Seahawks defensive depth chart

[Galian Beast]

I think it is important for us to look at the Seahawks defensive depth chart, not only because they're the best defense in the league, because of the system that we are trying to produce here in Dallas.

LDE - Red Bryant (4rd 08) - Texas A&M, Michael Bennett (FA 13)
LDT - Tony McDaniel - Tennessee(UFA 06)
RDT - Brandon Mebane - California Berkley (3rd 07)
RDE - Chris Clemons (FA 10) - Georgia, Cliff Avril (FA 13)

WLB - Bruce Irvin (1st 12) - West Virginia
MLB - Bobby Wagner (2nd 12) - Utah State
SLB - Malcolm Smith (7th 11) - USC

LCB - Richard Sherman (5th 11) - Stanford
SS - Kam Chancellor (5th 10) - Virginia Tech
FS - Earl Thomas (1st 10) - Texas
RCB - Byron Maxwell (6th 11) - Clemson

That entire back 7 was created in 3 years. Also note that they've been a top defense the last 3 years.

They were pretty bad in 2010. They have 3 of their starters remaining from 2010.

They were a top defense in 2011. They have 6 of their starters from 2011.

They were a top defense in 2012. They have 7 of their starters from 2012.

Here is our projected 2013 depth chart

LDE - Spencer (X)
DT - Ratliff (X)
DT - Hatcher (X)
RDE - Ware (X)

SLB - Durant (X)
MLB - Lee
WLB - Carter (y)

LCB - Carr (y)
RCB - Claiborne (y)
FS - Church (y)
SS - Allen (X)

I've put an (X) next to their names if I think by no circumstances they should be here next year. Many of these players are already gone or they are free agents.

I've put a (y) next to their names if I think they should be given a one year trial.

Carter is in the final year of his contract.

Claiborne actually has two years left, but I would cut or trade him after this year if he doesn't show improvement.

Carr I would cut early if he doesn't show improvement and consistency with an improved pass rush. Same goes for Church.

The three players who are question marks for the future are Scandrick who we just resigned and Wilcox/Holloman, who might have a future.

The entire defensive line should be replaced this year. I'm very adamant about that.

I think we could potentially let Holloman start next year in place of Durant and see how he progresses. Wilber could also play into that potentially.

I would focus all of 2014 on the defensive line, and then all of 2015 on the secondary if necessary.

 

[xwalker]

Chris Clemons was obtained in a trade. Clifton McDonald was also obtained in a trade.

There is no reason to cut Durant before training camp. They can bring him to camp and if they have better options, then they can cut him. He was good when he played MLB. They don't really have a backup MLB, especially if Holloman were to win a job as an OLB.

Claiborne actually has two years left, but I would cut or trade him after this year if he doesn't show improvement.

You would get next to nothing for him if he does not improve. If he does improve, then there would be no need to trade him. Getting picks for unwanted players is generally a fantasy.

Carr I would cut early if he doesn't show improvement and consistency with an improved pass rush. Same goes for Church.

What does this mean? Cut early? His salary is guaranteed once the season starts.

I don't have a problem cutting Ware; however, I would be OK keeping him with a huge pay cut. I doubt he would take a big enough pay cut to make it worth keeping him, but you never know.

 

[Galian Beast]

Chris Clemons was obtained in a trade. Clifton McDonald was also obtained in a trade.

There is no reason to cut Durant before training camp. They can bring him to camp and if they have better options, then they can cut him. He was good when he played MLB. They don't really have a backup MLB, especially if Holloman were to win a job as an OLB.


You would get next to nothing for him if he does not improve. If he does improve, then there would be no need to trade him. Getting picks for unwanted players is generally a fantasy.


What does this mean? Cut early? His salary is guaranteed once the season starts.

I don't have a problem cutting Ware; however, I would be OK keeping him with a huge pay cut. I doubt he would take a big enough pay cut to make it worth keeping him, but you never know.

Trading a player you don't plan to sign (not because he isn't good, but because he isn't a great fit) certainly is a way to get picks.

Cut early as in release the player before their contract is up. That should have been obvious.

I'd cut Durant because he is entirely too expensive for what he provides.

 

[xwalker]

Trading a player you don't plan to sign (not because he isn't good, but because he isn't a great fit) certainly is a way to get picks.

Cut early as in release the player before their contract is up. That should have been obvious.

I'd cut Durant because he is entirely too expensive for what he provides.

Even this past season, Claiborne was a decent 3rd CB. It's not worth giving up a cheap 3rd CB for a 7th round pick.

If "cut early" was obvious, I wouldn't have asked the question.

Durant's salary is only 1.25M for 2014. That's only about 400k over the veterans minimum.

 

[Galian Beast]

Even this past season, Claiborne was a decent 3rd CB. It's not worth giving up a cheap 3rd CB for a 7th round pick.

If "cut early" was obvious, I wouldn't have asked the question.

Durant's salary is only 1.25M for 2014. That's only about 400k over the veterans minimum.

Claiborne wasn't anywhere close to decent this season, nor did I suggest trading him for a 7th rounder. I wasn't suggesting a veteran to replace Durant.

