Reggie Bush ineligible For Heisman?

[dougonthebench]

Young was not the best player last year, and he damn sure wasnt best by a long shot lol

you must be an OU fan!!!

 

[Billy Bullocks]

I think it is only fair Vince was the best player last year by a long shot. Huff took Bush out of the game while Vince tore USC a new one.

If Heisman voting would have been after the Bowl Season, Young wins hands down. But taking all things into account prior to the Rose Bowl, which the voters did, and it's hard to argue that Reggie Bush wasnt the best player on, at that time, the best team in college football. Remember, Texas was the underdog going into the game, and Vince Young really vaulted himself with that game. From a guy who people had doubts about playing QB in the NFL to probably a top 5 pick, I'd say that Rose Bowl had alot to do with it.

 

[DBoys]

If Heisman voting would have been after the Bowl Season, Young wins hands down. But taking all things into account prior to the Rose Bowl, which the voters did, and it's hard to argue that Reggie Bush wasnt the best player on, at that time, the best team in college football. Remember, Texas was the underdog going into the game, and Vince Young really vaulted himself with that game. From a guy who people had doubts about playing QB in the NFL to probably a top 5 pick, I'd say that Rose Bowl had alot to do with it.

Can't argue with that

 

[CowboyChris]

If Bush is found of wrong doing, i would hope the Heisman Clubs strips him of the trophy and gives to Vince Young, who in my opinion was the best collegiate player last year, its not even close.

 

[Billy Bullocks]

If Bush is found of wrong doing, i would hope the Heisman Clubs strips him of the trophy and gives to Vince Young, who in my opinion was the best collegiate player last year, its not even close.

Again, the consencus around the country regarding this wasnt reached until after the Rose Bowl. And that's a fact. Only UT fans had probably been saying it all along. Bush was the best player in college prior to the Rose Bowl. And again, what does living in a house for free have to do with the Heisman. As far as I know, the Heisman club is completely differnet and seperate from the NCAA, which is a tad ridiculous in and of itself.

 

[ComicBookGuy]

Reggie Bush has a mediocre game against a top 5 defense, ergo he is overrated.

Vince Young has a horrible game against a 107th ranked defense, he is still the best player in college football.

Makes sense.

Bottom line, Heisman is a body of work trophy. Bush's body of work is sickening. Young's body of work is sickening as well. So what then is the deciding factor? Flash. Flash garners attention. Attention = Heisman.

You can make arguments for both. One of them won it, the other didn't. There is no need to ***** and cry like a little girl because of it.

Ultimately though, Bush set himself up for failure with his performances against Fresno and UCLA. There was no way he was going to match those two performances against Texas and so there was going to be some let down as a result.

 

[SuspectCorner]

Reggie Bush has a mediocre game against a top 5 defense, ergo he is overrated.

Vince Young has a horrible game against a 107th ranked defense, he is still the best player in college football.

Makes sense.

Bottom line, Heisman is a body of work trophy. Bush's body of work is sickening. Young's body of work is sickening as well. So what then is the deciding factor? Flash. Flash garners attention. Attention = Heisman.

You can make arguments for both. One of them won it, the other didn't. There is no need to ***** and cry like a little girl because of it.

Ultimately though, Bush set himself up for failure with his performances against Fresno and UCLA. There was no way he was going to match those two performances against Texas and so there was going to be some let down as a result.

you shoulda seen all the folks that rolled their eyes after Vince Young put up 500 combined rushing and passing yards against Oklahoma State. "pshaw... it's only pitiful Oklahoma State..." they decried. (the gist being that there was no way he would do this against a top-tier team.)

"the h*** you say" - some of us later gloated.

biggest stage in college football - and college football's best player had his biggest game. 'nuff said.

and have ya heard the one 'bout Vince Young as a wide receiver?

but that's why i come here. insight is to be had and opinions run the absolute full flippin' spectrum.

