RT and C biggest problems on OL.

[Clove]

Maybe some people actually know what they're talking about. I know, I should just jump on the latest scapegoat and ramble on aimlessly for months with no idea what I'm talking about.



Look, I'm not privvy to the linemen's actual assignment, but anyone with a basic understanding of line play can make an educated guess and Johnson has graded out higher (by me) than any other lineman over the games I've done so far. (I'll do a play by play analysis if you really want it) Does that mean he's "good", heck no, barely even "average", but if you listen to the Einsteins here you'd think he was the Anti-Christ and all faults with the offense can be traced to him.

I don't know what you're watching, but this guy gets man handled unless he's getting help from the guards.

 

[Chuck 54]

Maybe some people actually know what they're talking about. I know, I should just jump on the latest scapegoat and ramble on aimlessly for months with no idea what I'm talking about.



Look, I'm not privvy to the linemen's actual assignment, but anyone with a basic understanding of line play can make an educated guess and Johnson has graded out higher (by me) than any other lineman over the games I've done so far. (I'll do a play by play analysis if you really want it) Does that mean he's "good", heck no, barely even "average", but if you listen to the Einsteins here you'd think he was the Anti-Christ and all faults with the offense can be traced to him.

This is what I'll tell you for a fact Stanley....Johnson's man gets into the backfield on a consistant basis...he's not always making the tackle, but he is almost always taking away any cutback lane or option for the RB to make something happen other than run straight at the designed hole, if he's fast enough to get there ahead of the pursuit.

 

[Sarge]

Maybe some people actually know what they're talking about. I know, I should just jump on the latest scapegoat and ramble on aimlessly for months with no idea what I'm talking about.



Look, I'm not privvy to the linemen's actual assignment, but anyone with a basic understanding of line play can make an educated guess and Johnson has graded out higher (by me) than any other lineman over the games I've done so far. (I'll do a play by play analysis if you really want it) Does that mean he's "good", heck no, barely even "average", but if you listen to the Einsteins here you'd think he was the Anti-Christ and all faults with the offense can be traced to him.

You just made my point for me Stanley, thank you.

I've said all along Johnson is "below average", you say 'barely even average." Close enough. Below average sucks in my book. A below average anchor isn't going to get you where you need to be.

Just because Al Johnson doesn't suck as bad as Rivera, or suck as bad as Pettiti (a rookie), or suck as bad as Tucker, doesn't mean he doesn't suck.

We disagree, big deal.

 

[Sarge]

This is what I'll tell you for a fact Stanley....Johnson's man gets into the backfield on a consistant basis...he's not always making the tackle, but he is almost always taking away any cutback lane or option for the RB to make something happen other than run straight at the designed hole, if he's fast enough to get there ahead of the pursuit.

Exactly................

 

[StanleySpadowski]

You just made my point for me Stanley, thank you.

I've said all along Johnson is "below average", you say 'barely even average." Close enough. Below average sucks in my book. A below average anchor isn't going to get you where you need to be.

Just because Al Johnson doesn't suck as bad as Rivera, or suck as bad as Pettiti (a rookie), or suck as bad as Tucker, doesn't mean he doesn't suck.

We disagree, big deal.

I notice you left out the two biggest offenders, Allen and Witten.

Why would you want to use limited resources be it a draft pick or cap space replacing someone who clearly isn't "THE" problem?

 

[Sarge]

I notice you left out the two biggest offenders, Allen and Witten.

Why would you want to use limited resources be it a draft pick or cap space replacing someone who clearly isn't "THE" problem?

Perhaps you could point to me where I said Al Johnson is the number one priority that needs to be addressed on the OL.

Perhaps you can point out to me where I said Al Johnson is THE problem.

He is PART of the problem and ONCE AGAIN, there are probems ALL ALONG the OL.

I'll say it one last time Stanley, the fact that the rest of the OL sucks, doesn't excuse Al Johnson from sucking.

I don't know why you think I am singling out Al Johnson. I'm not. They all played poorly.

INCLUDING Al Johnson.

