Saw this from a Seahawk fan in regards to the Cowboys D

[gimmesix]

why sign sherman for one year? this defense is far from ready, now implementing a new system. Sherman would be good for a superbowl ready team that can make a run and is needing a veteran CB.....any money to any FAs for one year is a huge mistake.

Every year is an opportunity to compete. To do that, you need starters and you can't get them all in the draft.

I would prefer that Dallas sign some young star FA in his prime to fill one or two of our needs, but the Joneses have shown that they are not going to do that. So the choice is to just accept sucking for a year and sign no free agents or fill a few spots with lower-cost veterans while you try to build the defense and win games.

You ask me what I want and I'll say give me Justin Simmons long term. I'll take Leonard Williams on a long-term deal as well. I'm not going to get that, though. That does not mean we can't compete, but we've got to shore up a few spots with stopgaps to do it.

Frankly, it's possible that Sherman will end up out of our price range.

 

[gimmesix]

I think we go to the draft, and we have 10 picks (and couple of trades can easily get to 11)....lets give quinn one year to implement his system, see what we have in draft picks and go into 2022 with a much clearer picture of what we need based on what we have found....no pricey FAs needed. no older FA needed. focus on defensive draft and defensive draft only.

Most drafts you end up with four starters at best no matter how many picks you have. Usually, it's fewer than that, two or three, who turn out to be starting quality players. We can't fill all of our defensive needs even with a defensive-only draft.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

Every year is an opportunity to compete. To do that, you need starters and you can't get them all in the draft.

I would prefer that Dallas sign some young star FA in his prime to fill one or two of our needs, but the Joneses have shown that they are not going to do that. So the choice is to just accept sucking for a year and sign no free agents or fill a few spots with lower-cost veterans while you try to build the defense and win games.

You ask me what I want and I'll say give me Justin Simmons long term. I'll take Leonard Williams on a long-term deal as well. I'm not going to get that, though. That does not mean we can't compete, but we've got to shore up a few spots with stopgaps to do it.

Frankly, it's possible that Sherman will end up out of our price range.

yes, true, but you need to have true assessment of where the team is and their ability to compete. 2 years ago jerry made the wrong assessment. thought we were ready. had the team. coaches, etc. and gave in to Zeke, 2 years before his contract expired and gave him the biggest contract of any RB...was that wise?

no, you need to be honest with yourself. and this year, we saw this defense really sucks. they are bad. they were exposed. everyone here agrees we probably need 6-8 new starters on this team and upgardes across the board. is Sherman an upgrade over Awuzie or Diggs. perhaps. but how much of an improvement is it? and will it force a rookie to sit down. will he be a progress stopper and will we loose a potential player for a one year rental in a year with lower salary cap and knowing that we need a lot of help on defense. so no to sherman.

I like simmons. I like williams. but to get them you have to over pay. you over pay for FAs...and if I could only choose one, I chose williams. you build inside out.

I also like to get rid of Jaylon if possible.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

Most drafts you end up with four starters at best no matter how many picks you have. Usually, it's fewer than that, two or three, who turn out to be starting quality players. We can't fill all of our defensive needs even with a defensive-only draft.

I agree and I think I like throwing numbers at the problem specially in the first 4 rounds....that's what Patriots did all the time....so if we end up with 4 starters and one elite player...then hallelujah

 

[Cowboyny]

Most drafts you end up with four starters at best no matter how many picks you have. Usually, it's fewer than that, two or three, who turn out to be starting quality players. We can't fill all of our defensive needs even with a defensive-only draft.

A good draft is coming away with 2 immediate starters and 1-2 future starters. With the team having a high pick in every round this year, I think the bar is set at 3 immediate impact starter.