 

[Kevinicus]

Claiborne wasn't anywhere close to decent this season, nor did I suggest trading him for a 7th rounder. I wasn't suggesting a veteran to replace Durant.

You are very wrong on Claiborne. The defense was night and day different when he was in there. His absence was a huge reason for how terrible the defense turned out. His absence was felt much more than Lee's was.

 

[xwalker]

Claiborne wasn't anywhere close to decent this season, nor did I suggest trading him for a 7th rounder. I wasn't suggesting a veteran to replace Durant.

If Claiborne does not turn it around in 2014, then he won't be a starter. You're not going to get more than a 7th for a player that didn't start in either 2013 or 2014.

Claiborne was decent when compared to other 3rd CBs. People are comparing him to the expectations for a high first round pick which is now irrelevant in terms of keeping him on the roster.

The bottom end of the roster always has a number of veteran players making the minimum. Durant is just barely above that amount. Like I said, they can cut him during/after training camp if they find better options; however, there is no reason to cut him now.

 

[Galian Beast]

If Claiborne does not turn it around in 2014, then he won't be a starter. You're not going to get more than a 7th for a player that didn't start in either 2013 or 2014.

Claiborne was decent when compared to other 3rd CBs. People are comparing him to the expectations for a high first round pick which is now irrelevant in terms of keeping him on the roster.

The bottom end of the roster always has a number of veteran players making the minimum. Durant is just barely above that amount. Like I said, they can cut him during/after training camp if they find better options; however, there is no reason to cut him now.

Please re-read what I said and re-evaluate my response. Whether we trade or cut him would depend entirely on his market value and how well he plays next year.

He isn't just a high first round pick, we traded up to get him. I wouldn't say it is irrelevant either given that we're paying him like a pretty solid veteran in future years.

Like I said before, I wouldn't replace him with a veteran. You can get a much cheaper rookie to come in and be the backup for those spots.

 

[Galian Beast]

You are very wrong on Claiborne. The defense was night and day different when he was in there. His absence was a huge reason for how terrible the defense turned out. His absence was felt much more than Lee's was.

Yeah he got demoted because he was lighting it up out there...

 

[xwalker]

Please re-read what I said and re-evaluate my response. Whether we trade or cut him would depend entirely on his market value and how well he plays next year.

He isn't just a high first round pick, we traded up to get him. I wouldn't say it is irrelevant either given that we're paying him like a pretty solid veteran in future years.

I'm trying to explain that if he plays well, then there is no need to trade him. If he does not play well, then he has minimal market value.

His salary is 1.8M which is still cheap for a quality 3rd CB. Scandrick was intended to be the 3rd CB and he is getting paid more.

Like I said before, I wouldn't replace him with a veteran. You can get a much cheaper rookie to come in and be the backup for those spots.

I think we're talking about Durant here.

NFL teams never have all rookies as the backup and/or special teams players. There will be some veteran minimum players that probably only play Special Teams. It's likely that some of them will be LBs because Special Teams coaches usually like LBs on their units.

Also, you're not addressing the fact that there is no reason not to bring him to training camp.

 

[JoeyBoy718]

People need to stop giving Sean Lee so much credit. He's the only guy on your defense that deserves a roster spot and not a one-year trial. Our defense is so bad it's impossible to even come close to the Seahawks. There's really no point to even think about it. This team will be bad for a long time.

 

[Galian Beast]

I'm trying to explain that if he plays well, then there is no need to trade him. If he does not play well, then he has minimal market value.

His salary is 1.8M which is still cheap for a quality 3rd CB. Scandrick was intended to be the 3rd CB and he is getting paid more.


I think we're talking about Durant here.

NFL teams never have all rookies as the backup and/or special teams players. There will be some veteran minimum players that probably only play Special Teams. It's likely that some of them will be LBs because Special Teams coaches usually like LBs on their units.

Also, you're not addressing the fact that there is no reason not to bring him to training camp.

I don't think you resign him, so if he plays better I'd certainly look to move him. He doesn't fit in this scheme. And resigning him will almost certainly cost a lot. Also I think you're looking at the wrong year.

As for Durant, we had tons of veteran secondary players this year huh?

 

[xwalker]

I don't think you resign him, so if he plays better I'd certainly look to move him. He doesn't fit in this scheme. And resigning him will almost certainly cost a lot. Also I think you're looking at the wrong year.

As for Durant, we had tons of veteran secondary players this year huh?

I don't know what you referring to in terms of the "year".

They had plenty of minimum wage veterans. Off the top of my head, Danny McCray, Orie Lemon, Ernie Sims, etc..

 

[Galian Beast]

I don't know what you referring to in terms of the "year".

They had plenty of minimum wage veterans. Off the top of my head, Danny McCray, Orie Lemon, Ernie Sims, etc..

I specifically said in the secondary. And as for what I'm talking about in terms of years is Claiborne, who will cost 2.6 million in base salary in 2015.

 

[Leadbelly]

Attempting a projection out to 2014…

DE -- