Report: New start-up league could rival NFL

Doomsday101

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JustSayNotoTO;1514384 said:
I diddnt see this posted, its from Cubans blog.

is it crazy to try to compete with the NFL ?

I don't think so. Here is why:

1. There is obviously demand for top level professional football. That is exactly what the UFL hopes to be someday, an equal of the NFL, if not more.

2. The NFL wants and needs competition. They have grown so big and powerful that every move they make is scrutinized by local or federal officials. A competitor allows them to point to us and explain that their moves are for competitive reasons rather than the move of a monopoly.

3. They just extended their CBA. Their CBA structure is not designed for a competitive environment. Competition for top players, even if the UFL gets just a few, increases prices at the top end for all teams. Every star will get paid more, but still have to fit under the cap. That forces teams to use more low cost players, at the expense of signing the middle of the roster. That gives us access to quite a few very, very good NFL players. The downside is that it will significantly impact small market NFL teams and its unclear how the NFL would respond to that and what the impact would be on the UFL.

4. There are a lot of markets that are bigger than some current NFL markets that do not have teams that would love to have a pro football team.

5. There are a lot of smart people involved in the UFL

6. Its a great TV product.

These are just my personal reasons for having an interest in being involved with the UFL. They still have a ton of work to do before a game can be played. Like all good ideas with a great opportunity available to it, the hard part is in the execution.

Hopefully they can get it done.

It sounds a lot like what I heard when the USFL came into play. Owners with deep pockets, big name players, TV contract with ABC and ESPN and teams in cities that had no NFL team. Problems was ratings where not great and as player salaries rose and the league was not making the money they needed to keep up with rising player contract they could no longer keep the league self sufficient. Only reason the networks payout big money for the NFL contract is they know the viewers will be there.
 

dallasfaniac

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cowboyeric8;1514388 said:
I mean, I'm not objecting to this new league. But it will fail if it plans to play games during the same time as the NFL.

It will be low level talent, and it will be much of the same.

And just wondering, wouldn't this be about the same thing as Europa except played in the US. The Europa teams are made up of players who will probably just be NFL camp fodders or not even get a chance at the NFL.

Thats why Arena has been around for 21 years. Its not the same game, and its high scoring and fun to watch. The small field helps hide player skill deficiences in that league. But anyway, I love Arena football but nothing compared to my love for the NFL.

Anyway, thats just my 2 cents.

I agree, they wouldn't last long if they tried to compete directly with the NFL from the get go.

As far as the talent, no one allocates 10 year vets that may still have some gas in the tank to NFLE, so those that are left behind for whatever reason would still have a place in this league.

One problem with NFLE is the games are already decided before you get a chance to watch them in the US and you aren't able to go down to the ticket booth and spend 40 bucks to see them live.

The UFL can succeed depending upon the business model. Like I've said, if they just try to just stay alive for 5 years they would have a chance. They would be able to sell merchandise and season tickets. No one wants to buy them on a 1 year wonder.
 

dallasfaniac

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Doomsday101;1514400 said:
It sounds a lot like what I heard when the USFL came into play. Owners with deep pockets, big name players, TV contract with ABC and ESPN and teams in cities that had no NFL team. Problems was ratings where not great and as player salaries rose and the league was not making the money they needed to keep up with rising player contract they could no longer keep the league self sufficient. Only reason the networks payout big money for the NFL contract is they know the viewers will be there.

The USFL was getting more popular as the games went by but their downfall was twofold. First, their teams were located in cities that already had NFL franchises. Second, after just their second season, they moved from spring to fall games.

In both instances, they were directly competing with other professional franchises, either NFL, NBA or MLB.

I'm not saying the UFL will work, I'm saying that it can if they are smart.
 

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JustSayNotoTO;1514384 said:
I diddnt see this posted, its from Cubans blog.

is it crazy to try to compete with the NFL ?

