Regarding Duke Preston...

silverbear

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I wasn't sure how I felt about this signing when I learned about it earlier today... on the one hand, I like his size, I like that he's started 20 games in the NFL, and I like that he plays both guard and center (and has started at both positions)...

But then, as others have noted, those starts were for the Buffalo Bills, who are not exactly an offensive juggernaut, and the Packers cut him well before the first cuts were due... so I was a bit dubious...

So I did what I always do when I'm unsure about how to feel about a particular move, I went and researched the Bills' offense last year... what I learned was quite intriguing, and a bit encouraging...

First off, the Bills' rushing attack was a good deal better then their passing attack was... it was still mediocre, but the passing attack didn't rise to that level... they were 14th in yards per game rushing, and 14th in yards per carry average, a respectable 4.2...

Looking a little closer at the big picture, I learned that Duke's 11 starts were the last 11 games of the season... so I decided to compare their offense over the first 5 games versus the offense over their last 11... here's what I found:

SACKS ALLOWED:

16 in the first 5 games, 3.2 per game... 22 in the last 11, 2.0 per game... the pass protection got better after Preston was made a starter...

RUSHING:

The Bills gained 492 yards on 133 carries in their first 5 games, 98.4 yards per game and 3.7 yards per carry... in the last 11 games, they gained 1350 yards on 306 carries, 122.7 yards per game and 4.4 yards per carry...

Overall, it sure looks to me like the problem with the Bills' offense wasn't so much the offensive line, but the quarterback situation (Losman and Edwards), and turnovers (they were -8 on the season)... it also seems pretty clear that the offensive line performed better once Preston was inserted into the starting lineup...

And now, I feel more optimistic about this signing... I think the Boys might have found a semi-decent young veteran to provide some quality depth...
 

Hoofbite

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I really don't care how bad he is. If he gets rid of Proctor, he'll improve that position a ton.
 

silverbear

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DaBoys4Life;2905823 said:
good read nice post thanks for the breakdown.


You're welcome, hoss... like I said, I was ambivalent about the move, didn't know whether to be pleased or skeptical, and I didn't know much about Preston, so I figured I'd see what the stats told me...

You guys know I'm a big believer in the stats, I think you can learn a lot from them...
 

BlueStar II

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Silverbear, certainly appreciate the research you did on both the Bills and Preston. Thanks again.
 

arglebargle

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Good to see those details. Given the line situation I was just happy they were doing something. Now it looks like he might be a decent backup pickup. I guess the Packers have two good centers already?
 

silverbear

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BlueStar II;2905838 said:
Silverbear, certainly appreciate the research you did on both the Bills and Preston. Thanks again.

I had to do the research, who the heck ever pays attention to what the Bills are doing?? :D

I felt better about this move once I did it...
 

Zaxor

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That screen pass in the tenn game after procter decided not to snap the ball may have been his doom...ole procter ran out to where the back was and started to block the back....unreal.
 

silverbear

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Hostile;2905850 said:
Good stuff my ursine friend.

It's not the first time being bored at work has made me look brilliant... :D

I actually tried to make the job harder than it needed to be, I started to go through the game stats in his starts, game by game, all 11 of 'em... then the light bulb went off, and I figured out it would go quicker to go through the first 5 games that he didn't start, and subtract those numbers from the Bills' season totals...

I'm not as think as you dumb I am... well, except that I didn't figure it out right off the bat...
 

silverbear

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dallasfaniac;2905856 said:
According to stats inc. Preston allowed .75 sacks in 11 starts.

Not too shabby, eh?? Thanks for adding to the statistical picture, that's helpful...

Edit-- .75 sacks?? How on earth does a guy give up .75 sacks?? A half sack, I could understand...

Maybe he gave up a half sack on one play, and his guy was one of 4 to bury the QB on another... :D
 

silverbear

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Haley94;2905862 said:
Good read. i read this article about him that states he was struggling with the zone blocking scheme that Green Bay employs. I think we are more of a man blocking scheme, similar to Buffalo. Please correct me if I'm wrong. might be the reason GB let him go.

http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20090811/PKR01/90811134/1058

Another solid contribution, thanks a lot... this confirms my earlier guess, that he just wasn't a good fit for what the Pack is trying to do...

Gimme smashmouth over finesse, all day, every day...
 

silverbear

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Coakleys Dad;2905863 said:
great analysis silver...thanks.
I gotta think he'll ba an upgrade..

A number of posters have helped me in this thread... I thank all of them, and I think we're starting to get a good idea of his potential...
 

