Saquon mania vs. Ezekiel facts

[aria]

HOW MANY TDS DOES ZEKE HAVE IN 17' AND 18'???

Got it, misread, apologies.

I specifically left TD’s out, even though Barkley smokes Zeke in that category as well, because there are too many variables with coaching and other personnel. But for the record, Zeke had 6, Barkley had 11 last year.

 

[keysersoze]

If Zeke didn’t have an O line he wouldn’t be grinding away either. Why is this so hard to accept?

Let’s try this

Cowboys O line >>>>>>>>>>> Giants O line hence more consistent yards per carry.

Sorry. But our online has not been so dominant since Zeke’s rookie season. Stop with the DOMINANT OFFENSIVE LINE BS. They were far from dominant and everyone we played stacked the box and Zeke still kicked ***. We didn’t have all the receiving threats the Giants had early on and there was no OBJ out there demanding extra attention from safeties and linebackers. There’s a reason Zeke carries the ball more than most other backs. Because he’s damned good at it and he can physically handle the load. Saquon cannot. He makes a big gain here and there but he’s far from a steady and consistent runner.

 

[keysersoze]

It's how they run, not how much they can lift in the weight room. Zeke runs w/ more strength.

 

[keysersoze]

HOW MANY TDS DOES ZEKE HAVE IN 17' AND 18'???

How many yards does Zeke have? How many WINS has Zeke carried us through? That’s the stat that matters.

 

[keysersoze]

I disagree with your analysis. It's as simple as that.

You want to blame Barkley's pedestrian performance on 94% of his carries on the o-line, and I think that is a prime example of homerism. You're nothing but a Barkley apologist. If poor play by the o-line was truly to blame, then why didn't Pat Shurmur call out his o-line to the media instead of Saquon Barkley?

Rather, he called out Saquon himself, straight-up stating that Barkley needed to get better (be more willing) at making the "dirty" runs, and specifically blamed the running back's "judgment" and "vision" for the lack of those plays.

But I'm sure you know better than his coach.

See ya.

 

[aria]

Sorry. But our online has not been so dominant since Zeke’s rookie season. Stop with the DOMINANT OFFENSIVE LINE BS. They were far from dominant and everyone we played stacked the box and Zeke still kicked ***. We didn’t have all the receiving threats the Giants had early on and there was no OBJ out there demanding extra attention from safeties and linebackers. There’s a reason Zeke carries the ball more than most other backs. Because he’s damned good at it and he can physically handle the load. Saquon cannot. He makes a big gain here and there but he’s far from a steady and consistent runner.

So the fact that most analysts and sites that break everything down statistically had our O line ranked 1 or 2 respectively during Zeke’s rookie year doesn’t matter, your opinion is what really counts, right? Why don’t you go back and actually read this thread, click on the links I provided and come back with a rational and realistic response instead of just spouting off? There was also a significant difference, specifically with regards to run blocking, last year and I’ve provided that link. Here, I’ll save you the trouble since I’m such a nice guy.

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol

Everyone we played stacked the box, huh? That’s a common excuse I see thrown around. Yeah, they stacked the box a whopping 1.6% more time against Zeke than Barkley. Hardly enough to justify the excuses. I’ll provide another link, hopefully you read it this time instead of dismissing it for your own opinion.

https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/rushing#percent-eight-defenders

You’re right, there’s a reason Zeke carries the load because he’s good at it, never said he wasn’t. But please don’t act like Barkley can’t, surely it wouldn’t have to do with NY playing from behind most games, would it? Nah, that would make too much sense, why run the ball when you’re always behind? That would be genius, they probably would have won a lot more games!

Can’t handle the load? Lol, that might be the best one I’ve heard yet. Even most Zeke homers acknowledge Barkley is more of a physical freak. Perhaps if they weren’t handing the ball off to Zeke so much he would actually have longer runs or is it because he’s so gassed that HE can’t handle the load?

Barkley played a whopping 40 less snaps than Zeke behind a worse O line and had more total yards but he can’t handle the load? Hahahahha...

 

[kskboys]

Lol, yeah, squatting 525 5 times plus his extra weight plus his faster speed has nothing to do with how much strength he runs with, are you kidding me?

Squats = strength.

40 times = speed/athleticism.