 

[BigWillie]

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_y...ug=cr-bush042606&prov=yhoo&type=lgns&expire=1

By Charles Robinson, Yahoo! Sports
April 26, 2006

Charles Robinson
Yahoo! Sports Exclusive
Transcripts of parole violation hearings for New Era Sports & Entertainment associate Lloyd Lake not only detail alleged links between the marketing agency and USC running back Reggie Bush but also indicate contact with Trojan offensive tackle Winston Justice during the 2005 college football season.

In the transcripts – acquired by Yahoo! Sports from the U.S. District Court in San Diego – Lake's attorney, Marc Carlos, contends that his client's sports agency was "in negotiations with recruiting Reggie Bush" and that the agency at some point considered "potential litigation – or a settlement involving Mr. Bush's involvement with that agency."

San Diego-based agent David Caravantes, testifying as a character witness, claimed that he and Lake began working together in October to start a sports marketing firm that would be tied to the Sycuan Indian Tribe. That firm eventually took on the name New Era Sports & Entertainment. One of the tie-ins to the tribe was Michael Michaels, another one of the New Era founders who also works as a business officer for the Sycuans.

The Sycuan Tribe, acknowledging it was approached by Michaels and Lake, told the Associated Press Tuesday that it had no role with New Era Sports.

"There was a request to become partners in this New Era Sports," Adam Day, Sycuan's assistant tribal manager, told AP. "Both the tribal council and the development corporation board of directors refused to join into the business venture."

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In the unsworn court testimony, taken on Jan. 30 and Feb. 6, in front of M. James Lorenz, Carlos produced a brochure put together by New Era Sports. The attorney then outlined Lake's role with New Era, and the marketing firm's involvement with Bush as a prospective client.

Carlos alluded to a fallout between Bush and New Era, noting that there had even been potential litigation discussed by the agency for breach of an agreement on the part of Bush and his family.

"He has been trying to get together a sports agency group," Carlos alleged of the attempt by Lake and others to form New Era Sports. " Apparently, they were in negotiations with recruiting Reggie Bush. And that matter is in litigation right now due to, I guess, representations made by Bush and his family to Mr. Lake's group."

Carlos later revisited the alleged fracturing of the relationship between the Bush family and New Era, noting that a meeting was supposed to have taken place among members of the firm to discuss some form of litigation.

"Apparently, what happened is that Mr. Bush – or through his associates – had made some type of agreement with Mr. Lake's group, the sports agency group that they had. There was a meeting to have happened. It was supposed to be on a Saturday where they were going to discuss potential litigation – or a settlement involving Mr. Bush's involvement with that agency."

Carlos, reached Tuesday, declined to elaborate on the testimony.

Details about Justice, a junior tackle who has made himself eligible for this weekend's NFL Draft, also surfaced during Lake's testimony. On Nov. 26, 2005 – one week before USC was to play UCLA in the regular season finale – Lake testified that both Justice and Bush were supposed to spend the night out with him. In his testimony, Lake explained his girlfriend had gotten upset with him for planning to go out with Bush, Justice and some of Bush's friends.

"Well, I had a sports agency we had formed, and we had a guy in, Winston Justice, from USC," Lake testified. "And [my girlfriend] had planned to go out with us that night, but Reggie Bush came into town. And at that time, he was going to go out with us, so I told her all his friends were coming and that it wasn't a good night for us to go out, and that kind of got her upset."

Lake said the group took a limousine to a club, and then eventually dropped Justice off at "Hotel Shalimar". There is no listing for a Hotel Shalimar in San Diego, however, there is an upscale $300 per-night resort in the city's Gaslamp district called "Hotel Solamar." It is unclear from the testimony whether Bush was part of the group that night.

USC spokesman Tim Tessalone said the school was unaware of any of the details of the testimony.

"That's the first that we've heard of it and I probably need to verify it with Winston," Tessalone said of Justice's name appearing in the testimony.

