CFZ Recent Focus on Defensive Tackle position

[Mac_MaloneV1]

I don't know what criteria you are using to support your statement.

The value of a DT cannot be determined by statistics. Their job is to do the nasty work which allows others on the team to collect the stats.

Still, someone who may want to give it a try should consider including his team's opponent's average yards per carry or how many times an opponent can convert short yardage on 3rd and 4th downs. DT's make significant contributions in those areas.

5th rounders do the nasty work just fine. You either rush the passer, or you're not worth being taken in the first round. It's pretty simple.

You can go through the run defense EPA of all those teams, and there's absolutely no correlation. Green Bay, NYG, LAC were all terrible last year. NYJ and CAR were average. There is just absolutely nothing to suggest that plugging DTs are a) correlated to stopping the run or b) have any value worthy of being taken in the first round.

The 2017 draft is a perfect example of how you can get those guys without investing heavily.

 

[VaqueroTD]

Man, you just don't pay attention. That list is littered w/ difference makers at DT. Take Dexter Lawrence, for example. Rising star who led the Giants in sacks last year. 7.5 from the Nose, and at 342 lbs. Christian Wilkins is an elite run defender. Payne had 11.5 sacks last year and is considered elite. Rankins was a complete stud. Star was very good.

Manalive, you must get your info from BSPN. They are misleading you, dude.

For sure, most underrated position on defense in the NFL. Which is weird, but just the way it is.

 

[Havic]

This is the dumbest thing to come out of last year.

Is the eagle hate that strong to where basic facts are ignored or maligned?

 

[CowboyRoy]

Since last summer, the Cowboys have used 3 draft picks to add 3 defensive tackles to the team.

1. The Cowboys traded a 2023 6th round pick for former NY Giants 2nd round pick DT Johnathan Hankins, plus a 2024 7th round pick.
2. The Cowboys drafted DT Mazi Smith in the 1st round of the 2023 draft
3. The Cowboys drafted DL Viliami Fehoko in the 4th round of the 2023 draft

Last year, the Cowboys spent a 5th round pick on DT John Ridgeway.

Go back a couple of seasons, and the Cowboys spent 3 more draft picks on defensive tackles in 2021.

1. The Cowboys drafted DT Osa Odighizuwa in the 3rd round of the 2021 draft
2. The Cowboys drafted DL Chauncey Golston in the 3rd round of the 2021 draft
3. The Cowboys drafted DT Quinton Bohana in the 6th round of the 2021 draft.

In 2020, the Cowboys also spent a 3rd round pick on DT Neville Gallimore.

Since Mike McCarthy took over as Head Coach, the Cowboys have spent 8 draft picks acquiring defensive tackles. Not a single Defensive tackle remains on the team from before McCarthy came to Dallas. Seven of those draft picks have been spent on DT since Dan Quinn became the Defensive Coordinator.

It seems as if the Cowboys are finally taking the Defensive Tackle position seriously...at long last.

Here are the draft resources spent on the Defensive Tackle position since McCarthy took over:

1st round - Mazi Smith
3rd round - Neville Gallimore, Osa Odighizuwa, Chauncey Golston
4th round - Viliami Fehoko
5th round - John Ridgeway
6th round - Quinton Bohana, Johnathan Hankins

If it wasnt for the first round pick THIS year, that would be a very weak attempt to improve the position.

 

[eromeopolk]

Jimmy Johnson commitment to DT - Jimmie Jones, Leon Lett, Tony Casillas, Russell Maryland, and Chad Hennings.

That is 2 1st round picks overall, a trade for a 1st round pick, 1 no.1 overall pick, a 3rd round pick, and a Gil Brand/Tex Shramm future pick. When Jimmy saw Chad Hennings work out after his military commitment, he said "well keep him", and he would have been a 1st-2nd round pick.

Tom Landry commitment to DT - Bob Lilly, Jethro Pugh, John Dutton, Randy White, Chad Hennings, Danny Noonan, Larry Bethea, and Kevin Brooks.

That is the first Dallas Cowboy ever drafted, trade for a 1st round pick (see Jimmy Johnson do the same), 5 1st round draft picks overall, and 2 11th round picks that became starters.

Bottom line is you win in the trenches drafting defensive and offensive linemen. Tom Landry and Jimmy Johnson was committed to the DT position.

 

[Dallasfann]

I didn't say that.

I said that one pick doesn't make a trend or pattern, especially not one worthy of saying that there's some overall organizational shift.

You're right Jerry has owned the Cowboys 33 years and for the first time in 32 years he drafted his 2nd DT ever in the first round. I'm guessing he did so because he is a big fan of drafting DT's in the 1st round and not because the coaching staff or anyone told him to. Gotta give props to the 80 year old man. He's getting smarter.

 

[glimmerman]

I get that undersized players can sometimes play, but why would you want an undersized player in the NFL?


Honestly, we had it coming inviting his opinion on players Most coaches aren't scouts. Look at the offensive line coach who didn't want Tyler Smith.

I mean, in hindsight, that's stupid.



Great point, Biggie. I'll take it a step further. Where you draft is overrated. What matters is your evaluation.

Yeah it wasn’t Linehan it was the other guy marinelli. He wanted smaller players because they were faster.

 

[Mac_MaloneV1]

Is the eagle hate that strong to where basic facts are ignored or maligned?

