Salary cap and CBA

bandfan

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They did the same thing last year. First week of FA they were on a family vacation. You can tell how seriously they take the job. Imagine another GM being on vacation first week of FA.
They're called cell phones, try one out......
 

BatteryPowered

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In my opinion, only an idiot would make deals based on the possibility the cap structure will change. The NFLPA is fairly weak. I also don't see them going to war over drug testing. Do you really think every base salary player is going to give up their salary...especially since most will only be in the league for 2, maybe 3 years...so a rich vet can do drugs whenever he wants?
 

xwalker

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It really doesn’t take an in-depth look into the cap to figure it out. We have very little on the books for 2020...$125M in projected cap space. We couldn’t use all of that cap space on our own players even if we let Jerry negotiate after a Johnny Walker bender.

Less than 5 years ago Jaxonville had the most cap space of any team.

Now in 2019 they just cut multiple very good players due to being out of cap space.
 

tm1119

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Less than 5 years ago Jaxonville had the most cap space of any team.

Now in 2019 they just cut multiple very good players due to being out of cap space.

When did I advocate spending as much $ as the Jags did? Show that to me because I’d love to see it.
 

waldoputty

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No, the league will not allow teams to ignore the "cap calculations". The Cowboys and Skins tried that and got huge penalties during the last lock-out.

if there is a holdout and no season, the players are not paid and cap is irrelevant for the year.
 

waldoputty

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It really doesn’t take an in-depth look into the cap to figure it out. We have very little on the books for 2020...$125M in projected cap space. We couldn’t use all of that cap space on our own players even if we let Jerry negotiate after a Johnny Walker bender.

that is incorrect.
they will need to manage the cap especially if they are trying to prevent restructuring escalations.

for 2020 year, here are players that need extensions.
player ------- estimate of avg contract $ per year
dak-------------25
zeke ----------15
dlaw------------20
cooper---------15
bjones---------15
la'el-------------10
jaylon-----------15
for 2020, we are up to $115m/yr of new contracts not counting draft picks, free agents, etc.
 

tm1119

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that is incorrect.
they will need to manage the cap especially if they are trying to prevent restructuring escalations.

for 2020 year, here are players that need extensions.
player ------- estimate of avg contract $ per year
dak-------------25
zeke ----------15
dlaw------------20
cooper---------15
bjones---------15
la'el-------------10
jaylon-----------15
for 2020, we are up to $115m not counting draft picks, free agents, etc.

You’re mixing up average annual salary with cap hit. All of those #’s are way high for what the actual cap hit will be in 2020.
 

waldoputty

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You’re mixing up average annual salary with cap hit. All of those #’s are way high for what the actual cap hit will be in 2020.

note my 2nd sentence "they will need to manage the cap especially if they are trying to prevent restructuring escalations."
 

tm1119

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note my 2nd sentence "they will need to manage the cap especially if they are trying to prevent restructuring escalations."

? You’ll have to explain what you mean by that.

But regardless, even if those very high cap hits were to be true there’s still plenty of room.
That $125M in cap space includes:
Tyrone Crawford making $9M- shouldn’t happen
And also includes Tyron, Martin and Martin making a combined $49. That is easily rectifiable with an extension, or possibly even a cut.

And for the record, I’m not advocating a massive free agent haul. I think we can easily fit in 2 guys in the $8-12M range per year...pretty damn reasonable and not hard to pull off if you ask me
 

waldoputty

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? You’ll have to explain what you mean by that.

But regardless, even if those very high cap hits were to be true there’s still plenty of room.
That $125M in cap space includes:
Tyrone Crawford making $9M- shouldn’t happen
And also includes Tyron, Martin and Martin making a combined $49. That is easily rectifiable with an extension, or possibly even a cut.