I don't think so. Here is why:

3. They just extended their CBA. Their CBA structure is not designed for a competitive environment. Competition for top players, even if the UFL gets just a few, increases prices at the top end for all teams. Every star will get paid more, but still have to fit under the cap. That forces teams to use more low cost players, at the expense of signing the middle of the roster. That gives us access to quite a few very, very good NFL players. The downside is that it will significantly impact small market NFL teams and its unclear how the NFL would respond to that and what the impact would be on the UFL.
Strangely, I like the sound of that. Maybe the UFL isn't such a bad idea after all, at least over the short term. :) :eek:hboy: :devil:
 

Muhast

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I dont know about it being low talent. It would basically be all of those guys that would have to play juco for a few years and then goto a major school. They would opt to just go straight there. And for any of you who really follow college, a ton of huge players start out in juco.

Steve Smith, Chad Johnson are two notable nfl guys and im sure there are plenty more.

I think it COULD work. As long as they go for younger players instead of NFL wash ups
 

Pats Fan

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We have more and more people in this world. Not a good thing. The environment will tell us soon. Too many people.

So, what is the most successful team sport -- other than soccer?? In the US, that would be football. So more, always more is better??? Not.

In the old days, the AFC came into being. Me, it was great because more cities had a chance to have a team. But football is an American sport. And other than LA, we have enough. Soccer will always be the sport in Europe, South America, well, most of the world.

Football is the USA. I do not want to hear about a game in Europe. Nope. Not me. I do not want to hear about another league. Nope.

We frankly have enough.

More is not always better.

Can we just get back to a life is easier, not so global, just a plain simple life. I think that is why the world is just losing it.

Plain, simple fun. Global is not a word I like. And you know what, I LOVE the old Foxboro stadium. Love it. And you know what, I went to the Cotton Bowl stadium and watched Danny Don and Hayes, and it was great.

Bigger, better (???), more.

Enough already.

Global your butt.
 

joseephuss

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The Real Mavs Man;1513808 said:
I think it could work, but as other posters mentioned it would take good marketing and deep pockets from billionaire owners who are willing to lose millions over the first 4-5 years, if not more. The USFL failed because it went head-to-head against the NFL. The XFL failed becaused it missed it's target market; it tried for the Xtreme/wrestling crowd by showing poor quality football. If they had mixed in more of the wrestling element (storylined games) it would have been more interesting, appealed more to its base, and possibly lasted longer than it did.

For curiousity's sake, I looked up potential U.S. Markets w/o an NFL team (population of surrounding area):

L.A. - 12.9 million
Portland - 2 million
Orlando - 1.9 million
San Antonio - 1.9 million
Las Vegas - 1.8 million
Columbus - 1.7 million
Virginia Beach - 1.6 million
Austin - 1.5 million
Louisville - 1.2 million
Oklahoma City - 1.1 million

This would give them a 10 team league w/:
-3 west coast teams
-3 midwest teams
-2 Ohio valley teams
-2 east coast teams

I think that's a good mix, considering what's left, and includes a natural rivalry (Austin/San Antonio) two huge, unserviced markets (L.A. and Vegas), teams in states with huge high school followings.

They could go with three three-team divisions.

West:
L.A.
Vegas
Portland

Central:
OKC
SA
Austin

East:
Orlando
Columbus
Louisville

Division winners make the playoffs with one wild card.

Columbus and Austin have big time college football programs. That may take away from a possible pro team.

The American Football League came along at the right time in the early 60s. The NFL was not the monster that it is now. The NFL was just starting to expand with new franchises in Dallas and then Minnesota. If the AFL did not form, the NFL probably would have expanded even more. It is essentially what they did when the two leagues merged. I wonder what would have happened if the merger did not occur. I think the AFL would have folded. The NFL would have still grown, but it would have been a slow growth. The merger(or aquisition) of the AFL sped up the process.

The USFL came along at a decent time with a solid approach, but still could not compete with the NFL. The NFL had just become too big and powerful. In the present day, it is even a much more difficult task. Any new league will have to take the approach that they are not competing, but rather just providing an independent service. The Arena Football League has that approach and it has helped them survive and see some modest growth.
 

