Review of LB Anthony Hitchens against LSU

Alexander

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The bottom line is you don't know what 31 other teams' draft boards looked like so all of this "reach" talk is BS. It's based on speculation, so there is nothing empirical about it at all.

And the Cowboys didn't reach for him if they had him graded as a 4th rounder. Now if they had him graded as a 5th or 6th rounder and drafted him in the 4th it'd be a reach.

Get over it.

Who said I did know the other draft boards?

I might as well engage you in a discussion of whether or not leprechauns exist, there is just as much hard evidence to go off of.

I can only go off of what you, I and anyone else has available.

And based on that empirical evidence, it was a reach.

And I will state this again, I feel very very very confident we will not see a "leaked" draft board this year.

Mainly because it will show Jerry Jones jumped the board based on coach input.
 

Alexander

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So Todd Archer no longer counts?

Todd Archer mentioning something he heard--once--in a chat?

Not really. It just him hearing what he has heard.

And for all we know, it came off of a platform like this unless he states otherwise.

Which of course, he hasn't.
 

Proximo

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Who said I did know the other draft boards?

I might as well engage you in a discussion of whether or not leprechauns exist, there is just as much hard evidence to go off of.

I can only go off of what you, I and anyone else has available.

And based on that empirical evidence, it was a reach.

And I will state this again, I feel very very very confident we will not see a "leaked" draft board this year.

Mainly because it will show Jerry Jones jumped the board based on coach input.

There is no "empirical evidence". It's all speculation. You badger other posters for links that show evidence that Hitchens wasn't a reach. Where's your evidence that he was a reach?

Let me answer for you: there is none. You don't know what the Cowboys' draft board looked like. And you don't know what the other 31 teams' draft boards looked like.
 

speedkilz88

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Todd Archer mentioning something he heard--once--in a chat?

Not really. It just him hearing what he has heard.

And for all we know, it came off of a platform like this unless he states otherwise.

Which of course, he hasn't.


This is comical.
 

Fla Cowpoke

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Alexander can make completely random and unfounded statements without question....don't you know that guys? The rest of us have to prove it to him with a link.

The biggest thing with Hitchens is that none of us know for sure where he was on other boards. There are statements out there that saw the Seahawks liked him and were ready to take him from someone that at the very least is more "connected" with the Seahawks than any poster on this board is.

But the whole reach thing will correct itself if the guy shows he can play. It happened with Frederick. It happened with Romo. It happened with Austin and Jay Ratliff. There is no way any of those guys should have been able to contribute based upon their draft status.

Heck, when Seattle drafted Bruce Irvin, everyone screamed reach until he started racking up sacks. When the Pats drafted Logan Mankins, everyone wondered who the hell he was. It happens ALL the time.
 

Maxmadden

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There is no "empirical evidence". It's all speculation. You badger other posters for links that show evidence that Hitchens wasn't a reach. Where's your evidence that he was a reach?

Let me answer for you: there is none. You don't know what the Cowboys' draft board looked like. And you don't know what the other 31 teams' draft boards looked like.

"And I will state this again, I feel very very very confident we will not see a "leaked" draft board this year.

Mainly because it will show Jerry Jones jumped the board based on coach input."


I am not the smartest tool in the shed but I wished a had the ability to jump to conclusions like this.
 

Tobal

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The Hitchens pick blind sided me, but outside of Cowboys fans and Dallas media no one made a huge deal over it. When Carter was picked ESPN had a melt down. (so did I). Last yr everyone lost it because Frederick was picked in the 1st and all the experts said he'd be available in the 3rd.... Even when he played well some of the people on here still claim he could have been taken in the 3rd.... People ignore the fact that all it takes is one of 31 teams to feel that said player is who they want.

Would I have picked Hitchens? No. I wouldn't bet $10 that he'd be there in the 5th though.
 

speedkilz88

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The Hitchens pick blind sided me, but outside of Cowboys fans and Dallas media no one made a huge deal over it. When Carter was picked ESPN had a melt down. (so did I). Last yr everyone lost it because Frederick was picked in the 1st and all the experts said he'd be available in the 3rd.... Even when he played well some of the people on here still claim he could have been taken in the 3rd.... People ignore the fact that all it takes is one of 31 teams to feel that said player is who they want.

Would I have picked Hitchens? No. I wouldn't bet $10 that he'd be there in the 5th though.

And they still got the guy (WR Devin Street) that they would have taken instead of Hitchens in the 5th.
 

Risen Star

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And they still got the guy (WR Devin Street) that they would have taken instead of Hitchens in the 5th.

Which ought to concern you that their targets are usually there. Like when they decided to risk losing Matt Johnson by taking Kyle Wilber with their first 4th. They had to sweat that out.

They don't have the greatest feel for value in the draft.
 