It is not a fact that the field was advantageous to KC lol

 

[Mac_MaloneV1]

You're right Jerry has owned the Cowboys 33 years and for the first time in 32 years he drafted his 2nd DT ever in the first round. I'm guessing he did so because he is a big fan of drafting DT's in the 1st round and not because the coaching staff or anyone told him to. Gotta give props to the 80 year old man. He's getting smarter.

Drafting DTs in the first round is mostly stupid, so they haven't done it.

 

[Havic]

It is not a fact that the field was advantageous to KC lol

I never said that. I said poor field conditions nullified the eagles pass rush. They got it done all year. Chiefs players were slipping to.

 

[Mac_MaloneV1]

I never said that. I said poor field conditions nullified the eagles pass rush. They got it done all year. Chiefs players were slipping to.

So in other word you don't have any facts, and if it's not advantageous then it doesn't matter anyway

Like I said, it's dumb.

 

[kskboys]

Drafting DTs in the first round is mostly stupid, so they haven't done it.

The teams who tend to be super bowl contenders completely disagree w/ you. KC just did it. SF does it all the time. They presently have two 1st round DT's on their team. Eagles have 3 first round DT's on their team.

So, show me all these top teams that don't take DT's in the 1st. Every one I've looked at does it a lot.

PITT and BALT were perennial contenders until recently, and they do it all the time.

Man, can you show me even one team that tends to be a super bowl contender that doesn't take DT's in the 1st?

 

[kskboys]

To be clear, I believe the Cowboys did not prioritize the DT position. Clearly over the years they had opportunities to draft DTs and didn't. In some cases mistakes were made in my opinion. Taking Jaylon Smith in round 2 in 2016 was a huge mistake. In that draft they had a chance at DeForest Buckner, Kenny Clark, A'Shawn Robinson, or Chris Jones and went with Zeke and Jaylon Smith. But in most years they did not have a good DT option. They did not have a shot at Derrick Brown who was the 7th pick. The Cowboys drafted 17th that year and took CeeDee Lamb.

They took Tyron Smith over Heyward, which I do not think was the right choice that year. LT is more valuable than DT.

I simply disagree. They do not prioritize the position, and so don't even try.

I'd say the opposite is true. In most years good DT options were there and we ignored them.

 

[Dallasfann]

Drafting DTs in the first round is mostly stupid, so they haven't done it.

There have been 90 Qbs taken in the first round since Jerry bought the team and 98 DTs in the first round since he bought the team. That means more DTs have been taken in the first round of the NFL draft since 1990 then the most important position in sports.

I should of been a damn lawyer. Good fight...probably my best argument win on this forum in a few weeks.

 

[Mac_MaloneV1]

There have been 90 Qbs taken in the first round since Jerry bought the team and 98 DTs in the first round since he bought the team. That means more DTs have been taken in the first round of the NFL draft since 1990 then the most important position in sports.

I should of been a damn lawyer. Good fight...probably my best argument win on this forum in a few weeks.

Nobody who says "should of" is qualified to be a lawyer, and this is a dumb point.

Generally speaking, there are double the number of DTs on the field at any given time, and double on rosters so those numbers mean the opposite of what you're saying.

There have been 98 WRs, 95 DEs and 130-something DBs taken since just 2000. So yea, DTs aren't particularly important, the players who impact the passing game the most are.

 

[DuncanIso]

Rod really did us dirty.

He basically called the same D every play. lol

 

[kskboys]

Nobody who says "should of" is qualified to be a lawyer, and this is a dumb point.

Generally speaking, there are double the number of DTs on the field at any given time, and double on rosters so those numbers mean the opposite of what you're saying.

There have been 98 WRs, 95 DEs and 130-something DBs taken since just 2000. So yea, DTs aren't particularly important, the players who impact the passing game the most are.

And that would be DTs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Whether it is clogging up the middle, collapsing the pocket, or pressuring the QB, DT's are absolutely the most instrumental in impacting the passing game. The DT position affects every position on D as no other D position does.

 

[Dallasfann]

Nobody who says "should of" is qualified to be a lawyer, and this is a dumb point.

Generally speaking, there are double the number of DTs on the field at any given time, and double on rosters so those numbers mean the opposite of what you're saying.

There have been 98 WRs, 95 DEs and 130-something DBs taken since just 2000. So yea, DTs aren't particularly important, the players who impact the passing game the most are.

Take the L. It's over. You just proved again to yourself that the DT is a very important position. How many Dbs are on the field at once?

 

[Mac_MaloneV1]

Take the L. It's over. You just proved again to yourself that the DT is a very important position. How many Dbs are on the field at once?

Cool now you're making things up. Never said that DT wasn't important.

The number of DBs illustrates how pointless the comparison of DTs to QBs is. It is a bunk argument, that has no merit.

 

[Dallasfann]

Cool now you're making things up. Never said that DT wasn't important.

The number of DBs illustrates how pointless the comparison of DTs to QBs is. It is a bunk argument, that has no merit.

Nobody who says "should of" is qualified to be a lawyer, and this is a dumb point.

Generally speaking, there are double the number of DTs on the field at any given time, and double on rosters so those numbers mean the opposite of what you're saying.

There have been 98 WRs, 95 DEs and 130-something DBs taken since just 2000. So yea, DTs aren't particularly important, the players who impact the passing game the most are.

What are we even doing here.