Salary Cap / Trade Question

[Stash]

I've been mulling something over in terms of a running back trade and wanted to solicit the opinion of others who know the cap rules better than I do.

Here's my hypothetical situation:

The Cowboys are interested in RB Matt Forte, but not at his current $7 million salary.

Could the Bears and Cowboys agree to a split of that remaining money?

Could Dallas agree to terms with Forte on a new two year deal and have the money split into portions between the teams?

Specifically, Forte signs a new deal for two years $13 million, with a $3 million signing bonus before he's traded, and then the contract would have a provision for a second bonus ($4 million) at the start of the 2015 season (once the Cowboys have acquired him).

I know deals like this happen in other sports, but I'm not sure if they're possible in the NFL? I think Forte has more value under a lower 2015 cost.

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

I don't think that kind of thing can happen in the NFL...but I am not a cap guru by any means so who knows.

 

[conner01]

I think so if there is a new deal it could be very easy. Not sure why the Bears would want to do that but your base salary goes to the new team, your signing bonus stays with the old team

 

[erod]

I don't think that kind of thing can happen in the NFL...but I am not a cap guru by any means so who knows.

It can if Forte agrees to nix his deal for a new one. However, you're right that any cap hit from the prior deal stays with Chicago.

I can see both teams being interested in this, and definitely Forte. He's an excellent pass protector and receiver out of the backfield, as well as a good runner with a few years left in the tank.

 

[speedkilz88]

As long as Forte agrees to a new deal, the Cowboys are only affected by that deal. Bears would get hit with whatever he was paid in bonus already that wasn't accounted for in the salary cap yet. But Forte wouldn't get that 7 million salary that way. Bears couldn't pay it nor would they want to if they trade him.

 

[xwalker]

I've been mulling something over in terms of a running back trade and wanted to solicit the opinion of others who know the cap rules better than I do.

Here's my hypothetical situation:

The Cowboys are interested in RB Matt Forte, but not at his current $7 million salary.

Could the Bears and Cowboys agree to a split of that remaining money?

Could Dallas agree to terms with Forte on a new two year deal and have the money split into portions between the teams?

Specifically, Forte signs a new deal for two years $13 million, with a $3 million signing bonus before he's traded, and then the contract would have a provision for a second bonus ($4 million) at the start of the 2015 season (once the Cowboys have acquired him).

I know deals like this happen in other sports, but I'm not sure if they're possible in the NFL? I think Forte has more value under a lower 2015 cost.

If teams wanted to do that, they would just give him a signing bonus equal to the amount that the original team was going to pay.

In your scenario, the Bears would be paying 3M (the signing bonus). They Bears would also have 1M in dead-money from his current contract.

I'm surprised this does not happen more (or ever) because it would allow bad teams with large amounts of cap space to get back better draft picks then they would get by just a straight trade.

If the Bears could get a 4th for Forte in a straight up trade, then they could probably bump that to a 3rd if they were going to pick up a significant amount of the cost.

I don't see the Cowboy really wanting to trade a higher draft pick for cap relief at this point. Their cap is in good shape and the higher pick in theory will eventually result in cap savings because the player drafted with that pick (assuming 4th round pick or higher) should eventually replace a more expensive veteran.

 

[Bullflop]

I'm not too sure the Cowboys would be anxious to make a deal that would be too costly, even for one like Forte. I think they might be more inclined to look for someone young with a less prolific reputation and utilize him until the next draft affords them prospects of a highly reputable RB candidate in 2016.

 

[Stash]

If teams wanted to do that, they would just give him a signing bonus equal to the amount that the original team was going to pay.

In your scenario, the Bears would be paying 3M (the signing bonus). They Bears would also have 1M in dead-money from his current contract.

Right. The Bears would get a draft pick and $3 million in cap savings for the future while the Cowboys would get Forte for 2015 at $4 million with essentially a $6 million option for 2016. And the player gets his $7 million with another year's security (if Dallas keeps him) or the opportunity to showcase himself for the rest of the league behind arguably the best OL in football.

I'm surprised this does not happen more (or ever) because it would allow bad teams with large amounts of cap space to get back better draft picks then they would get by just a straight trade.

If the Bears could get a 4th for Forte in a straight up trade, then they could probably bump that to a 3rd if they were going to pick up a significant amount of the cost.

Exactly what I'm thinking, if the cap allows for it.