And for the record, I’m not advocating a massive free agent haul. I think we can easily fit in 2 guys in the $8-12M range per year...pretty damn reasonable and not hard to pull off if you ask me


actually ur position and mine r not that far apart, though the reasoning is different.
u cannot just say the 1st year of a multi year contract is substantially less than the remaining years and then discount those contracts.
that is because stephen is trying to get around the need to restructure ((push current year salary minus minimum salary into a restructuring bonus to be divided into the remaining years)
u have to take into consideration who is coming up in 2021 from the class of 2017 - cb, s (ignoring taco...)
u cannot assume any of tsmith, martin and tfred will be cut as tfred seems to be recovered and tsmith improved his play and is a good value for his contract.

stephen is a bean counter that wants a conservative financial strategy.
he does not like the multi year contracts with a small 1st year and then the constant restructuring every year.
this is what i mean by taking into account the likely cba changes to maximize the amount of money available within reason.
otherwise, stephen's modus operandi will result in what you are seeing now.
and it will be liked this until basically all the core players are locked up over next 2 years and wasting their prime.

i understand cowboys were punished for pushing salaries into uncapped year.
i am not advocating that.
however, that does not mean we should not take account of that year in the regular course of doing business for multi year contract restructuring.
what cowboys and Commanders did in 2010 were described by espn:
"According to sources, the Cowboys and Commanders took immediate cap hits during the 2010 season that normally would have been spread out over the length of the contracts, giving them an advantage that other NFL owners found unfair."
 

xwalker

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if there is a holdout and no season, the players are not paid and cap is irrelevant for the year.
Teams have to operate as if the cap is still in place because as soon as the CBA agreement is finished the cap will be turned back on.

Teams will not know how long the holdout/lockout will last. It could be 1 week or all season.

The league didn't make exceptions last time and likely won't again.

The cap will remain part of the CBA. Both sides want assurances that are provided by the cap because the cap has BOTH minimum and maximum spend limits.

A non-capped system might sound good for the players but only a few teams would spend big while some other teams would spend as little as possible.

When Jerry bought the Cowboys, teams like the Bengals and Cardinals were extremely cheap but got the same amount from the TV contracts as all other teams. The popularity of the NFL was driven by the bigger spending teams but the cheap teams were able to get attendance due to the overall popularity of the sport.

The percentage of revenue is unlikely to be a big debate:

The issues will be:
1. What is included in total revenue.

Example: Teams use a company not owned by the team for concessions. The team owner as an individual can be a part owner of the concession company without that revenue going to the players. Parking revenue and many other revenue streams are in the gray area.

2. Personal conduct policy (drugs, domestic violence, etc.). Players likely want an independent entity to handle these issues instead of Goodell. Many people believe the NFL wanted drug testing in order to use it as a negotiating chip at the next CBA. Owners would be happy to give in on drug testing if it meant they get more financial concessions from the players.

3. Rules of the game and how infractions are handled (fines for late hits, etc.). Players likely want an independent entity to handle these issues instead of Goodell.

4. Issues like the Franchise Tag. The players hate it and will definitely try to eliminate using it twice on the same player.

5. An 18 game season will be discussed. Owners will present it as more money for everyone. The players see it as more wear and tear on them.

6. Roster sizes might be discussed, especially if they consider an 18 game season. Roster size is a dual-edge sword for the players. The same revenue gets split up among more players if the roster size is increased but the players play more snaps with a smaller roster size.

Summary:
As I said before, many players don't prepare for a holdout and will run out of money quickly. Before his big contract, Dez was known to get loans in the off-season just to make it to his week 1 paycheck.

Hockey has had bigger strikes/holdouts/lockouts but those players tend to come from different backgrounds and are not as likely to spend all of their money during the off-season.
 

waldoputty

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Teams have to operate as if the cap is still in place because as soon as the CBA agreement is finished the cap will be turned back on.

Teams will not know how long the holdout/lockout will last. It could be 1 week or all season.

The league didn't make exceptions last time and likely won't again.

The cap will remain part of the CBA. Both sides want assurances that are provided by the cap because the cap has BOTH minimum and maximum spend limits.

A non-capped system might sound good for the players but only a few teams would spend big while some other teams would spend as little as possible.

When Jerry bought the Cowboys, teams like the Bengals and Cardinals were extremely cheap but got the same amount from the TV contracts as all other teams. The popularity of the NFL was driven by the bigger spending teams but the cheap teams were able to get attendance due to the overall popularity of the sport.

The percentage of revenue is unlikely to be a big debate:

The issues will be:
1. What is included in total revenue.

Example: Teams use a company not owned by the team for concessions. The team owner as an individual can be a part owner of the concession company without that revenue going to the players. Parking revenue and many other revenue streams are in the gray area.