RonSpringsdaman20

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Hitchens was a reach, fortunately he has a chance to prove himself... although i'm sure some hopes he fails so they can say "Itolduso!"
 

starfrombirth

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This post is very stupid. Everyone else? Have to love people appealing to the bandwagon....There is no objective board to go by and fan consensus is just about worthless. Risen Star mock drafts as the standard by which to judge things are about as stupid as one can get.

I'm just curious when "everyone else" posted their board so that we could see they had Hitchens rated much lower than we did. Haven't we heard that teams like San Francisco, Seattle, and New England were looking to take him if we didn't? Just saying.
 

Alexander

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There is no "empirical evidence". It's all speculation. You badger other posters for links that show evidence that Hitchens wasn't a reach. Where's your evidence that he was a reach?

Let me answer for you: there is none. You don't know what the Cowboys' draft board looked like. And you don't know what the other 31 teams' draft boards looked like.

The evidence is what information is available, namely being the rankings by the draft publications and pundits. By using those as a measuring stick, he was unquestionably a reach. If all you have is that to base a judgment on, that is all there is to it.

If you basically say that since nobody knows what the boards looked like, then it is the height of hypocrisy to criticize any team for "reaching" on a player.

So from this point forward, I would expect that you and anyone else snicker when a team like the Eagles takes Marcus Smith several rounds higher than expected. We do not know their board either.
 

Alexander

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And they still got the guy (WR Devin Street) that they would have taken instead of Hitchens in the 5th.

And that is what is meant by jumping the board.

If there was a commitment to sticking to the board, Street, not Hitchens should have been the selection in the 4th since we had him as a 3rd round choice.
 

ThreeandOut

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Which ought to concern you that their targets are usually there. Like when they decided to risk losing Matt Johnson by taking Kyle Wilber with their first 4th. They had to sweat that out.

They don't have the greatest feel for value in the draft.

So when they don't stick to their board, you criticize them for not sticking to their board. When they stick to their board, you say that their board is wrong.
 

DBOY3141

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Seriously?

Okay.

You can look them up for yourself. It should not take you long.

And in fact, if you want, you could spend hours upon hours, scouring every single draft site you could and you would not find it.

Even the most staunch supporter of the pick cannot find a single solitary source that states Anthony Hitchens was chosen where his pick meant value. Instead it means off hand quotes in a chat, citing a Seahawks source, etc.

It still does not refute the reality. He was viewed as a reach. Whether he is or not, is up to him.

Right now, that is what we have from an empirical standpoint. Overall, he was viewed as a reach. Period. Move on.

It is another thing entirely if you want to discount popular opinion.

If you do, then please state who do believe.

Honestly, it seems like whenever the Cowboys reach on a player, it means digging and grasping for validation.

And rarely does it pay off. And don't start with the Frederick thing. He was not projected as a third round/fourth round guy. He was always acknowledged as one of the better center prospects in that draft as far as a year out. He had a bad Combine and the barometer went down. But he was not some unearthed gem that Dallas somehow discovered.

That is the big difference here. He is the LB version of Matt Johnson.

A "clever" pick that apparently some coach had a fancy to.

There is a reason why players get assigned consensus values. The scouts are a rarely heard bunch and they are the ones who feed the mass media draftniks most of their information.

When coaches get involved, which they clearly did here, you have reaches.

When you say sources, don't know if you are talking about team sources or media draft guides, but the Draft Nasty magazine produced by Corey Chavous had Hitchens as a fourth rounder. Most others I saw/read had him as a 6th/7th/UDFA.
 

starfrombirth

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"Routinely"?

Where? A comment in an article? I must have missed it. Source please.

And what was his source? Was it named or is it in the vague nether sphere of rumor that somehow becomes "fact" when it is convenient.

Was it "birddog" who somehow is the secret "Deep Throat" source that BTB seems to hold up on a pedestal?

If the Cowboys rated Hitchens as a fourth round choice, fine. I just have a real concern with attaching his selection to the idea other teams "wanted him".

Other teams wanted Quincy Carter and it prompted Jerry Jones to react.

Well then where are your sources saying that he was rated lower, other than your "expert" opinion.
 

cowboy_ron

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Alexander can make completely random and unfounded statements without question....don't you know that guys? The rest of us have to prove it to him with a link.

The biggest thing with Hitchens is that none of us know for sure where he was on other boards. There are statements out there that saw the Seahawks liked him and were ready to take him from someone that at the very least is more "connected" with the Seahawks than any poster on this board is.

But the whole reach thing will correct itself if the guy shows he can play. It happened with Frederick. It happened with Romo. It happened with Austin and Jay Ratliff. There is no way any of those guys should have been able to contribute based upon their draft status.

Heck, when Seattle drafted Bruce Irvin, everyone screamed reach until he started racking up sacks. When the Pats drafted Logan Mankins, everyone wondered who the hell he was. It happens ALL the time.
I caught that yesterday and figured e was just trolling and trying to stir the pot so I dropped out of this discussion
 
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