I don't see the Cowboy really wanting to trade a higher draft pick for cap relief at this point. Their cap is in good shape and the higher pick in theory will eventually result in cap savings because the player drafted with that pick (assuming 4th round pick or higher) should eventually replace a more expensive veteran.

Given the compensatory picks we should be getting, I would pull the trigger for that 3rd rounder if it meant saving $3 million against the cap. Just my opinion.

 

[Stash]

I'm not too sure the Cowboys would be anxious to make a deal that would be too costly, even for one like Forte. I think they might be more inclined to look for someone young with a less prolific reputation and utilize him until the next draft affords them prospects of a highly reputable RB candidate in 2016.

I think that's the beauty of it. You would have an option on Forte for 2016 while also drafting their RB of the future next year.

 

[adamknite]

I am pretty sure it's possible, not positive.

I've really liked Forte in the past, but I don't know if I would make that deal this year... but it's not a bad idea really. It does give us the option of another year but nothing too concrete for a veteran. So... meh, could be a lot worse things we could do.

 

[Bullflop]

I think that's the beauty of it. You would have an option on Forte for 2016 while also drafting their RB of the future next year.

Don't get me wrong, I'd be all for it if the FO were willing to meet Forte's and the Bears' demands -- just not confident their demands would prove palatable to the Cowboys FO. I'd be tickled if it actually happened, tho.

 

[jrumann59]

I thought a team already did that. The reason I believe that is because I was like, "hey thats an MLB type trade."

 

[jrumann59]

I thought a team already did that. The reason I believe that is because I was like, "hey thats an MLB type trade."

I was wrong it was in an article I read about when Peterson might be traded. If you go down to the part about dallas there is mention of how much of AD salary Minny would want to eat if they really wanted to trade him to dallas.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on...ou-need-to-know-about-trading-adrian-peterson

 

[xwalker]

Given the compensatory picks we should be getting, I would pull the trigger for that 3rd rounder if it meant saving $3 million against the cap. Just my opinion.

The problem with that is that it would be a 3rd round pick for 1 or 2 years of Forte.

It seems the options would be:
Option 1: 3rd round pick for Forte and 3M
Option 2: 4th round pick for Forte straight up

I think I would prefer option 2.

Regardless, it's a good theoretical discussion.

 

[darthseinfeld]

Is there any link to us and Forte ?

 

[Nightman]

Is there any link to us and Forte ?

only here

he made some noise about being unhappy with his deal, but no one is going to hive him more than the 8m he is getting

 

[Stash]

The problem with that is that it would be a 3rd round pick for 1 or 2 years of Forte.

It seems the options would be:
Option 1: 3rd round pick for Forte and 3M
Option 2: 4th round pick for Forte straight up

I think I would prefer option 2.

Regardless, it's a good theoretical discussion.

Thanks!

I think I prefer option 1 because of the projected compensatory picks, but I wouldn't complain about either one!

 

[Stash]

only here

he made some noise about being unhappy with his deal, but no one is going to hive him more than the 8m he is getting

I think his complaints were more about a lack of security rather than what he's due to make this year. He's likely not crazy about hitting the market at age 30.

 

[Nightman]

I think his complaints were more about a lack of security rather than what he's due to make this year. He's likely not crazy about hitting the market at age 30.

A 30 yr old RB might as well be a Betamax. They don't get any security. He should be thankful they are willing to go for the 8m.

 

[jazzcat22]

Thanks!

I think I prefer option 1 because of the projected compensatory picks, but I wouldn't complain about either one!

I don't mind a deal for Forte, only if it does not cost too high of a pick. You're question is a good one, a deal could be done, and appease all involved. It depends on how much of a cap hit the Bears would take compared what they may get in return.
But for Dallas, I would not base any trades because we get compensatory picks, as those are yet to be determined. It's like gambling, we can do this because we may get a 3rd, but it could also be a 6th.

If they trade a 3rd, thinking they will have a 3rd in a comp pick, and can still get a RB for the future. That pick may not be there. But I would hope they would use a 2nd for a sure pick to play now. But then why pay Forte a big contract if it came to that. Seems a high price to pay for a RB for a year or 2, which is why they did not pay Murray. But if averages 4 mil or so, not bad.

However the window is also now, and a sure RB now helps get to the goal this year and next. So could be very well worth a deal.