Roster building philosophy

[FanofJerry]

There is a point with every QB (even the best QB in the league) that his cap number becomes such an albatross that you can’t win with that player. Overpaying a decent QB “great” money keeps you relevant but impairs your ability to win a SB.

At some point wise organizations will stop trying to find the best QB in the league and put together a team that can compete for SBs without having the best QB in the league.

I agree with you post.

Only issue is...its going to be hard to get QB's to want to play for your Org if the Org wants to low-ball the toughest position in sports.

Add to that...I dont think the league is moving towards power running games. Too many players will get hurt trying to tackle Derrick Henry's every play. The league knows this. Players are too big and fast now...injuries will pile up. Plus...the League thinks passing is better for the product. So...your guy is going to have to be able to play at a decent level passing wise in todays NFL. The league is incentivizing passing.

Since everyone touts Free Markets but hates QB market...only way I can see this working out is if the League and Owners start a compensation pool for QB's. Cap QB pay at18% and let a League committee determine the bonuses for QB's based on individual play...not team stats...and have extra bonuses for good playoff performances.

 

[TequilaCowboy]

Tells you how stupid Jerry's "All in" remark was at this point in time. You get all in when you have the core of your talent on their rookie contracts and see a window of opportunity to sign more talent to the squad to get a crack at the big one. You can't go "All in" when you have Dak, CD and Micah looking to be the highest paid players at their position in the NFL. This FO is a perfect example of being in over their heads and either not realizing it, or too egotistical to care.

 

[FanofJerry]

Tells you how stupid Jerry's "All in" remark was at this point in time. You get all in when you have the core of your talent on their rookie contracts and see a window of opportunity to sign more talent to the squad to get a crack at the big one. You can't go "All in" when you have Dak, CD and Micah looking to be the highest paid players at their position in the NFL. This FO is a perfect example of being in over their heads and either not realizing it, or too egotistical to care.

Could the "all in" apply to the Jones being willing to rebuild if Dak wont take their deal?

Dak, CD, Micah, Diggs - historically speaking on big talents - seems like you could gather a lot of draft capital. No need to over speculate with posts about how the league isnt doing Hershal Walker deals anymore. I am aware that FO's are sharper now a days. I am also aware they will pay for talent if their team only has a few holes. My opinion is that the Micah trade haul proposals on here are far lower than what Dallas would actually get. A First and Second is crazy low for Micah...and some think that is reasonable.

Anyway...Ceedee and Micah should get a few FRP's...Dak should get 2 FRP's(assuming the flaws discussed here are over exaggerated) and Diggs should get at least a high SRP.

 

[KingCorcoran]

This is a big part of the problem, it allows owners/GM's to pay more than they should for a player.
It makes the cap bigger than it should be for that year and some future years,then it all comes due,so then they extend etc again to
push some other money down the road and it is endless.

They need to stop allowing cap to be manipulated.
If a team doesnt have the money, then they dont have the money! No borrowing from the future.

Another problem is if a guy is a starting qb for a team, his salary should be changed to minimum of 10 mil per year.
Dak had to play 4 years as starter for less than 1 mil per year.
Purdy is playing for less than 1 mil per year.

This isnt right , if they start more than 3 games per year at qb, the team should have to pay them at a rate of 10 mil per year.
The same could be true for guys who wind up starting and are low round or undrafted, their pay should go up if
they start on regular basis.

Purdy has helped his team get to 2 championship games, and makes less than 1 mil a year, so that is just not fair at all.
If he won sb last year then gets hurt game 1 this year, career ending injury. and he never made any money!
Teams will abuse some players if they can, and at same time way over pay for other players who arent doing that well.

The salary cap rules are negotiated with the players’ union, the NFLPA. The players have a stake in the salary cap. If the owners were in sole control of it things would be dramatically different. You don’t like the rules players and owners agreed upon I doubt they care.

 

[kskboys]

I agree with you post.

Only issue is...its going to be hard to get QB's to want to play for your Org if the Org wants to low-ball the toughest position in sports.

Add to that...I dont think the league is moving towards power running games. Too many players will get hurt trying to tackle Derrick Henry's every play. The league knows this. Players are too big and fast now...injuries will pile up. Plus...the League thinks passing is better for the product. So...your guy is going to have to be able to play at a decent level passing wise in todays NFL. The league is incentivizing passing.

