Richie Incognito suspended indefinitely...

[Yakuza Rich]

I don't think either of these guys play another snap in the NFL. Martin can change the NFL for the better though, and that is a good thing. NFL rookies are the "new black" apparently, and this transparent look into the situation can be the disinfectant for it.

I was in a fraternity in college so I'm familiar with the environment where hazing is allowed. I really don't have a problem with most hazing because most of it is harmless and teaches a good lesson of humility and learning how to laugh at yourself and not think you are better than people.

That's why I don't mind the crazy haircuts that O-Linemen give to the rookies. It teaches those lessons. Or stuff like Parcells would do by making the 1st round pick get him water and the 2nd round pick get donuts for the coaches, etc. I do think these are positive things.

Unfortunately, there are people that go to far. Like the $50K bill left for Dez.

As far as Incognito goes, my experience in the fraternity...and I will bet that others in fraternities experienced this as well....the guys that are the biggest hazers usually did *not* get hazed when they were pledging. They usually got left alone for some reason or make a big deal about having to do the smallest thing. Then once they were inducted into the fraternity, they are the ones that are hazing pledges and talk about how much they were hazed as a pledge (even though in reality, they didn't do jack).

I would bet anything that when Incognito was a rookie he probably was never hazed.







YR

 

[AbeBeta]

That seems to only happen if the bully wins the physical confrontation, and the majority of the time, the bully surrounds themselves with other cowards who feel bolder when they have strength in numbers. The victim is also less likely to choose the time and place of this confrontation, and the bully has the advantage. Hence why sometimes, the victim may lose it and seek out weapons that can inflict maximum harm on a large number of people.

Which is yet another reason why sick individuals like Incognitio need to be handled correctly, and the poor work environment in Miami was a contributing factor. Philbin claimed last sunday he wasn't aware of what was going on and Martin never came to him, then why did he have a prepared statement about Martin's absence before this whole story broke? They had their PR department working on this, and likely knew this was going to get bad as soon as Martin went AWOL.

Generally bullies bully those that they know they can defeat. So the old advice to stand up and fight the bully is sorta stupid and self-defeating. Now what Martin should have done was a) stand up to the bully -- let Richie know he was not afraid of him and b) reported the harassment to his coaches, his agent, the NFLPA , etc. if he didn't get satisfaction there

 

[AbeBeta]

I have found that standing up to a bully usually tends to make the bully move on to someone else. Someone who is easier to bully. They like it when nobody stands up to them or fights back, .. or even backs down from them.

I could give a couple of examples, .. but bullies normally aren't having fun if you fight back. They will find an easier target.

Hard for me to understand how it got to this point for a guy that is 6' 5" and 312 lbs.

Yet this is exactly the opposite of what years of research on bullying tells us. But I do know you WV and I know you ignore science regularly so I won't pursue it.

 

[WV Cowboy]

But I do know you WV and I know you ignore science regularly so I won't pursue it.

You won't pursue it, .. what does that even mean?

But Thank you.

I'll go by my own life experiences instead of what someone wrote in a book.

Bullies are generally insecure and somewhat cowardly deep at heart. They want to project a certain image, but when confronted aren't that anxious to continue.

Still, in this case, if you are 6'5" and 312, it is not a great risk to stand up for yourself. Many many kids have been bullied that did not have that luxury.

 

[RastaRocket]

You won't pursue it, .. what does that even mean?

But Thank you.

I'll go by my own life experiences instead of what someone wrote in a book.

Bullies are generally insecure and somewhat cowardly deep at heart. They want to project a certain image, but when confronted aren't that anxious to continue.

Still, in this case, if you are 6'5" and 312, it is not a great risk to stand up for yourself. Many many kids have been bullied that did not have that luxury.

Are you saying Martin didn't stand up for himself?