 

[gimmesix]

yes, true, but you need to have true assessment of where the team is and their ability to compete. 2 years ago jerry made the wrong assessment. thought we were ready. had the team. coaches, etc. and gave in to Zeke, 2 years before his contract expired and gave him the biggest contract of any RB...was that wise?

no, you need to be honest with yourself. and this year, we saw this defense really sucks. they are bad. they were exposed. everyone here agrees we probably need 6-8 new starters on this team and upgardes across the board. is Sherman an upgrade over Awuzie or Diggs. perhaps. but how much of an improvement is it? and will it force a rookie to sit down. will he be a progress stopper and will we loose a potential player for a one year rental in a year with lower salary cap and knowing that we need a lot of help on defense. so no to sherman.

I like simmons. I like williams. but to get them you have to over pay. you over pay for FAs...and if I could only choose one, I chose williams. you build inside out.

I also like to get rid of Jaylon if possible.

I don't think Jaylon is going anywhere, partially because we already have enough holes to fill. I also think if we put some good DTs in front of him we will see both Jaylon and LVE play like they did a couple of years ago.

Sherman is only a progress stopper if there is progress to stop. We currently don't any progress to stop. And because FA occurs before the draft, we don't know if we'll get any corners who should be on the field their first year through it.

 

[gimmesix]

A good draft is coming away with 2 immediate starters and 1-2 future starters. With the team having a high pick in every round this year, I think the bar is set at 3 immediate impact starter.

That's a pretty high bar. Two immediate impact starters and a third regular contributor are more likely. If we have a really good draft, maybe the third-rounder develops into an impact starter and the fourth-rounder becomes a starter. If we're lucky, maybe someone in the later rounds proves to be a find.

 

[Cowboyny]

That's a pretty high bar. Two immediate impact starters and a third regular contributor are more likely. If we have a really good draft, maybe the third-rounder develops into an impact starter and the fourth-rounder becomes a starter. If we're lucky, maybe someone in the later rounds proves to be a find.

The bar has to be set higher due to having top 10 picks in almost every round.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

I don't think Jaylon is going anywhere, partially because we already have enough holes to fill. I also think if we put some good DTs in front of him we will see both Jaylon and LVE play like they did a couple of years ago.

Sherman is only a progress stopper if there is progress to stop. We currently don't any progress to stop. And because FA occurs before the draft, we don't know if we'll get any corners who should be on the field their first year through it.

I agree, based on his contract and relationship with Jerry, he is probably here for at least another year.

Jaylon is more and more a liability in coverage. his mobility is obviously limited. his change of direction reaction is almost non-existent...... if they can find an off the ball LB in the draft and have Jaylon be a run stopping, perhaps a 2 down LB, then we might see better results. he is a thumper and if he picks the right hole (which he has missed on a few occasions), then he can help in the run defense. on 3rd downs, he can come off the field and replaced by a safety.

 

[gimmesix]

The bar has to be set higher due to having top 10 picks in almost every round.

We drafted fourth overall the year we got Elliott. Our third-rounder was Maliek Collins. He eventually worked his way into the lineup and did end that first season with 5 sacks. But during his time here, he was more of a decent draft pick than impact starter.

Probably the best pick we've made in the last 10 years as far as immediate impact starter goes is Gallup, and he finished his rookie season with just 33 receptions for 507 yards.

The type of player we're liable to get in the third round based on draft history is a Tyrone Crawford, Collins, a Jourdan Lewis, McGovern or Gallimore. Good rotational pieces, but not a star among them although the jury's out on McGovern and Gallimore.

If we're unlucky, we get a Chaz Green.

We've had the most good fortune in that round with offensive skill position players: Gallup, Terrance Williams and DeMarco Murray.

However, there's no guarantee we don't end up with another Taco Charlton or Morris Claiborne in the first round or Gavin Escobar or Tristen Hill (so far) in the second.

 

[Cowboyny]

We drafted fourth overall the year we got Elliott. Our third-rounder was Maliek Collins. He eventually worked his way into the lineup and did end that first season with 5 sacks. But during his time here, he was more of a decent draft pick than impact starter.

Probably the best pick we've made in the last 10 years as far as immediate impact starter goes is Gallup, and he finished his rookie season with just 33 receptions for 507 yards.

The type of player we're liable to get in the third round based on draft history is a Tyrone Crawford, Collins, a Jourdan Lewis, McGovern or Gallimore. Good rotational pieces, but not a star among them although the jury's out on McGovern and Gallimore.

If we're unlucky, we get a Chaz Green.

We've had the most good fortune in that round with offensive skill position players: Gallup, Terrance Williams and DeMarco Murray.

However, there's no guarantee we don't end up with another Taco Charlton or Morris Claiborne in the first round or Gavin Escobar or Tristen Hill (so far) in the second.

Our defense is so bad, you would think CB, S, LB and a rotational DT could start day 1 and make an immediate impact.

 

[gimmesix]

Our defense is so bad, you would think CB, S, LB and a rotational DT could start day 1 and make an immediate impact.

They might could, but that doesn't mean the defense will be better. Look at Diggs. He has a lot of upside and made some plays for us, but he also struggled quite a bit when he was immediately thrown into starting. It's a huge adjustment even for the best players, although some do adjust quicker than others. And some prove they can't make it in this league.

If Dallas ends up with four immediate impact starters, then this would be considered a great draft. If it ends up with three, it would be considered very good. If it's two, then it would be average.

I think too many fans go into the draft not facing that reality. You can see it on this site, with some talking about drafting a DT in the fourth round and expecting him to solve our NT problem. It might happen, but the probability isn't high. The success rate is below 50 percent.

This is from an article in 2015, but I believe it's still relevant six years later:

• Defensive line ties with running backs and wide receivers for the lowest first round success rate at 58%.

• Of 442 players selected, only 114 have become starters for at least half their careers.

• Drafting a defensive lineman in the 4th round has the highest success rate of all positions at 37%.

• If you were ranking rounds by number drafted it would be 7th, 1st, 3rd, 4th, 6th, 2nd and 5th.

• The success rates are as follows: 1st - 58%, 2nd - 26%, 3rd - 27%, 4th - 37%, 5th - 13%, 6th - 13%, 7th - 3%

• On average, 8 linemen are taken in the 1st, 5 in the 2nd, 6 in the 3rd and 4th, 5 in the fifth and sixth and 9 in the 7th.

 

[Cowboyny]

They might could, but that doesn't mean the defense will be better. Look at Diggs. He has a lot of upside and made some plays for us, but he also struggled quite a bit when he was immediately thrown into starting. It's a huge adjustment even for the best players, although some do adjust quicker than others. And some prove they can't make it in this league.

If Dallas ends up with four immediate impact starters, then this would be considered a great draft. If it ends up with three, it would be considered very good. If it's two, then it would be average.

I think too many fans go into the draft not facing that reality. You can see it on this site, with some talking about drafting a DT in the fourth round and expecting him to solve our NT problem. It might happen, but the probability isn't high. The success rate is below 50 percent.

This is from an article in 2015, but I believe it's still relevant six years later:

• Defensive line ties with running backs and wide receivers for the lowest first round success rate at 58%.

• Of 442 players selected, only 114 have become starters for at least half their careers.

• Drafting a defensive lineman in the 4th round has the highest success rate of all positions at 37%.

• If you were ranking rounds by number drafted it would be 7th, 1st, 3rd, 4th, 6th, 2nd and 5th.

• The success rates are as follows: 1st - 58%, 2nd - 26%, 3rd - 27%, 4th - 37%, 5th - 13%, 6th - 13%, 7th - 3%

• On average, 8 linemen are taken in the 1st, 5 in the 2nd, 6 in the 3rd and 4th, 5 in the fifth and sixth and 9 in the 7th.

Defensive line prospects have steep learning curves as they have to refine their technique and mold their bodies

 

[gimmesix]

Defensive line prospects have steep learning curves as they have to refine their technique and mold their bodies

Defensive linemen have won Rookie Defensive Player of the Year five times in the last seven years and nine of the last 11.

 

[kskboys]

Defensive line prospects have steep learning curves as they have to refine their technique and mold their bodies

If you take projects.

 

[Cowboyny]

If you take projects.

Look across the league, how many do you see make a year 1 impact. Last year outside of Chase Young, who is a stud, nobody stood out. The likes of Brown, Kinlaw, Chaisson had their struggles.

 

[Cowboyny]

Defensive linemen have won Rookie Defensive Player of the Year five times in the last seven years and nine of the last 11.

Yeah, they were all selecting inside the top 10 of the draft. The talent is no where near that in this class, where they ,may not even be 1 defensive lineman taken in the top 20.

 

[gimmesix]

Yeah, they were all selecting inside the top 10 of the draft. The talent is no where near that in this class, where they ,may not even be 1 defensive lineman taken in the top 20.

Doesn't mean they can't be effective as rookies. I'd much rather go the draft route and overload the position in hopes of finding a couple of quality starters than roll the dice on a broken-down lineman hoping to squeeze one more good year out of him, like we did last year with McCoy and Poe.

I know there's an in-between, but the Joneses have shown they do not spend what it takes in free agency to get better veterans than that. Our only real hope for fixing the line, which has to be our defensive priority, is to make a concerted effort to draft defensive tackles.

 

[Cowboyny]

Doesn't mean they can't be effective as rookies. I'd much rather go the draft route and overload the position in hopes of finding a couple of quality starters than roll the dice on a broken-down lineman hoping to squeeze one more good year out of him, like we did last year with McCoy and Poe.

I know there's an in-between, but the Joneses have shown they do not spend what it takes in free agency to get better veterans than that. Our only real hope for fixing the line, which has to be our defensive priority, is to make a concerted effort to draft defensive tackles.

There is no doubt they have to upgrade the talent, especially at DT 1 Tech. Really have to address it both in fa and the draft. What makes it difficult, there are defensive needs throughout the roster, where they need 5-6 new, upgraded starters. That's a lot to fill in 1 off-season, without much cap space to work with. Get two quality players in fa and hopefully 3 day 1 impact starters in the draft.

 

[gimmesix]

There is no doubt they have to upgrade the talent, especially at DT 1 Tech. Really have to address it both in fa and the draft. What makes it difficult, there are defensive needs throughout the roster, where they need 5-6 new, upgraded starters. That's a lot to fill in 1 off-season, without much cap space to work with. Get two quality players in fa and hopefully 3 day 1 impact starters in the draft.

I'm not counting on the two quality players in FA, especially at DL. Because of that, I'd rather trade down in the first round with Barmore being the target (but there are others like Horn and Moehrig who could be as well) and pick up another second. I think we have a better chance of getting those three Day 1 impact starters that way. I also would plan to use one of those second-round picks on another DT, one who can play the 1-tech spot.

So my hope would be trade down, get two DTs in the first two rounds and use the other pick on a corner or free safety, depending on how the draft falls. Of course, you can't plan that out completely, but that's what I'd go for. And I'd probably add another DT and DB in the third round, although a case could be made for adding a linebacker instead of the DT or even another DB.

I know some are going to say you can't do that, you've got to choose best player available, but there are usually tier groups where you really can't distinguish between prospects and it's easier to take what you need. I'm not talking about reaching. I don't want us to take someone from a lower tier over someone from a higher tier. In fact, one reason for trading down in the first round is because no DT is rated in the top 10.

So my perfect plan would look like this:

Trade down
1st: DT
2nd: DB (or DT)
2nd: DT (or DB)
3rd: DB (or DT)
3rd: DT (or DB)

The order could change some based on who is available, but that's the two positions I'd use those picks on. (If I selected defensive tackles with the first two picks, I might make the next three all defensive backs and not select another DT until the fourth, which is also when I'd probably select a linebacker depending on how things fall.)

As far as free agency goes, I think we have a better chance at some plug-and-play veterans in the secondary than we do on the defensive line. And I think given Quinn's history, a couple of the players who have been mentioned in this thread could end up in Dallas.