Since everyone touts Free Markets but hates QB market...only way I can see this working out is if the League and Owners start a compensation pool for QB's. Cap QB pay at18% and let a League committee determine the bonuses for QB's based on individual play...not team stats...and have extra bonuses for good playoff performances.

Do they? There can be no free market if there is a salary cap. And the league would eventually lose money if there wasn't a salary cap.

 

[kskboys]

Tells you how stupid Jerry's "All in" remark was at this point in time. You get all in when you have the core of your talent on their rookie contracts and see a window of opportunity to sign more talent to the squad to get a crack at the big one. You can't go "All in" when you have Dak, CD and Micah looking to be the highest paid players at their position in the NFL. This FO is a perfect example of being in over their heads and either not realizing it, or too egotistical to care.

Replace egotistical w/ DUMB and I'll agree!!!!!

 

[FanofJerry]

Do they? There can be no free market if there is a salary cap. And the league would eventually lose money if there wasn't a salary cap.

Youre right...about a cap being a restriction so its not fundamentally free.

I guess the way to look at my post is if they were adding more restrictions.

 

[Nova]

I applaud the outline

Our main problem is that we cannot inject enough talent into the roster to support a good but not elite QB with the current philosophy.

If we're averse to FA splashes, then the only option is to stockpile draft picks and create a window with an abundance of young, inexpensive talent.

That means we have to be willing to part ways with players before their contract is up in order to get a decent return on the player.

Easier said than done-- some guys like Armstrong are never going to fetch more than their comp pick. If they did, that wouldn't be a hard decision.

But guys like Diggs? Those are the guys we have to be okay with saying goodbye to for a 1st or even 2nd round pick.

 

[fivetwos]

I applaud the outline

Our main problem is that we cannot inject enough talent into the roster to support a good but not elite QB with the current philosophy.

If we're averse to FA splashes, then the only option is to stockpile draft picks and create a window with an abundance of young, inexpensive talent.

That means we have to be willing to part ways with players before their contract is up in order to get a decent return on the player.

Easier said than done-- some guys like Armstrong are never going to fetch more than their comp pick. If they did, that wouldn't be a hard decision.

But guys like Diggs? Those are the guys we have to be okay with saying goodbye to for a 1st or even 2nd round pick.

When was the last time they traded a player for anything of significance?

Once they find a jersey selling star, they don’t let him go.

Teams like SF, Phi, and KC are aggressive in moving high picks and top players to see their plan through. And it’s not about SB wins only, it’s about being reasonably close come January. Most of the teams that are typically there in the end don’t sign zero free agents, and/or expect 5th round picks to fill an immediate need.

Jerry and his kid worry about getting their “marketable stars” signed. It’s the coaches fault that it doesn’t add up on the field.

I just hope that fans stop buying their crap before all that much longer.

 

[Nova]

When was the last time they traded a player for anything of significance?

Once they find a jersey selling star, they don’t let him go.

Teams like SF, Phi, and KC are aggressive in moving high picks and top players to see their plan through. And it’s not about SB wins only, it’s about being reasonably close come January. Most of the teams that are typically there in the end don’t sign zero free agents, and/or expect 5th round picks to fill an immediate need.

Jerry and his kid worry about getting their “marketable stars” signed. It’s the coaches fault that it doesn’t add up on the field.

I just hope that fans stop buying their crap before all that much longer.

I feel the same way. I'm just spelling out what they should do

 

[CowboyFrog]

I think you do that this time. Last time he was doing good things, young and just played 4 years for cheap.

If he is being unreasonable I think you move on. Im Pro-Dak.

If the coaches, scouts, consultants say he isnt an issue and the flaws are overblown...I offer Dak to sign a long term deal at 55M that allows the FO to do math tricks easier to better the team for a few years. If Dak says no to 55M, longer years and no NTC...then I probably look elsewhere.

you HAVE to do it this way, the problem is this FO has pretty much not planned on how to move forward when he says no..unless its Trey Lance, to some thats a great plan B to others like me it seems to be another overpay waiting to happen especially since he is a FA next year also.

 

[Chasing6]

I agree with you post.

Only issue is...its going to be hard to get QB's to want to play for your Org if the Org wants to low-ball the toughest position in sports.