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JustSayNotoTO;1514660 said:
Have some coffee with your whiskey this morning, Patsfan?

Well, not a nice comment, but what the heck you may be 20 or under. Never saw anything different. I will let it go.

I don't know if you ever saw an NFL game say 15, 20 years ago. It was so much different. Way different. The average family could see a game, and afford it. Those days are gone.

New Pats stadium, minimum cost to go to a game -- bout $500. I don't know the prices in Dallas, but the average guy and his family simply cannot afford it. I was on the San Diego web site and they were all taking about how they were going to go to the Pats game -- ready to buy tickets. Well, reality came in. $400 a seat if you want something decent. Actually more.

I only say this because I really love the game of football, but I do not like the trend. Global, 17th game (heck no), well, I cannot fight what is going to happen, but my last love of any sport game is slowly, slowly going away.

Don't know what else to say.
 

Doomsday101

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joseephuss;1514662 said:
Columbus and Austin have big time college football programs. That may take away from a possible pro team.

The American Football League came along at the right time in the early 60s. The NFL was not the monster that it is now. The NFL was just starting to expand with new franchises in Dallas and then Minnesota. If the AFL did not form, the NFL probably would have expanded even more. It is essentially what they did when the two leagues merged. I wonder what would have happened if the merger did not occur. I think the AFL would have folded. The NFL would have still grown, but it would have been a slow growth. The merger(or aquisition) of the AFL sped up the process.

The USFL came along at a decent time with a solid approach, but still could not compete with the NFL. The NFL had just become too big and powerful. In the present day, it is even a much more difficult task. Any new league will have to take the approach that they are not competing, but rather just providing an independent service. The Arena Football League has that approach and it has helped them survive and see some modest growth.

You also have some NFL owners who are part of the AFL. To me the AFL is just as different from Pro Football as the indoor soccer league is to MSL
 

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Hostile;1513033 said:
WFL
USFL
XFL

Now UFL?

Everyone thinks they are Lamar Hunt, Ralph Wilson, and Al Davis, et al.

They aren't. Give it 2, maybe 3 years before it pushes up daisies.

You never know get the right cities and establish a following, maybe ESPN or Fox pick up a game or two. You never know.
 

Doomsday101

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NEW YORK (AP) -- Dallas Mavericks owner Mark Cuban is part of a group considering formation of a football league that would compete with the NFL for players drafted lower than the second round.

The league, still very much in the preliminary stage, would play its games on Friday nights. The NFL does not play then because of the potential conflict with high school football.

"It's a pretty simple concept," Cuban said in an e-mail to The Associated Press. "We think there is more demand for pro football than supply."

The proposal was first disclosed by The New York Times on its Web site, which said it was the idea of Bill Hambrecht, a Wall Street investor who was a minority partner in the Oakland Invaders of the USFL, which played in the spring from 1983-85. Sharon Smith, a spokeswoman for Hambrecht and Company, had no comment and said Hambrecht was traveling and unavailable to talk about the idea.

NFL spokesman Greg Aiello said he was aware of the proposed league, but had no further comment.

There have been numerous leagues that have tried to compete with the NFL and a few that actually played games, starting with the AFL, which began in 1960 and fully merged with the NFL a decade later. It included such current franchises as New England, Oakland, Kansas City, San Diego, Buffalo, the New York Jets and Denver.

More recently came the World Football League in the early 1970s, which raided the NFL for such stars as Larry Csonka. Then came the USFL, which played in the spring before folding after receiving only $3 in an antitrust "victory" over the NFL.

The USFL featured such future Hall of Famers as Jim Kelly, Reggie White and Steve Young, but lost millions of dollars trying to compete for players. It also had internal struggles among a majority of owners who wanted to stay in the spring, and the best known among them, Donald Trump, who wanted to move to the fall and try to force a merger with the NFL.