Idgit

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Haley94;2905862 said:
Good read. i read this article about him that states he was struggling with the zone blocking scheme that Green Bay employs. I think we are more of a man blocking scheme, similar to Buffalo. Please correct me if I'm wrong. might be the reason GB let him go.

http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20090811/PKR01/90811134/1058

Also, good to note in that article that Buffalo at least matched GB's offer.
 

AdamJT13

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I posted this a few days ago, but here it is again -- a review of Preston's 2008 season by a Bills fan. Keep in mind, this was written three weeks before Preston signed with Green Bay, when Bills fans were debating whether the team should re-sign him.

http://www.buffalorumblings.com/2009/3/9/786294/offensive-line-review-duke

Offensive Line Review: Duke Preston

Mar 9, 2009 12:30 PM EDT

If you've been around for a while you've likely discovered that I've got a weird fascination with the battle in the trenches. Specifically, I like to spend what free time I have watching how individual linemen do. I got into this mainly because I didn't want to just say so-and-so ****s or is terrific. I wanted data in the deep, nerdy way that Tom Clancy wants to know the ins and outs of various pieces of military hardware. ...

There has been some discussion about Duke Preston over the past couple of weeks. The release of Derrick Dockery and subsequent realization the team has only two viable interior linemen (Brad Butler, Geoff Hangartner) helped these discussions along. Specifically, people have been questioning whether he should be re-signed as depth now that Buffalo has picked up Hangartner to start at center. Short answer? "No." Long answer? "**** no!"

Ron's Grading Method

If you haven't trudged through any of my interminably long offensive line posts, I watch how each lineman does on every play. I then rate each lineman as having had a good, decent or bad play. I also note if the lineman's screw-up killed a play or a drive. (Every drive that didn't result in a TD was killed.) For the stats below, it may be useful to know that I score each good play as 95, decent play as 75 and bad play as 55. A good play is one in which a lineman does something remarkable, such as pancaking a defender or preventing a defender from elevating into the throwing lane. A decent play is one in which a lineman does his job - his defender doesn't disrupt the play, but the lineman doesn't really stand out either. Most plays fall in the decent category. A bad play is one in which the lineman (really messed up) in some way. He might have allowed a defender to smack the QB or failed to block a guy who then either tackled or harried the RB. Killed plays are those in which the lineman's mistake caused the play to fail. To continue the above examples, the defender might sack the QB or tackle the RB in the backfield. Drive killing errors are those which literally cause the drive to stall, either with a kick (punt, FG) or turnover.

Preston while passing

Preston was on the field for 372 pass plays in 2008. Of those, he graded out as good on 2 (0.5%), decent on 344 (92.5%), bad on 26 (7%), and killed 9 (2.4%). That grades out to a poor 69.4%. Some have suggested that Preston showed progress towards the end of the year, which indicated he might grow into a decent center. This wasn't the case in the passing game. In the first 8 games (Preston had significant playing time in three - one of which was the Chargers game which wasn't broadcast in its entirety) he had no good plays, 86 decent ones, 7 bad ones and 4 killed plays for a grade of 73.1%. In games 9-12, Preston had 1 good play, 128 decent ones, 4 bad ones and 3 killed plays for a grade of 74.3%. In games 13-16 he had 1 good play, 130 decent ones, 7 bad ones and 2 killed plays for a grade of 73.6%.

That isn't growth, but rather consistency. Then I started to think about when people with the Bills were talking about Preston's improvement. I recall, perhaps wrongly, that it was during the last couple of weeks of the season. Looking at the last quarter of the season in greater depth, Preston had a terrible stretch (passes 8-13 and 15 were bad) in the passing game against the Patriots. Dropping out that week and looking at the Dolphins-Jets-Broncos stretch, Preston had 1 good play, 104 decent ones, 4 bad ones and 2 killed plays for a grade of 74.5%. That would put Preston's trajectory in the pass game as 73.1% to 74.3% to 74.5%, something that would indeed show some promise. The egg he laid in the second Patriots game, however, was smelly enough to make that upward trajectory wilt and dip back down: 73.1% to 74.3% (back down) to 73.6%. So, yes, Preston was improving in his pass blocking and then Vince Wilfork came to town.

Preston while running

The run game wasn't any prettier for Preston. He was on the field for 269 televised run plays. He was rated as good on 24 (8.9%), decent on 148 (55.0%), bad on an astounding 97 (36.1%) and killed 19 (7.1%) for a dismal grade of 69.6%. Ugh. That's actually worse than I thought it would be. Think about that for a moment. Preston was beaten on more than one third of all running plays. He personally killed about one out of every 14 run plays.