2. Personal conduct policy (drugs, domestic violence, etc.). Players likely want an independent entity to handle these issues instead of Goodell. Many people believe the NFL wanted drug testing in order to use it as a negotiating chip at the next CBA. Owners would be happy to give in on drug testing if it meant they get more financial concessions from the players.

3. Rules of the game and how infractions are handled (fines for late hits, etc.). Players likely want an independent entity to handle these issues instead of Goodell.

4. Issues like the Franchise Tag. The players hate it and will definitely try to eliminate using it twice on the same player.

5. An 18 game season will be discussed. Owners will present it as more money for everyone. The players see it as more wear and tear on them.

6. Roster sizes might be discussed, especially if they consider an 18 game season. Roster size is a dual-edge sword for the players. The same revenue gets split up among more players if the roster size is increased but the players play more snaps with a smaller roster size.

Summary:
As I said before, many players don't prepare for a holdout and will run out of money quickly. Before his big contract, Dez was known to get loans in the off-season just to make it to his week 1 paycheck.

Hockey has had bigger strikes/holdouts/lockouts but those players tend to come from different backgrounds and are not as likely to spend all of their money during the off-season.

according to espn, this is what happened in 2010:
""According to sources, the Cowboys and Commanders took immediate cap hits during the 2010 season that normally would have been spread out over the length of the contracts, giving them an advantage that other NFL owners found unfair.""

i am not suggesting something so blatant.
for example, have contracts that are multi year and restructuring based - allowing more expenditure
then in the 'uncapped' year if it happens, simply do not restructure contracts that year because they dont have to.
 

xwalker

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according to espn, this is what happened in 2010:
""According to sources, the Cowboys and Commanders took immediate cap hits during the 2010 season that normally would have been spread out over the length of the contracts, giving them an advantage that other NFL owners found unfair.""

i am not suggesting something so blatant.
for example, have contracts that are multi year and restructuring based - allowing more expenditure
then in the 'uncapped' year if it happens, simply do not restructure contracts that year because they dont have to.
All money paid to players even during a lockout/holdout will be counted against the cap once the CBA deal is done.

A lockout will not provide either an advantage or disadvantage to any specific teams for moves they made prior to or during the lockout.
 

waldoputty

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All money paid to players even during a lockout/holdout will be counted against the cap once the CBA deal is done.

A lockout will not provide either an advantage or disadvantage to any specific teams for moves they made prior to or during the lockout.

ok, i will accept what you say here.

however, the point stands given what you have said.
the concession and similar loopholes will be negotiated to some degree, as the minimum cash expenditure game.
closing the loopholes to some degree will mean more cash.
more cash means increase in salaries and guaranteed salaries.
it is advantages to lock in the core players and high end free agents before the new cba than after.

so it is time to use those cap tricks now instead of trying to deleverage the team salary structure.
 

dallasdave

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the FO is using long term cap planning to justify their signings and lack of signings.

yes, dak, zeke, bjones, dlaw, jaylon and others will take a lot of cap space, even accounting for contracts that are back loaded using bonus to manipulate the cap.

that is all true, and only an indepth analysis of the cap will show how much they can spend etc.

however, anyone with any cap knowledge knows that they can EASILY push the major cap impact to after the 2020 season with restructures.

why is that important, that is because the CBA expires after the end of the 2020 season.

so the question is does anyone in the NFL think the cap structure is going to stay that way.

or do they KNOW that the union is itching for a fight.

or in another words, the 'keeping our own players' is a lame excuse because the union will not stand for another CBA like the last one.

the jones should be well aware of where things are going so they should adjust their cap structure accordingly.
Dallas never gets the big name Free agents, either cap hell or afraid to spend money-Dallas needs to figure out what to do to build a Championship Team in Dallas. Jones need to learn Puttyism.:yourock:
 

dallasdave

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that is incorrect.
they will need to manage the cap especially if they are trying to prevent restructuring escalations.

for 2020 year, here are players that need extensions.
player ------- estimate of avg contract $ per year
dak-------------25
zeke ----------15
dlaw------------20
cooper---------15
bjones---------15
la'el-------------10
jaylon-----------15
for 2020, we are up to $115m/yr of new contracts not counting draft picks, free agents, etc.
Nice work Putty, these are the main things the Jones need to take care of. :bow::bow::bow::bow::bow::bow:
 
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