Tessalone also told Yahoo! Sports that USC football coach Pete Carroll and athletic director Mike Garrett would be reserving comment until an ongoing investigation is concluded. An NCAA source confirmed Tuesday that the association has joined the Pacific 10 Conference in investigating the relationship between New Era Sports and Bush.

Caravantes also gave details of the New Era Sports venture in his testimony.

"Lloyd and I had got together in October to start a new sports management firm with the Sycuan, the Indian resort," Caravantes said. "And since then, Lloyd and myself, and some members of Sycuan and others, have put together a company called New Era Sports and Entertainment. And since October, Lloyd was a viable part of the company, helping recruit players, and in the process of merging this New Era Sports with Sycuan. In the process of this happening, you know, it obviously hurt the company because he had relationships with certain players who ended up not signing."

Bush signed with agent Joel Segal and marketing representative Michael Ornstein. His family lived in a house owned by Michaels for most of the last year until moving out last week.

Bush attorney David Cornwell and USC offensive tackle Winston Justice didn't return calls seeking comment.

Charles Robinson is the national NFL writer for Yahoo! Sports. Send him a question or comment for potential use in a future column or webcast.

If you're a USC fan, I've only got one word for you -- OUCH!

 

[silverbear]

Again, the consencus around the country regarding this wasnt reached until after the Rose Bowl. And that's a fact. Only UT fans had probably been saying it all along. Bush was the best player in college prior to the Rose Bowl. And again, what does living in a house for free have to do with the Heisman.

"In order that there will be no misunderstanding regarding the eligibility of a candidate, the recipient of the award MUST be a bona fide student of an accredited college or university including the United States Academies. The recipients must be in compliance with the bylaws defining an NCAA student athlete."

That quote is taken from the Heisman.com website, at the following URL:

http://www.heisman.com/history/balloting.html

This is all a grey area right now, because no Heisman winner has ever had his award stripped from him, but if his family accepted improper benefits, that would leave Reggie ineligible by NCAA standards, and therefore ineligible to win the Heisman...

Really, that's pretty black and white... and please, don't anybody try to tell me that Reggie was not aware of where his family was living, and how those accomodations were arranged... they were living in a house worth over three quarters of a million dollars, one that was apparently built FOR them (since they wrote their names in the hardening cement of their driveway)...

And of course, as soon as they were made aware that the media was investigating the particulars of their home, they promptly moved out... that alone suggests a consciousness of guilt on their part...

 

[Pokes28]

And if you saw the interview on ESPN's draft show a couple days ago, it was really freaking funny. They start off with the question about the house. Bush kept saying "At the end of the day, everything will come out that we did nothing wrong." When asked point blank if his family paid rent to live in the house he replied "I'd rather not go into particulars at this time."

Uh, ok. It was simple. Either they paid rent or they didn't. Paying rent = good - not paying rent = lots of problems.

Any time a person refuses to answer a straight up question, you have to think the worst.

David Harrell - Pokes
dwh

 

[DeaconBlues]

Two points:

While I agree it is a rules violation based on the NCAA handbook, under which having your trainer buying you a bottle of Gatorade is a violation, someone tell me, even if Bush knew his parents were in the house, exactly what was he supposed to do about it? The moment they accepted the gift, his eligibility was in doubt. If he turns them in, he's gone. So, what is the solution here?

Second, stop whining about the Heisman. The vote was in December, the game was in January. Anyone hyping Young over Bush prior to January would have been (justifiably) snickered at. So, all you are really saying is Young had a better game than Bush. For that, he won the National Championship and MVP.

 

[BigWillie]

Well Kevon, for one, if Reggie was in the dark about his parents and the house, his parents should be completely ashamed of themself. If they took it into their own hands to jeopardize Reggie and his college eligibility, they are complete a-holes. Anything could've happened to Reggie before or during the season, and he might have needed that final year of eligibility. Then to have this come out and get him kicked out of college? Really nice.

But I highly doubt the parents snuck around moving out of their house leaving their son completely in the dark.

 

[DeaconBlues]

But I highly doubt the parents snuck around moving out of their house leaving their son completely in the dark.

