Rick Reilly: Tiger needs to clean up his act

[lewpac]

Sure thing..!! But let's do so in the context of the sport Woods plays. I know you consider this a lot of "blah blah blah" nonsense but the simple fact of the matter is that golf is a gentleman's game above and beyond any other sport. There are no referees calling technical fouls or throwing 15 yard penalty flags. The players police themselves. I remember watching some golfer lining up to putt and the ball moved like a quarter inch on its own. So he immediately stepped away from the ball and called a one stroke penalty on himself.

So until some referee says Lebron James was fouled and Lebron says to the ref "no, that foul should actually be called on me since I was charging - let's give the ball to the other team" then pretty much any comparison to other sports are worthless.
No, it's not unsportsmanlike to be mad at yourself. But it is unsportsmanlike in golf to regularly drop f-bombs and slam your clubs into the ground.Then you must not watch sports terribly often. If you throw your bat down in anger or frustration in baseball, you can get kicked out of the game (I am not saying it always happens, but it certainly can). If you slam the ball to the floor in basketball they can call a technical on you. Take your helmet off in football and that's 15 yards.

I am surprised you have never seen any of those things happen.
I agree that he has never done any of those things to other players. But throwing temper tantrums on the golf course is unsportsmanlike.

I can nit-pick at your response the way you do to my post, but in the end we're just agree to disagree.............

Throwing a bat down at the plate: Happens probably a half dozen times a game, and I've NEVER seen a player ejected or reprimanded for it. Not "unsportsmanlike". s long as it occurs like it DOES OCCUR 99% of the time, where the batter simply slams his bat and walks back to the dugout. Hell, I see batters all the time, usually on a called-strike-three, turn and give the ump stink-eye or mutter something under his breath, and no ejection.

Slamming the basketball on the court: That's a technical and unsportsmanlike because it causes a DELAY OF GAME. It affects the other players, coaches and fans and is a childish waste of everyones time. So that's off the table..........

Taking a helmet off: Again, many times it creates a delay of game. At the very least it's showboating. Sometimes, its a safety issue. All legit "unsporstmanlike" stuff because it affects other people and players. Usually, it's also an "In your Face" manuever as well.

So, we're back to Tiger Woods and golf. You've got you're opinion and you've been fighting mightily for it the last couple pages. I've got my opinion that I've clearly stated a couple/few times here. Just so happens the MY opinion is closer to what the PGA thinks about Tigers "sportsmanship" or lack thereof. Because I'VE NEVER HEARD OR SEEN any fines or reprimanding or scolding or penalty toward Tiger Woods by the Governing Body of the sport he so dominates.

One would think that if your opinion, that you seem to think is written in stone about sportmanship and ettiquite in golf......................That if you're opinion were indeed the lay of the land, and if Tiger Woods has a chronic habit of bad behaviour, the the PGA would've done something about it by now.

Surely, the PGA knows the rules of decorum and gentlemenly behavior and proper golf ettiquite and correct sportsmanship when it comes to the very game they regulate and govern. I would like for you to provide ONE (as in single, uno, any) example of when the PGA slapped TIger down for this supposed dastardy behavior you deem is such a cancer to the sport.

I'm waiting...........................

 

[Rogah]

I can nit-pick at your response the way you do to my post, but in the end we're just agree to disagree.............

I think that's really the best way to go. I don't know why my opinion upsets you so much - quite honestly, I think you need to relax a bit considering how agitated your last post demonstrates you to be.

Meanwhile, here's an example of Tiger's tremendous sportsmanship that you are infatuated with.
[youtube]Q-Y1T761x5I[/youtube]

 

[Rogah]

Surely, the PGA knows the rules of decorum and gentlemenly behavior and proper golf ettiquite and correct sportsmanship when it comes to the very game they regulate and govern. I would like for you to provide ONE (as in single, uno, any) example of when the PGA slapped TIger down for this supposed dastardy behavior you deem is such a cancer to the sport.

I'm waiting...........................

BTW, the PGA has the position that "all disciplinary action is handled directly between the Tour and the player" and it is PGA policy not to disclose information about fines. (I wonder if you knew that when you asked me your question...)