Add to that...I dont think the league is moving towards power running games. Too many players will get hurt trying to tackle Derrick Henry's every play. The league knows this. Players are too big and fast now...injuries will pile up. Plus...the League thinks passing is better for the product. So...your guy is going to have to be able to play at a decent level passing wise in todays NFL. The league is incentivizing passing.

Since everyone touts Free Markets but hates QB market...only way I can see this working out is if the League and Owners start a compensation pool for QB's. Cap QB pay at18% and let a League committee determine the bonuses for QB's based on individual play...not team stats...and have extra bonuses for good playoff performances.

That is exactly why we need to do it.

If every defense is designed to stop a speed running game, who will they stop a power running game?

 

[plasticman]

Deadlines make deals - BAD DEALS

Contracts should be offered a year early at a fair price and if the player won’t sign he should be traded while he has value

QB contracts and the it’s his turn belief

This is ridiculous. So little consideration is given to the quality of the supporting cast being a factor in the QB’s stats and success. We hear on and on about the a purgatory we had with Hutchinson, Stoerner, Magee and all the rest. The supporting cast was bad. Those guys never had a chance. The same can be said for the Browns whiffing on several top QB picks. What if Brock Purdy didn’t play for the 49ers roster? What if he played for a lesser team. Would he have been an instant success. Same for Dak during his rookie year. If you have a Mahomes you pay him what he is worth. If you have a Dak you pay him far less not more when it’s “his turn”. You also never agree to a no trade clause. Dak should have been traded years ago after being offered and refusing a fair contract.

There are multiple ways to win super bowls. If you have a Mahomes or Brady you can win with a little less talent in the supporting cast. If you have a good but not great QB. You need to surround him with superior talent and you can’t do that if you are paying him like a Mahomes or Brady or worse like the it’s my turn to set the market QB.

Keep the roster young by trading away vets that won’t accept a fair contract and when the occasional difference making free agent is available offer him what he is worth. If an Aaron Donald type comes along have the cap space to add the player. Don’t try to build a roster of comp picks.

The first 3 rounds are where most of the good players are. Try to have as many of those picks as you can.

The goal is to have as many exceptional players on your roster as possible. You achieve that by not overpaying your own. Trading those that want more than they are worth. Offer contracts earlier when they are more affordable. Put a premium in the first 3 rounds of the draft by trading later round draft picks for premium picks and grabbing the occasional difference making free agent when you have the chance.

I don't think the goal is to have as many exceptional players as possible. I think the goal is to have those type of players that make a team exceptional. These days there seem to be less emphasis on teamwork and improvement through competition. The entire idea of teamwork is that they can accomplish more together than they could if you combined what they did individually.

It's important to remember that we have free agency today because that is what players fought for. They sometimes forget that it is a double edge sword. No loyalty exists and GM's need a cold-blooded unemotional evaluation of a player's value. This should be based only on their perceived productivity during the term of their next contract. Past achievements and fan popularity should not be factors in determining the status of player contracts. Contract extensions are not rewards.

Contract extensions can potentially hurt the team's future in the same way that trading draft picks do. When you end up paying guys that are no longer on the team (dead money) then you are subtracting resources from future seasons.

 

[FanofJerry]

That is exactly why we need to do it.

If every defense is designed to stop a speed running game, who will they stop a power running game?

Not trying to be rude...genuinely...your post is not registering with me. Can you post again a different way that might register with me?

That is exactly why they need to do what? Low ball QB's? Move to power running game?

 

[plasticman]

That is exactly why we need to do it.

If every defense is designed to stop a speed running game, who will they stop a power running game?

That's exactly what the Cowboys did in 2014 and 2016. In both cases the number of passing plays were reduced and they constantly pounded the defense with running plays.

However, it worked because of the O-line that they had. That was a trio of healthy, young, 1st round draft picks. Two of them are gone and the 3rd is possibly in his last season.

The strong power running game was so effective that a lot of pressure was taken off the shoulders of the QB's. In both seasons, the QB's had their best seasons. Romo was ranked #1 that season and Dak had an historic rookie season.

It did seem as though the league was taken by surprise. They were already evolving into faster, but smaller DE's and pass rushing DT's. They were no match for the interior push of Martin and Fredericks.