My parents did that while I was in college . . . my sister was nice enough to tell me before I showed up at Christmas break.

But my question is, what if his parents are sleezy and greedy and use promises of his future for the house. What realistically could Bush do?

 

[txlonghorn14]

in the words of vince young......"WHO'S THE HEISMAN NOW???"

 

[BigWillie]

My parents did that while I was in college . . . my sister was nice enough to tell me before I showed up at Christmas break.

But my question is, what if his parents are sleezy and greedy and use promises of his future for the house. What realistically could Bush do?

But the thing is, if you believe New Era, Bush was in contact just as much as his parents were.

Take a look at the latest article I posted. If all of which they are saying is true, Bush was just as guilty as anyone.

 

[burmafrd]

If the rent was payable by them then they could simply produce the receipts. But they have not. they have shown no proof that they paid ANYTHING.
And even if they did, the whole thing STINKS to high heaven. After all the stuff that has come out over the last few years, for someone to claim that they did not know is a joke. Eligibility is not that hard to figure out; what I see here is an arrogance - they figured they could get away with it. In a sense they have- Reggie will get his huge payday and they will all have lots of money. USC will get lots of egg on the face and probably a slap on the wrist as long as NOTHING else comes out of the inevitable investigation. Not to mention the media will really did like crazy. For ANYONE to think this will go away quickly- you have to be really stupid.

 

[BigWillie]

Another story that will give USC a black eye.

Potential starting QB Mark Sanchez is rumored to have been arrested for sexual assault tonight.

A player for USC HAS been arrested, but Sanchez is the rumor among all the USC fans right now for sexual assault.

With the other potential starter John David Booty just having back surgery, the Bush-Justice sage, and now this? WOW!

 

[silverbear]

Two points:

While I agree it is a rules violation based on the NCAA handbook, under which having your trainer buying you a bottle of Gatorade is a violation, someone tell me, even if Bush knew his parents were in the house, exactly what was he supposed to do about it? The moment they accepted the gift, his eligibility was in doubt. If he turns them in, he's gone. So, what is the solution here?

The solution would have been for his Mom not to accept improper benefits... she could easily have waited until her son got took rich in this draft, THEN bought a new house without any impropriety whatsoever...

But if she did (and the evidence grows daily that this is EXACTLY what she did), then either Reggie should have been honest, told him Mom no to do it, or accept the consequences to himself and his team... sitting idly by and letting all this happen without one word makes him as dishonest as his family was for accepting that house in the first place...

More dishonest, actually, since he apparently reneged on his promises to the guy who built the house for his family, which is what has gotten him (or more accurately, the Trojan program) in hot water...

 

[silverbear]

Well Kevon, for one, if Reggie was in the dark about his parents and the house, his parents should be completely ashamed of themself. If they took it into their own hands to jeopardize Reggie and his college eligibility, they are complete a-holes. Anything could've happened to Reggie before or during the season, and he might have needed that final year of eligibility. Then to have this come out and get him kicked out of college? Really nice.

But I highly doubt the parents snuck around moving out of their house leaving their son completely in the dark.

Even if his family DID keep him in the dark on this, Reggie would have to be a special kind of stupid not to wonder how they could afford to move into a brand spanking new, 750 thousand dollar house...

Anybody who thinks that this all happened without Bush's knowledge is either incredibly naive or willfully blind...

 

[silverbear]

My parents did that while I was in college . . . my sister was nice enough to tell me before I showed up at Christmas break.

But my question is, what if his parents are sleezy and greedy and use promises of his future for the house. What realistically could Bush do?

That's a naive question, if you stop to think about it for a second; do you
REALLY think that the guy who provided the Griffin family with a brand new house worth three quarters of a million dollars would do so without express assurances from Reggie himself?? Can you see the guy making such an investment on the word of Bush's MOTHER??

You don't pass out benefits like that unless you have some reason to believe that the star athlete in question is on board with the plan...