In other words, it's entirely possible (quite likely even) that Woods has been fined and it just had never been made public.

 

[lewpac]

BTW, the PGA has the position that "all disciplinary action is handled directly between the Tour and the player" and it is PGA policy not to disclose information about fines. (I wonder if you knew that when you asked me your question...)

In other words, it's entirely possible (quite likely even) that Woods has been fined and it just wasn never made public.

Nah, your reaching now. You've been checkmated. And it shows, because your reduced to a little bit of character assault on me.

NO WAY, ON THIS, GODS GREEN EARTH, that if Tiger Woods got called out by the PGA, that you wouldn't hear about it. NO WAY!!

And, your "attack the messenger" skirt is showing. Becuase you're flirting with it and coming close to the edge of it. It's classic. When you run out of arguments, attack your opponents character.

Your "PGA handles things privately" thing is full of ****. Because just a week ago, the rumor of Tiger being penalized for complaining about the "clock" issue came out. It ran it's course and was dismissed, but it was a headline for a couple/few days.

Face it. You're in the VAST minority regarding this issue. It's almost to the point that you have some personal vendetta against Tiger Woods, because you won't shut the hell up about it. No one except for YOU cares a rats *** about his supposed cussing or temper.

Bottom line, is that to hear YOU tell the story, is that Tiger Woods is "out of control" and "running rampant" around the PGA Tour cussing and throwing clubs. THAT'S THE PICTURE that you're painting. And I'll akss you again......................You fancy yourself as the "Golf Manners" guru. So show us ONE EXAMPLE of the PGA coming down on Tiger for his behavior.

I'm STILL waiting................

 

[Rogah]

Nah, your reaching now. You've been checkmated. And it shows, because your reduced to a little bit of character assault on me.

NO WAY, ON THIS, GODS GREEN EARTH, that if Tiger Woods got called out by the PGA, that you wouldn't hear about it. NO WAY!!

Oh really? And how long have you worked with the PGA that you know that this is true?

And, your "attack the messenger" skirt is showing. Becuase you're flirting with it and coming close to the edge of it. It's classic. When you run out of arguments, attack your opponents character.

Your "PGA handles things privately" thing is full of ****. Because just a week ago, the rumor of Tiger being penalized for complaining about the "clock" issue came out. It ran it's course and was dismissed, but it was a headline for a couple/few days.

Right - and the headlines were all incorrect. So thank you for supporting the point I am trying to make, and that is that PGA fines are by and large a private matter.

Face it. You're in the VAST minority regarding this issue. It's almost to the point that you have some personal vendetta against Tiger Woods, because you won't shut the hell up about it. No one except for YOU cares a rats *** about his supposed cussing or temper.

You've become complete unhinged on this issue, so you can spare me the accusations of having some sort of personal vendetta. Sure, my opinion is in the minority, but I don't think it's as "vast" of a minority as you seem to think. This Rick Reilly article wasn't the first complaint I've heard about Tiger's actions, and I doubt it'll be the last.

Bottom line, is that to hear YOU tell the story, is that Tiger Woods is "out of control" and "running rampant" around the PGA Tour cussing and throwing clubs. THAT'S THE PICTURE that you're painting.

And now you're rsorting to putting words in my mouth (and using quotation marks, no less). The ultimate sign of someone with a bankrupt arguement.

And I'll akss you again......................You fancy yourself as the "Golf Manners" guru.

No, what I have said is that when watching golf, I see Woods engaging in unsportsmanlike behavior far above and beyond that of any of the other particiapnts.

So show us ONE EXAMPLE of the PGA coming down on Tiger for his behavior.

And I'll answer again: The PGA's policy is to do such things completely in private. It is entirely possible, in fact quite likely, that he has indeed been fined. What part of that do you not understand?

I'm STILL waiting................

Is this how you always debate..? Ask a question, say "I'M WAITING", get an answer to the question and since the answer was one you didn't like, ask the exact same question again and say "I'M STILL WAITING!!"

Interesting strategy. It's exactly what my STBX wife does.

 

[Doomsday101]

You keep bringing up other athletes from other sports, but as we have established, sportsmanship within the context of golf is far different than sportsmanship within the context of football or basketball.