Barkley had the most yards after contact which tells me two things. His offensive line sucked and he runs with strength AND elusiveness. If you watched most Giants games you would know that a lot of those yards were broken not just due to his moves, because he was swallowed up quickly, but due to his strength as well. Zeke came in a lowly 5th overall in yards after contact because he’s not as quick or strong.

Barkley came in 2nd in receiving yards after contact and Zeke was a mediocre 10th.

To top it off, Barkley led the league in broken tackles with 71, Zeke was tied for 11th with a paltry and WEAK 22. Get that, Zeke didn’t even break a third of the tackles Barkley did.

So either you should start conceding that Zeke had that much better of an O line, isn’t better than Barkley as a strength runner or a combination of both which is what I’m going with.

Nice try buddy, don’t give up like Zeke did in Denver, you may eventually find something that Zeke did better than Barkley other total rushing yards (due to most carries) AND FUMBLES but I doubt it. Barkley literally blows Zeke out of the water in almost every statistical category and all behind one of the worst lines in the league for a good part of the season.

I'm not kidding you at all. It has almost nothing to do w/ it. Lifting weights is different from playing football. I'm really surprised you don't know this.

 

[aria]

I'm not kidding you at all. It has almost nothing to do w/ it. Lifting weights is different from playing football. I'm really surprised you don't know this.

I do know this but that’s part of it and when you couple that with the other stats I provided I don’t see how you can dispute that logically.

I understand Barkley jumps around more but in most, not all, cases it’s because he’s forced to. When he does run north and south he moves piles and breaks a lot tackles due to his overall strength and leg power. I think a lot of people are naive to this because all they see are ESPN highlights of Barkley evading defenders with his amazing moves and speed. The only goal line runs they show is him leaping over everyone like he did to us. They don’t waste time showing him moving a pile for 3 yards or when it takes 5-6 guys to bring him down which happens quite often.

I don’t know if you live in the DFW area but they always show a lot of Giants games since they are divisional rivals, possibly more-so than Philthy and definitely the Skins. Point being, I saw almost every pathetic Giants game last year and if it weren’t for Barkley I probably wouldn’t have watched any. I like watching good football and good players no matter who they play for, the Gnats only fall under one of those and had 2-3 phenomenal players to watch at best.

 

[keysersoze]

So the fact that most analysts and sites that break everything down statistically had our O line ranked 1 or 2 respectively during Zeke’s rookie year doesn’t matter, your opinion is what really counts, right? Why don’t you go back and actually read this thread, click on the links I provided and come back with a rational and realistic response instead of just spouting off? There was also a significant difference, specifically with regards to run blocking, last year and I’ve provided that link. Here, I’ll save you the trouble since I’m such a nice guy.

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol

Everyone we played stacked the box, huh? That’s a common excuse I see thrown around. Yeah, they stacked the box a whopping 1.6% more time against Zeke than Barkley. Hardly enough to justify the excuses. I’ll provide another link, hopefully you read it this time instead of dismissing it for your own opinion.

https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/rushing#percent-eight-defenders

You’re right, there’s a reason Zeke carries the load because he’s good at it, never said he wasn’t. But please don’t act like Barkley can’t, surely it wouldn’t have to do with NY playing from behind most games, would it? Nah, that would make too much sense, why run the ball when you’re always behind? That would be genius, they probably would have won a lot more games!

Can’t handle the load? Lol, that might be the best one I’ve heard yet. Even most Zeke homers acknowledge Barkley is more of a physical freak. Perhaps if they weren’t handing the ball off to Zeke so much he would actually have longer runs or is it because he’s so gassed that HE can’t handle the load?

Barkley played a whopping 40 less snaps than Zeke behind a worse O line and had more total yards but he can’t handle the load? Hahahahha...

I guess you missed the part where I said OUR OFFENSIVE LINE WAS DOMINANT IN ZEKES ROOKIE SEASON huh?

 

[kskboys]

I do know this but that’s part of it and when you couple that with the other stats I provided I don’t see how you can dispute that logically.

I understand Barkley jumps around more but in most, not all cases it’s because he’s forced to. When he does run north and south he moves piles and breaks tackles, a lot of tackles due to his overall strength and leg power.

I feel the opposite way. I don't see how you can dispute EZ running w/ more power after watching both of them. Maybe Barkley can run w/ power on a regular basis, but at present he doesn't.

 

[CowboysExchange]

How many yards does Zeke have? How many WINS has Zeke carried us through? That’s the stat that matters.

When zeke is getting over 50 % of the targets and only has 6-7 tds and were the worst red zone team in football thats definitely a problem. I think he took on too much running and receiving.

 

[keysersoze]

I do know this but that’s part of it and when you couple that with the other stats I provided I don’t see how you can dispute that logically.

I understand Barkley jumps around more but in most, not all cases it’s because he’s forced to. When he does run north and south he moves piles and breaks tackles, a lot of tackles due to his overall strength and leg power.

No matter what you say. The stats YOU LOVE TO QUOTE prove that Barkley either hits a big run or is stopped for very short gains. That’s not steady Sir. You can write all the novels you want on this board. But the facts are that Barkley is an athletic hit or miss running back who’s career will be short lived IMO. But he’s young and we will see in years to come

 

[keysersoze]

When zeke is getting over 50 % of the targets and only has 6-7 tds and were the worst red zone team in football thats definitely a problem. I think he took on too much running and receiving.

It’s not Zeke’s fault our ******* offensive coordinator refused to punch the ball in from the red zone instead of attempting passes.

 

[aria]

I guess you missed the part where I said OUR OFFENSIVE LINE WAS DOMINANT IN ZEKES ROOKIE SEASON huh?

Guess I did, doesn’t take away from the other link I posted which was last year. Plus if you compare both rookie years then Zeke had that much more of an easier time.

 

[aria]

No matter what you say. The stats YOU LOVE TO QUOTE prove that Barkley either hits a big run or is stopped for very short gains. That’s not steady Sir. You can write all the novels you want on this board. But the facts are that Barkley is an athletic hit or miss running back who’s career will be short lived IMO. But he’s young and we will see in years to come

If he had the same O line we had last year I guarantee you his runs would be more consistent. The Giants O line may be slightly improved this season and if it is then his runs will be as well.

I disagree and think quite the opposite, if they continue to run Zeke the way they do and he continues the same style of running they better keep that O line top 10 of his career will be shortened.

BTW, I never argued his runs aren’t hit or miss, I just want someone to acknowledge the difference in O lines was pretty significant and that correlates directly with any RB’s results. If Zeke ran behind the Giants O line he would have similar numbers to what he had during his worst games last year which were similar to Barkleys. Overall, I think he would actually do worse because Barkley does have the edge in elusiveness and speed and Zeke would be running head first into a brick wall most plays.

 

[keysersoze]

Time will reveal the truth

 

[aria]

Time will reveal the truth

That it will, ideally I’d like to see both of them play behind equivalent lines but that may never happen. If Barkley doesn’t get a better line than nothing will change, he’ll still be great but we won’t see his full potential.

Speaking of time...as always, it’s been a pleasure. Past my bed time for a work night. Until next time...see what I did there?

 

[keysersoze]

That it will, ideally I’d like to see both of them play behind equivalent lines but that may never happen. If Barkley doesn’t get a better line than nothing will change, he’ll still be great but we won’t see his full potential.

Speaking of time...as always, it’s been a pleasure. Past my bed time for a work night. Until next time...see what I did there?

Have a good one.

 

[CowboysExchange]

It’s not Zeke’s fault our ******* offensive coordinator refused to punch the ball in from the red zone instead of attempting passes.

They can run zeke like hes gonna score 2-3 tds a game but hes still only avg 6-7 tds a year.

Ladainian Tomlinson is the all time leading td scorer with 31 tds in one season.

31 tds versus 6-7 tds by Zeke. Tds are just as important to winning as yards.

 

[BigD_95]

Listen, I get it, Saquon Barkley is a freak athlete, a really nice guy, and a big-play waiting to happen. I think he proved himself as the best big-play specialist in the NFL last year and I suspect that will continue into 2019. But, as I have been for this very same reason since he was in college, I'm tapping the brakes on crowning him the best running back in the league --as much of the rest of the sports world is already doing.

I did a breakdown after the season, as I had done for their respective college seasons before Barkley went pro, detailing what their stats look like when you subtract their single biggest run or play from each game of a singular season. Just one per contest. The results, factoring in receptions as well, confirmed my observation that Barkley is a back who lives & dies by the big-play --but is not the every-down runner yet (including collegiately) that you expect a "great" to be.

For this missive, I'll focus only on their rushing totals --although it's equally applicable to their receiving stats as well. But I've got a buddy who says, "Zeke is the best guy in the league to just turn around & hand the ball to." I think this breakdown demonstrates that quite clearly.

So, for posterity, Zeke & Saquon's "rushing" totals for 2018 were:


Saquon Barkley -- 261 carries, 1,307 yards, 5.0 yards-per-carry

Ezekiel Elliott -- 304 carries, 1,434 yards, 4.7 yards-per-carry


However, when you subtract their single biggest run from each game (as I've done for the following stats), this comparison turns very different:


Saquon Barkley -- 245 carries, 783 yards, 3.19 yards-per-carry

Ezekiel Elliott -- 289 carries, 1,199 yards, 4.14 yards-per-carry


The disparity is astonishing. Remove just 16 runs from Barkley's season (out of 261) and he drops a *WHOPPING* 524 yards from his total! Conversely, when you take away Zeke's longest run from each game, his total drops only 235 yards.

To put it another way:

Saquon averaged 32.75 yards on only 16 carries of the season.

And he averaged 3.19 yards-per-carry over the remaining 245!

Over the course of the season, without those 16 "long" runs Barkley's average plummets from a robust 5.0 to a paltry 3.19 per-carry (almost 2 full yards less). Zeke, on the other hand, minus his best run from each contest, falls from a 4.7-yard average to a still respectable 4.14 yards-per-carry.

For even greater perspective, if you subtract Elliott's best run from every game he still would have finished 3rd in the league in rushing. When you take away Barkley's longest runs, however, he drops from 2nd in the league in rushing all the way down to 23rd --

That is a precipitous plummet!


But while I believe those stats alone clearly distinguish Zeke as the better runner on a down-to-down basis, by a lot, and likewise demonstrate Barkley as the better big-play back, it's not until it's broken down on a game-by-game basis that the vivid difference in their contributions to their team's offensive success becomes perfectly clear. So we're going to take a more microcosmic look at this parallel to bear out the conclusion that Ezekiel Elliott remains, quite simply, the very best running back in the NFL.


So the way I'll do this for greatest visual appeal is to list their rushing totals per-week MINUS both back's single biggest run from each game. The effect is really quite eye-popping:


Week 1 --

Saquon: 17 carries, 38 yards, 2.23 YPC

Ezekiel: 14 carries, 52 yards, 3.71 YPC


Week 2 --

Saquon: 10 carries, 18 yards, 1.80 YPC

Ezekiel: 16 carries, 59 yards, 3.68 YPC


Week 3 --

Saquon: 16 carries, 58 yards, 3.62 YPC

Ezekiel: 15 carries, 101 yards, 6.73 YPC


Week 4 --

Saquon: 9 carries, 16 yards, 1.77 YPC

Ezekiel: 24 carries, 111 yards, 4.62 YPC


Week 5 --

Saquon: 14 carries, 18 yards, 1.28 YPC

Ezekiel: 19 carries, 40 yards, 2.10 YPC


Week 6 --

Saquon: 12 carries, 80 yards, 6.66 YPC

Ezekiel: 23 carries, 85 yards, 3.69 YPC


Week 7 --

Saquon: 13 carries, 28 yards, 2.15 YPC

Ezekiel: 14 carries, 27 yards, 1.92 YPC


Week 8 --

Saquon: 12 carries, 29 yards, 2.41 YPC

Ezekiel: 16 carries, 44 yards, 2.75 YPC


Week 9 --

Saquon: 19 carries, 49 yards, 2.57 YPC

Ezekiel: 18 carries, 116 yards, 6.44 YPC


Week 10 --

Saquon: 26 carries, 119 yards, 4.57 YPC

Ezekiel: 22 carries, 99 yards, 4.50 YPC


Week 11 --

Saquon: 12 carries, 50 yards, 4.16 YPC

Ezekiel: 25 carries, 105 yards, 4.20 YPC


Week 12 --

Saquon: 23 carries, 96 yards, 4.17 YPC

Ezekiel: 22 carries, 54 yards, 2.45 YPC


Week 13 --

Saquon: 13 carries, 92 yards, 7.07 YPC

Ezekiel: 27 carries, 93 yards, 3.44 YPC


Week 14 --

Saquon: 13 carries, 14 yards, 1.07 YPC

Ezekiel: 17 carries, 63 yards, 3.70 YPC


Week 15 --

Saquon: 20 carries, 37 yards, 1.85 YPC

Ezekiel: 17 carries, 68 yards, 4.00 YPC


Week 16 --

Saquon: 16 carries, 41 yards, 2.56 YPC

Ezekiel: Did-Not-Play


So out of 15 games, side-by-side, subtracting their single longest runs from each contest, Zeke had a higher yards-per-carry than Saquon in 10 of those contests, outpacing Barkley by an average of: 1.48, 1.88, 3.11, 2.85, 0.82, 0.34, 3.87, 0.04, 2.63, and 2.16 yards-per-carry.

Accumulatively, those 10 games amount to --


Saquon: 142 carries, 469 yards, 3.30 YPC

Ezekiel: 168 carries, 759 yards, 4.51 YPC


Minus their one longest run from each of those games, it's clear that Zeke was the far more productive, effective, consistent back across 2/3rds of the season and a vaster number of carries. Conversely, in the 5 games Barkley outdid Zeke, the stats are:


Saquon: 87 carries, 415 yards, 4.77 YPC

Ezekiel: 108 carries, 358 yards, 3.61 YPC


So for 5 games out of the season, minus their big runs, Saquon averaged 1.16 yards-per-carry more than Zeke --out-rushing him by 57 yards across those 5 games.

For 10 games out of the season, minus their big runs, Zeke averaged 1.20 yards-per-carry more than Saquon --out-rushing him by 290 yards across those 10 games.

Over the course of the season, minus their big runs, that amounts to 457 more rushing yards for Zeke and nearly 1 full yard-per-carry (0.95) greater.


If we pit their 16th game of the season against one another (Week 16 for Saquon, Week 1 of the Playoffs for Zeke), again, subtracting their single biggest run from each game --


Saquon: 16 carries, 41 yards, 2.56 YPC

Ezekiel: 25 carries, 93 yards, 3.72 YPC


Consistently, Elliott demonstrates that he is the more productive runner, by quite a bit, across the far broader number and circumstances of their respective carries. Barkley may indeed be the better home-run hitter. But there's no question that Zeke is out there getting the dirty yards, the needed yards, Saquon is leaving on the field; and the fortunes of their teams in 2018 each reflect the natural result of that:


RECORDS --

Cowboys: 10-6

Giants: 5-11


This is also assessed in the fact that Zeke picked up 73 first-downs, to Saquon's 50, in one fewer game.

That's 69 more downs of offense that Zeke's legs provided for his team than Barkley did for his.


Saquon had 5 more runs of 20+ yards than Zeke (16-to-11) & 6 more runs of 40+ yards (7-to-1).

Which do you think a coach who wants to win would prefer, 11 more "explosive" plays on the season, or 69 more offensive snaps? And this whole query instantly makes me think of Emmitt Smith vs. Barry Sanders, because like I predicted before the season, the Zeke/Saquon rivalry is shaping up very much like the old debate between those greats!

Saquon, like Sanders (his idol), is the best big-play threat in the league.

Ezekiel, like Emmitt, is the best running back in the league.


Of course, this contest isn't remotely over. But in all the metrics we can currently assess, college & the pros, this is who these backs have proven themselves to be, consistently. It's extraordinary how much their college production mirrors their NFL performances. I strongly suspect this will continue, and I don't think we've seen either of their bests.

Athletically, this season should display the very best Ezekiel Elliott the world has ever seen. He is now a young 23 years old and is likely fully grown. Word is he's in the best shape of his life, has gone from 225lbs. in his rookie year (when he was the youngest player in the league) to a manly 230lbs. this offseason.

I believe we're about to see the biggest, strongest, and fastest Ezekiel Elliott there has ever been.

And it might just be a perfect storm regarding the physical maturation of his ability being paired with all the talent surrounding him. There's no question in my mind that Zeke is coming into the best situation for a running back in the NFL to produce at a big-time level. Barkley is certain to have more than 15-minutes of fame. But when, not if, Elliott leads the NFL in rushing again, maybe to unprecedented degrees, people are going to have to start acknowledging that #21 is the #1 runner in the league.


--yeah, even if Barkley has more "big-plays" on the season.

Take those away, and Barkley is over 40% less of a running back.

Kid's got to show me some things before he's in the same breath with Zeke...

great post and what I been saying. I thought Barkley was overrated at PSU. When they played real teams Barkley did the same thing. Had 1 good run and the rest of the game he wasnt good.