 

[BigStar]

I agree. And I've seen guys who were being bullied that were much smaller than their bully step up to that bully. And I've seen times where they will stop at no end to get back at that bully. So this 'oh, you wouldn't do anything about it either' kinda falls flat for me. I'm not sure what I would do. But, I've seen people in my life at a much bigger disadvantage go to extraordinary lengths to own somebody that bullied him.

A sort of famous example I can think of is Jacques Rougeau getting back at the Dynamite Kid for bullying him. 4 front teeth knocked out later and that put an end to him being bullied.






YR

Martin would kill fat man Icognito in real boxing, that aint the issue here....I know its not PC but older guys get winded MUCH faster in real, fist fights. Kinda sad to see them step to youngin cus they usually are in the right, doesn't stop them from showing their age after being knocked out and they are GRASPING for breath...sorry for going off topic there. JM comes from a good upbringing and doesn't whoop his elders

 

[AbeBeta]

You won't pursue it, .. what does that even mean?

But Thank you.

I'll go by my own life experiences instead of what someone wrote in a book.

Bullies are generally insecure and somewhat cowardly deep at heart. They want to project a certain image, but when confronted aren't that anxious to continue.

Still, in this case, if you are 6'5" and 312, it is not a great risk to stand up for yourself. Many many kids have been bullied that did not have that luxury.

Yes -- the experience of one person outweighs research done on tens of thousands. Someone does not understand basic concepts like variability.

And honestly being 6'5" and 312 really doesn't get you anywhere if your assailant is 6'3" and 319 with serious anger management problems and thug mentality.

 

[AbeBeta]

Are you saying Martin didn't stand up for himself?

He did stand up for himself. In a way that adults should.

 

[BigStar]

He did stand up for himself. In a way that adults should.

Respect him even moreseo that he took the adult method. He could flatten Incognito, he just doesn't want to get himself "that" kind of dirty...beating up the old redneck on the team with a drinking problem. He wouldn't have made it this far without scrapping once or twice ON the field. That is what those vm's and texts remind me of more than anything, doesn't help that he is as true a bigot that you caould find outside of white supremacist org'.s.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

Martin would kill fat man Icognito in real boxing, that aint the issue here....I know its not PC but older guys get winded MUCH faster in real, fist fights. Kinda sad to see them step to youngin cus they usually are in the right, doesn't stop them from showing their age after being knocked out and they are GRASPING for breath...sorry for going off topic there. JM comes from a good upbringing and doesn't whoop his elders

My experience in fights and watching fist fights is usually the guy that is more angry is the one that wins. That and the guy that gets the first real good shot in.





RH

 

[Yakuza Rich]

Respect him even moreseo that he took the adult method. He could flatten Incognito, he just doesn't want to get himself "that" kind of dirty...beating up the old redneck on the team with a drinking problem. He wouldn't have made it this far without scrapping once or twice ON the field. That is what those vm's and texts remind me of more than anything, doesn't help that he is as true a bigot that you caould find outside of white supremacist org'.s.

I think there is more to this story than meets the eye. A part of the problem is that the media doesn't care to vet the entire story and to find out the context. They are more interested in the narrative that sells and sticking to it as well as 'breaking the story.'

So I have a hard time believing the media's account on this. And from my experience, you have to wait a few months until everything is uncovered to really understand the story.

So that's why I think there is more to this story than is being presented right now.

That and I have a lot of questions as well. Like Martin not going to the team privately and saying that RI is taking things too far. And that if something isn't done about it, he could file a lawsuit against the team and make this public.

Instead he went AWOL, which isn't really the 'adult method' either. That's unless he absolutely had no other choice.

If anything, it just makes me wonder what is really going on there and we ain't going to get the real story from Adam Schefter and those other clowns at ESPN.





YR

 

[jobberone]

Just saw tape on tv. This guy doesnt have even run of the mill racism and anger issues. This guy has a rage in him I've never seen outside prison walls. He should be considered dangerous.