Go to a football game and scream your head off before every important play. Go to a golf tournament and do the same. Then let us know if you're treated the same way in each sport, or if there are different expectation between golf and football for the fans and the participants.

They are all played by humans who have these emotions. The comment about screaming at a football game or golf tournament has nothing to do with the people playing. These athletes are not playing for you or any fan they are playing for themselves or their team. These are not robots they are people and believe it or not we are not the same we all express emotion differently.

 

[Rogah]

They are all played by humans who have these emotions. The comment about screaming at a football game or golf tournament has nothing to do with the people playing. These athletes are not playing for you or any fan they are playing for themselves or their team. These are not robots they are people and believe it or not we are not the same we all express emotion differently.

Absolutely. But what cannot be debated is the simple fact that different sports have different ideas of what they require in good sportsmanship. You'll never see Kobe Bryant call a foul against himself, not will you ever see an offensive lineman go up to the referee and say "Sir, I was holding on that last play... please penalize my team 10 yards.."

But in golf, the players are expected to call fouls on themselves if appropriate. So all these attempts to justify Tiger's actions by bringing up other players from other sports are just irrelevant.

 

[lewpac]

Absolutely. But what cannot be debated is the simple fact that different sports have different ideas of what they require in good sportsmanship. You'll never see Kobe Bryant call a foul against himself, not will you ever see an offensive lineman go up to the referee and say "Sir, I was holding on that last play... please penalize my team 10 yards.."

But in golf, the players are expected to call fouls on themselves if appropriate. So all these attempts to justify Tiger's actions by bringing up other players from other sports are just irrelevant.

Dude, you're on a Tiger Woods witch hunt. Get another hobby already........

 

[Rogah]

Dude, you're on a Tiger Woods witch hunt. Get another hobby already........

Quite the contrary. I respect and admire the guy as well as what he has done for the game. He's the greatest golfer that ever lived and arguably no one has ever dominated any sports as well as Tiger has dominated his.

That's why I find it especially disappointing when he acts in such a juvenile manner.

 

[lewpac]

Alright, maybe I'll give you "the PGA handles things in-house" and that's why we haven't heard anything about their reaction to Tiger Woods untenable behavior. I doubt it's true, but let's give you that for the sake of argument.

Now lets talk about sponsership. What about Buick and Nike, amongst dozens of others who have hitched their wagon to the Tiger Woods ride? If Tigers schtick were as offensive and juvenile and childish and deamining as you assert it is.......................why aren't are all the sponsers running for the hills? In fact, what about all the sponsers/suiters waiting in line for his signature?

THAT, my friend, is where the REAL rubber meets the road. The MONEY. 100% of the time, if an athlete were HALF as bad an actor as your making Tiger out to be, the FIRST thing that's gone is sponsership and sponsers money.

Don't believe it? Talk to Kobe and T.O., Mike Vick or Pete Rose. Or dozens of other pro athletes who've lost sponsers due to untoward behavior. You've been making your case for days now that, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that Tiger Woods is embarassing the sport and degrading the sport due to his hissy-fits. But, the bajillion dollar endorsements remain.

And, if Nike or Buick ever decides to allow the contract with Tiger to expire, it would be a matter of SECONDS before another Fortune 500 company would be salivating and begging Tiger to sign with them.

Explain that for us...............

 

[Rogah]

Alright, maybe I'll give you "the PGA handles things in-house" and that's why we haven't heard anything about their reaction to Tiger Woods untenable behavior. I doubt it's true, but let's give you that for the sake of argument.

Now lets talk about sponsership. What about Buick and Nike, amongst dozens of others who have hitched their wagon to the Tiger Woods ride? If Tigers schtick were as offensive and juvenile and childish and deamining as you assert it is.......................why aren't are all the sponsers running for the hills? In fact, what about all the sponsers/suiters waiting in line for his signature?

Yeah... sure... because sponsors really care about the moral character of thier celebrity spokespeople... didn't Nike just have a major ad campaign featuring an accused rapist who only got the charges dropped when he settled out of court? Yeah... those sponsor really care about the moral character of their spokesmen...

THAT, my friend, is where the REAL rubber meets the road. The MONEY. 100% of the time, if an athlete were HALF as bad an actor as your making Tiger out to be, the FIRST thing that's gone is sponsership and sponsers money.

Dude, you're reading stuff into my posts that just aren't there. I am not calling Tiger Woods the scum of humanity. I never referred to his actions as "offensive and juvenile and childish and deamining." I did use the term juvenile, but overall I think he's a great guy. I just wish he would demonstrate a little less unsportsmanlike behavior out on the course, that's all.

Don't believe it? Talk to Kobe and T.O., Mike Vick or Pete Rose.

Kobe and T.O. have sponsors, so that blows that theory out of the water. Pete Rose and Mike Vick engaged in activites that went quite a bit beyond unsportsmanlike activity. They actually each spent some pretty serious time in jail. So yeah, go to jail and you'll lose sponsors.

Or dozens of other pro athletes who've lost sponsers due to untoward behavior. You've been making your case for days now that, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that Tiger Woods is embarassing the sport and degrading the sport due to his hissy-fits. But, the bajillion dollar endorsements remain.

Dude, you are just making stuff up here. That is a complete misrepresentation of everything I have said - which further demonstrates the bankrupcy of your own contentions.

And, if Nike or Buick ever decides to allow the contract with Tiger to expire, it would be a matter of SECONDS before another Fortune 500 company would be salivating and begging Tiger to sign with them.

Explain that for us...............

Do you, like, even follow sports? I seriously don't think you do. No sponsor on the planet is going to drop a guy for incidents of unsportsmanlike conduct, and that's all I have said Tiger Woods does. I never said he was "embarrassing and degrading the sport" as you have claimed I did.

Here's what you're doing: You're putting words in my mouth and then responding to the things you're pretending I've said, but not responding to the things I've actually said. You're pretending I've made the most heinous of allegations and then saying how inappropriate my remarks are. If you want to establish yourself as someone capable of reasoned debate, you're going to have to stop putting words in my mouth.

Congratulations... your flying off the handle in this thread has actually made Silverbear seem calm and reasonable by comparison.

 

[lewpac]

Yeah... sure... because sponsors really care about the moral character of thier celebrity spokespeople... didn't Nike just have a major ad campaign featuring an accused rapist who only got the charges dropped when he settled out of court? Yeah... those sponsor really care about the moral character of their spokesmen...
Dude, you're reading stuff into my posts that just aren't there. I am not calling Tiger Woods the scum of humanity. I never referred to his actions as "offensive and juvenile and childish and deamining." I did use the term juvenile, but overall I think he's a great guy. I just wish he would demonstrate a little less unsportsmanlike behavior out on the course, that's all.
Kobe and T.O. have sponsors, so that blows that theory out of the water. Pete Rose and Mike Vick engaged in activites that went quite a bit beyond unsportsmanlike activity. They actually each spent some pretty serious time in jail. So yeah, go to jail and you'll lose sponsors.
Dude, you are just making stuff up here. That is a complete misrepresentation of everything I have said - which further demonstrates the bankrupcy of your own contentions.
Do you, like, even follow sports? I seriously don't think you do. No sponsor on the planet is going to drop a guy for incidents of unsportsmanlike conduct, and that's all I have said Tiger Woods does. I never said he was "embarrassing and degrading the sport" as you have claimed I did.

Here's what you're doing: You're putting words in my mouth and then responding to the things you're pretending I've said, but not responding to the things I've actually said. You're pretending I've made the most heinous of allegations and then saying how inappropriate my remarks are. If you want to establish yourself as someone capable of reasoned debate, you're going to have to stop putting words in my mouth.

Congratulations... your flying off the handle in this thread has actually made Silverbear seem calm and reasonable by comparison.

Nah. You're full of ****. You're on some campaign and vendetta trying to "get" Tiger Woods. And every time you get check-mated, you ramble on incoherently with platitudes and illogical bull-****. When you're cornered, all we get is "I never said this, I never said that". THEN, you admit you said "juvenile".

You're losing it man. In poker, you're whats called "pot commited". You're in the hand now, and don't know how to get out, so you keep pushing chips into a losing hand.

Like I said earlier...........get another hobby.

 

[Rogah]

Nah. You're full of ****. You're on some campaign and vendetta trying to "get" Tiger Woods. And every time you get check-mated, you ramble on incoherently with platitudes and illogical bull-****. When you're cornered, all we get is "I never said this, I never said that". THEN, you admit you said "juvenile".

You're losing it man. In poker, you're whats called "pot commited". You're in the hand now, and don't know how to get out, so you keep pushing chips into a losing hand.

Like I said earlier...........get another hobby.

OK, it's clear you have no desire to discuss the issue in a rational, intelligent manner. You'd rather just put words in my mouth, invent things I've never said and engage in ad hominem.

It's hilarious how you invent things I never said, respond to the things you're pretending I've said, then pat yourself on the back for how clever you are. No wonder you get called out so frequently on the political forum.

 

[Doomsday101]

Absolutely. But what cannot be debated is the simple fact that different sports have different ideas of what they require in good sportsmanship. You'll never see Kobe Bryant call a foul against himself, not will you ever see an offensive lineman go up to the referee and say "Sir, I was holding on that last play... please penalize my team 10 yards.."

But in golf, the players are expected to call fouls on themselves if appropriate. So all these attempts to justify Tiger's actions by bringing up other players from other sports are just irrelevant.

Not in my opinion. You have yours I do not agree. Tiger is one of the best things to happen to the PGA and if this writer does not like that Tiger is a fierce competitor that is his problem and sorry you are wrong because it is not football or basketball does not make one right and the other wrong these athletes emotion is what it is and it is a big part of why they are able to push themselves beyond others.

Tiger is not going to change who he is and his intensity is what has made him one of the greatest to play the game and those of us who do watch the PGA on a regular basis and see Tiger behavior do not see much different than many others on the tour and have a better clue than you who said you don't watch it much, yet you seem to know what is the appropriate behavior for golf and it's players. That is pretty funny

 

[Rogah]

Not in my opinion. You have yours I do not agree. Tiger is one of the best things to happen to the PGA and if this writer does not like that Tiger is a fierce competitor that is his problem and sorry you are wrong because it is not football or basketball does not make one right and the other wrong these athletes emotion is what it is and it is a big part of why they are able to push themselves beyond others.

Oh, I'll take your statement one step further. To me he's not "one of the best things to happen to the PGA" - he is the best thing to happen to the PGA in the history of that sport.

But that does not make him above criticism, does it?

Tiger is not going to change who he is and his intensity is what has made him one of the greatest to play the game and those of us who do watch the PGA on a regular basis and see Tiger behavior do not see much different than many others on the tour and have a better clue than you who said you don't watch it much, yet you seem to know what is the appropriate behavior for golf and it's players. That is pretty funny

I'm just calls 'em as I sees 'em. Maybe every week during smaller tournaments you have big-name players regularly having temper tantrums on the course. But I am just saying that when it comes to majors, I don't see any sort of behavior from other players that approaches what Tiger does on a regular basis. I didn't hear any f-bombs when Padraig shot an 8 on the par 3 and I didn't hear any g-d it when Tom Watson choked on 18 at the British Open.

 

[Doomsday101]

Oh, I'll take your statement one step further. To me he's not "one of the best things to happen to the PGA" - he is the best thing to happen to the PGA in the history of that sport.

But that does not make him above criticism, does it?
I'm just calls 'em as I sees 'em. Maybe every week during smaller tournaments you have big-name players regularly having temper tantrums on the course. But I am just saying that when it comes to majors, I don't see any sort of behavior from other players that approaches what Tiger does on a regular basis. I didn't hear any f-bombs when Padraig shot an 8 on the par 3 and I didn't hear any g-d it when Tom Watson choked on 18 at the British Open.

You entitled to you opinion I don't agree with it and watch a hell of alot more golf even before Tiger was ever a part of the PGA. Do all players get mad like Tiger no but then these are people with their own emotion we are all different not a bunch a pre programed robots. Tiger he who he is and he does a lot for the sport and a lot for the young people of America with his programs he is actively involved in. He is not running for sainthood he is who he is warts and all and if that does not live up to some people standards then that is their problem