I really have to wonder what you have been watching all year.

 

[Tex]

gee how did J. Jones rack up the numbers he did running as a rookie with the same center he had this year if Al Johnson is the big reason we can't run block this year?

Our line seemed to be able to run block last year ok when JJ came back. With the same center. Except he didnt have the same tackles or right guard. So maybe just maybe that had a teeny bit to do with the problems.

A rookie at RT. A new LT that wasnt used to playing LT and a new RG.

Tex

 

[Chuck 54]

gee how did J. Jones rack up the numbers he did running as a rookie with the same center he had this year if Al Johnson is the big reason we can't run block this year?

Our line seemed to be able to run block last year ok when JJ came back. With the same center. Except he didnt have the same tackles or right guard. So maybe just maybe that had a teeny bit to do with the problems.

A rookie at RT. A new LT that wasnt used to playing LT and a new RG.

Tex

If Center wasn't a major problem this year, then why keep replacing him with Gurode who is known to be a little slow on his mental game.

 

[StanleySpadowski]

If Center wasn't a major problem this year, then why keep replacing him with Gurode who is known to be a little slow on his mental game.

That's simple, the OL as a whole was struggling and had been since day one of camp. It got much worse when Rogers flamed out. Instead of Parcells admitting his mistake in promoting a TE coach, he made the only switch possible to shake things up.

We saw that Tucker wasn't an adequate replacement at OT so the only other option was Gurode on the interior. Allen would have fumed if he was replaced, they just spent a ludicrous amount on Rivera so Johnson was the only viable option to see the pine occasionally.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I notice you left out the two biggest offenders, Allen and Witten.

Why would you want to use limited resources be it a draft pick or cap space replacing someone who clearly isn't "THE" problem?

Bro your wasting your time. These guys remember him getting pushed around a couple of times in week 1 and made up their mind. They parrot stuff back and forth to each other so long that it becomes gospel.

Johnson is inconsistent. Hopefully hell get it a la James on defense.

 

[Big Country]

same with rivera. to me he was the main liability on the o-line

His penalty a game didn't help the cause much either... at the WORST possible time of the game to boot!!! That bumvent better have one helluva off-season and be ready next year.

 

[StanleySpadowski]

His penalty a game didn't help the cause much either... at the WORST possible time of the game to boot!!! That bumvent better have one helluva off-season and be ready next year.

I'll give Rivera a pass on the holding penalties. Things he did to keep a defender off the Second Coming may have been ok in Green Bay but don't fly with officials when he's wearing blue.

 

[ratpower]

Let's say Tucker improves and holds the fort till Adams returns, remembering that Tucker has had no experience at LT until being moved there late this year...Let's also assume Adams comes back strong, not a liability all next year.

Let's assume Larry Allen stays at his current level at least and that Rivera plays better next year having had a season to recover from his back problem and a new system and team.

Clearly, IN pass protection, RT is our biggest problem...Pettitti doesn't have the athletic ability or the technique yet...maybe he gets better in time, but only fools would count on him at RT next season...we desperately need to bring in a veteran RT in FA.

However, having watched him more closely in recent weeks, I have no doubt that the biggest problem with our running game is our Center. Johnson needs to be replaced...period. He is the worst run blocker on our OL...He cannot reach a DT without being driven into the running lane. From what I've seen, we actually block pretty well at the point of attack, but our RB either gets pulled down from behind by someone overpowering Johnson in the middle or our RB has no cutback lane because Johnson almost never seals anyone off without them getting into our backfield.

I know we're all concerned with the pass protection and our OTs...that's a given, but I'm convinced we won't significantly improve our running game until we bring in a better Center. Gurode can be that better center, but clearly he still doesn't have the brains or recognition to make the correct line calls. The fumble we gave up against Washington to start the 2nd half wasn't completely poor blocking by him, but as Parcells said, he made the wrong line call and then couldn't make the block.

I'd love to bring in a legit Center if possible, a veteran RT, and leave Gurode as an option at Guard.

Good analysis...although Rivera may be all used up if his neck/back continue to bother him.