The most recent pro football league was the XFL, founded by the World Wrestling Federation and televised by NBC. The XFL lasted just three months in the spring of 2001 and was best known for a player named Rod Smart, called "He Hate Me," who later played as a return man and backup running back in the NFL.

So far, the proposed new league is in its infancy and Cuban is the only potential owner for what the founders hope will be an eight-team league.

Cuban said in his e-mail he believes the salary cap makes it easier to compete financially with the NFL because of the salary imbalance that leaves lower-level players with lower salaries. That would allow the new league to fill its rosters with players taken lower than the second round, as well as late NFL cuts and free agents who escape the NFL draft.

Many such players, including Tom Brady, a sixth-round pick of New England, have become NFL stars.

"That's not to say it will be easy. It won't," Cuban wrote. "We still have to cover quite a bit of ground and have a lot of milestones to hit. That said, if we can get the right owners I obviously think we can make this work."

Copyright 2007 Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.
 

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dallasfaniac;1514379 said:
Yes, ABC and ESPN are both owned by Disney, which makes them the same. However, ABC severed ties with the NFL because they were losing millions, plus the NFL wanted them to take Sunday night games instead which conflicted with their popular shows. The NFL did not strongarm stations that showed the XFL so I'm not sure what they would do in this case. Besides, ESPN was around long before handling MNF, so I'm not sure what kind of strongarming they could do towards a sister station.

Edit: Also, isn't this the digital age? Couldn't they just stream their games on the internet and handle the advertising revenue themselves?

Since ABC and ESPN are really the same company, Disney did not in fact lose MNF. They transfered it to ESPN. ABC did not really sever ties with the NFL per se, but rather, they moved it to a station that made more sense to them monetarily. It's Disney making the decisions here, not ABC.

ESPN wouldn't be strong-arming ABC, but rather the NFL would be strong-arming Disney.

Disney still wants to have MNF on ESPN, putting the UFL on ABC would risk that. The NFL can't do anything about the UFL showing up on the CW or on any other separate station, but it I can be pretty sure that CBS, NBC, Fox, ABC and ESPN would tend to shy away from it.

Streaming is a possibility, but not everyone has their TVs hooked up to their computers. how really wants to watch football on a computer monitor?

"Versus" has to be drooling over the idea though.
 

Angus

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The contract between the NFL and the players' union comes up for renewal in the fall of 2008. Either party could opt out, and if one did, the opportunity for a new league to capture players and fan attention would be enhanced.

The threat of that might strengthen the union's hand in renewal negotiations. Under some circumstances there could be a mass exodus by NFL players.

Some teams are already worried about that time. Not expressly about the threat of another league, but possible changes. See the tail end of this article published today:

http://www.packersnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070531/PKR01/705310520/1989

:)
 

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The future of pro football is here!
Upstart Football League

Copyright 2007. Insane Cuban Forecasting. All rights reserved.​
 

Yakuza Rich

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BouncingCheese;1513139 said:
Haha...XFL anybody?

I don't know anything about Bill Hambrecht and Tim Armstrong, but I look forward to them almost knocking out Bob Costas ala Vince Mcmahon when this league fails
http://youtube.com/watch?v=1CPLzDIBwpQ
(please watch, it is possibly some of the greatest tv ever; I love Vince, the big um-dumb)

The only think the new league has going for it over the XFL is that Cuban has pretty much been very successful in almost every endeavor he's taken over. On the flip side, McMahon has been wildly unsuccessful in endeavors he's taken outside of pro wrestling. I think his movie making project is doing decent, but other than that the other endeavors failed miserably.

Still, this ain't gonna work.




YAKUZA
 

burmafrd

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MONEY. The big factor. The league will need 8 guys willing to lose a lot of it for years. They have to be ready to only get a small amount of money from TV or anything else. Most of it is going to come out of THEIR pockets.
How many established players will jump without guaranteed contracts- NONE. So all THAT money has to be spent up front. First year losses will be at least 20-40 million for each franchise. Odds are against any kind of profit for at least 5 years. Just how are they going to get 8 billionaires willing to do that?
 
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