.

 

[Hostile]

Every scouting report out there to be read says Felix is a complement back in the mold of Reggie Bush, not an every down player. That's the book on him. The reports say he's not as big as his listed size.

You can't just ignore that when you are thinking about paying him first round $$ and then having to pay MB3 top $$ to keep him.

What I'm saying is either move up for a guy that can be a feature back so you insure yourself if MB2 gets too expensive, (DMac, Mendenhall, maybe Stewart, if necessary) or take a 2nd round running back and save yourself some $$ for MB3.

No book out there had Tony Romo as a starting QB in the NFL.

No book out there would have had Ahmad Bradshaw starting for the Giants.

No book out there would have said Jay Ratliff would be a better player than Marcus Spears.

You cannot predict when a player will simply get it.

 

[theogt]

No book out there had Tony Romo as a starting QB in the NFL.

No book out there would have had Ahmad Bradshaw starting for the Giants.

No book out there would have said Jay Ratliff would be a better player than Marcus Spears.

You cannot predict when a player will simply get it.

You can't. But is it smart to draft players that don't necessarily "get it" yet in the 1st round? I don't think anyone would have a problem drafting Felix in the 2nd round.

For all the Romos there's a hundred others that are used car salesmen now. For every Ratliff there's five Montavious Stanley.

 

[InmanRoshi]

For $10 million a year, I'd almost be willing to let him walk.

But you completely missed the point. Coming out of college, those guys weren't considered "every down backs" and they were drafted low because of it.

They also weren't considered catalytic big play backs. Reggie Bush was a consensus Top 5 pick. Joseph Addai didn't really carry the ball anymore than Felix did in college. They were first round picks because they brought homerun ability.

 

[Stash]

No book out there had Tony Romo as a starting QB in the NFL.

No book out there would have had Ahmad Bradshaw starting for the Giants.

No book out there would have said Jay Ratliff would be a better player than Marcus Spears.

You cannot predict when a player will simply get it.

I think there's a difference between 'getting it' and being 'capable' of doing the job.

The guys you're mentioning were late round flyers and undrafted free agents, not 1st round picks.

They weren't guys a team invested millions of dollars in the hopes that they could be starters. They were low-risk gambles which paid off handsomely.

I don't want to have to 'hope' that Felix Jones becomes something he wasn't, hasn't been or isn't by using a 1st round draft choice.

Teams use tandems at running back, but they don't pay huge money to onee guy and then draft a backup in the 1st round.

That doesn't happen.

 

[LucaBrasi]

I don't know why someone who averaged 9.8 ypc, at a division 1 school in a big time conference, can go the distance any time he touches the ball, and returns kickoffs to boot is a bad pick in the first round. Not to mention this is the 22nd pick not a top 5 selection.

 

[theebs]

My buddy is trying to convince me that the Cowboys best value at #22 would be to take Jeff Otah, and convert him to guard to replace Koser. The theory is that he's the best pure run blocker in the draft, and you add him with Flo, Gurode, Leonard and Colombo and the Cowboys OL would be like the mid 90s. The average height and weight of our starting OL would be like 6'5 345.

that would be interesting. I still wonder if marten is not headed for that left guard spot next season.

 

[SMCowboy]

I think there's a difference between 'getting it' and being 'capable' of doing the job.

The guys you're mentioning were late round flyers and undrafted free agents, not 1st round picks.

They weren't guys a team invested millions of dollars in the hopes that they could be starters. They were low-risk gambles which paid off handsomely.

I don't want to have to 'hope' that Felix Jones becomes something he wasn't, hasn't been or isn't by using a 1st round draft choice.

Teams use tandems at running back, but they don't pay huge money to onee guy and then draft a backup in the 1st round.

That doesn't happen.

This conception that Felix Jones is not a first round worthy RB, really is stupid. Even Goose on his concensus top 100 board has Felix Jnes listed as the 21st best avaible player.

The only reason that team have Felix Jones going to Dallas at #22 is because the only other teams that are considered to be looking at RB before Dallas are Carolina and Detroit and one of them is getting Mendenhall. But, if Dallas doesn't take Felix Jones at #22, Seattle is a good bet a #25, San Diego at #27 is a good bet as well, there is talk that Tennesse could be looking at him possibily at #24 as well.