 

[BigStar]

I think there is more to this story than meets the eye. A part of the problem is that the media doesn't care to vet the entire story and to find out the context. They are more interested in the narrative that sells and sticking to it as well as 'breaking the story.'

So I have a hard time believing the media's account on this. And from my experience, you have to wait a few months until everything is uncovered to really understand the story.

So that's why I think there is more to this story than is being presented right now.

That and I have a lot of questions as well. Like Martin not going to the team privately and saying that RI is taking things too far. And that if something isn't done about it, he could file a lawsuit against the team and make this public.

Instead he went AWOL, which isn't really the 'adult method' either. That's unless he absolutely had no other choice.

If anything, it just makes me wonder what is really going on there and we ain't going to get the real story from Adam Schefter and those other clowns at ESPN.



YR

You make some good points there Yakuza (love the videgame btw). It is nowhere near as simple as I wanted to believe. Especially your point about Martin going AWOL. With his intelligence and family background, it doesn't seem like the brightest way to ensure you awarded damages by at least abiding by his contract until all other resources were exhausted. There is a lot more to this than what we are currently being bit and pieced by the media on this...

 

[BigStar]

My experience in fights and watching fist fights is usually the guy that is more angry is the one that wins. That and the guy that gets the first real good shot in.





RH

The first real shot I can agree with (people forgot how little guys REALLY connect in street fights) but the anger aspect is overrated from my perspective. Very rarely do VERY ANGRY people want to fist fight at all, they want vengeance; weapons, urban violent retaliation, etc. Before gunplay is involved, I would agree the premise that the angry dog usually has more bite...

 

[RastaRocket]

He did stand up for himself. In a way that adults should.

I completely agree. I got the vibe that WV is trying to say he should fight Incognito, but I was unsure. To me, "standing up" to Incognito in that way is completely unprofessional and only brings him down to Incognito's level. Martin has every right to not be harassed at his place of work, and not only did he go about it the right way, he went about it the only way that technically should keep his job security in tact. It is an absolute disgrace that this guy is being cast out as a "snitch" for what he did. At least he has a good education, and it is clearly showing it in this case.

 

[RastaRocket]

"it is clearly showing in this case"

 

[AbeBeta]

I completely agree. I got the vibe that WV is trying to say he should fight Incognito, but I was unsure. To me, "standing up" to Incognito in that way is completely unprofessional and only brings him down to Incognito's level. Martin has every right to not be harassed at his place of work, and not only did he go about it the right way, he went about it the only way that technically should keep his job security in tact. It is an absolute disgrace that this guy is being cast out as a "snitch" for what he did. At least he has a good education, and it is clearly showing it in this case.

He just cost Incognito 1.0 mill at the very minimum. That's better than any outcome that could have come from fighting.

 

[Hoofbite]

Me vs Richie? 1 on 1? No weapon?

Yeah, I'm outta there.

I won't start singing though until, I get him back someway, and I have to own up to it.

Your series of posts in this thread read like a "what not to do" book for dummies.

 

[Hoofbite]

Generally bullies bully those that they know they can defeat. So the old advice to stand up and fight the bully is sorta stupid and self-defeating. Now what Martin should have done was a) stand up to the bully -- let Richie know he was not afraid of him and b) reported the harassment to his coaches, his agent, the NFLPA , etc. if he didn't get satisfaction there

I think the problem is that this is not an isolated incident. I would wager players treating certain players like completely crap is pretty normal but most guys just get through it. Most of these players have come from backgrounds where someone bullying you is the least of your problems.

If this sort of stuff is relatively common then telling someone about it isn't going to do anything. Their response could be, "so".

This kid isn't stupid and I doubt that he simply kept it to himself without telling anyone. If it's as blatant as it seems then everyone in the organization who had a daily presence in the locker room knew about it.

I don't think he left the team because Richie was harassing him. I think he likely left the team because the team didn't do anything to help him.

 

[Tabascocat]

Looks like the Miami coaches issued a "code red" to toughen up Martin. This story is just getting warm........