Again, let's take a look at how it breaks down by quarter. The first 8 games (Preston saw significant action in 3 of the first 8 games) saw Preston have 5 good run plays, 39 decent ones, 7 bad ones and 7 killed plays for a grade of 70.3%. Weeks 9-12, Preston had 8 good plays, 58 decent ones, 10 bad ones and 8 killed plays for a grade of 68.7%. The last quarter Preston had 11 good run plays, 51 decent ones, 35 bad ones and 4 killed plays for a grade of 70.1%.

So, yes, Preston had a slight rebound (70.3% to 68.7% to 70.1%) in the last quarter. Once again, we're not talking growth so much as a mild swelling. It's interesting, to me anyway, to drop the Patriots game from the mix. Doing so, Preston had 7 good plays, 37 decent ones, 22 bad ones and 3 killed plays for a grade of 70.5%. It's not exactly a great leap to get from 68.7% to 70.5%, but it's almost a half percent better than when the Patriots game is included. Throw in Preston's idiotic decision to get into an altercation at the end of the first half - instead of, you know, snapping the ball to kill the clock or for a field goal - and he quite simply played himself out of a job against the Patriots.

Preston against the 4-3 vs Preston against the 3-4

There is one more aspect to Preston's run game issues to beat into the ground. Some have said that he's a good center when faced with a 4-3 defense and only struggles with 3-4 nose tackles. There's a grain of truth to this theory. Against 4-3 defenses (Preston played only 3) he had 3 good plays, 42 decent ones, 11 bad ones and 1 killed play for a grade of 72.1%. Against 3-4 defenses he had 21 good plays, 106 decent ones, 86 (!) bad ones and 18 killed plays for a grade of 68.9%.

Preston was better at run blocking against 4-3 defenses than 3-4 (72.1% to 68.9%), but that's not nearly good enough against either to play in the NFL. Besides, the AFC East is home to three 3-4 defenses, so there isn't any getting away from them. There's also no point whatsoever in bringing Preston back as depth. After all, if a guy has proven that he's incapable of starting, what's the point of having him on the roster? It would be one thing if Preston was an unknown quantity like Demetrius Bell or some other rookie. Preston has demonstrated that his ceiling is the roof of the basement. To move out of the division basement, the Bills need to pass on players who dwell there in perpetuity.


Poll

Should the Bills re-sign Duke Preston for depth purposes?

Yes. Preston's affordable and knows the system. Plus he's 'versatile'.
44% 326 votes

No. Playing (poorly) at several positions and/or cheaply doesn't justify squandering a roster spot on Preston.
55% 409 votes


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Here's a snippet about how Preston fared in camp with Green Bay before getting cut --

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/53517982.html

"It wasn't a good day for the two players who are hopeful of sticking as a backup center and guard. The veteran, Duke Preston, suffered the embarrassment of getting put completely on his back by NT Dean Muhtadi, a long-shot free agent from Maryland. That happened in the one-on-one pass blocking drill. Preston hasn't looked like a player who started 20 games for Buffalo in the last four seasons. His problem appears to be strength."​



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And some comments from Bills fans about Preston signing with Dallas --

http://boards.buffalobills.com/showthread.php?t=161172

"he will be cut in a week or so"

"If he was worth his weight in salt, GB wouldn't have released him after only 5 months."

"And this scrub was our starter last season."

"If he's on their roster come Week 1, I'll be shocked."

"i bet he becomes a final roster cut."

"lol how desperate are they? he will be cut in less than 2 weeks!"

"Dallas likes our scraps I guess...LOL they still have Wade somehow"​
 

silverbear

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AdamJT13;2905882 said:
I posted this a few days ago, but here it is again -- a review of Preston's 2008 season by a Bills fan. Keep in mind, this was written three weeks before Preston signed with Green Bay, when Bills fans were debating whether the team should re-sign him.

Adam, I was hoping you'd chip in on this thread... I read the article you reposted here when you first posted it, but "Ron From NM's" take surely doesn't square with what I see when I look at the stats sheet...

As a result, I find myself wondering how much expertise Ron has, and how much personal bias goes into his grading of film... are you familiar with his work at all, could you give us some take on if he has anything resembling your credibility, or if he's just another blogger with an opinion??

I'm not being defensive here, I just don't know the guy, and like I said, his take doesn't seem to square with the numbers I've seen... of course, there may well have been other factors involved in the improved play of the OL after Preston became the starter, I'm surely not up on things Bills-related...

And of course, I know better than to argue with you... so if you have any input to offer, I'd be quite interested... my mind's still open on this one...

As for the fan comments at the end, let's just say that I have never found your average everyday Bills fan to be particularly knowledgeable about the game... :D
 
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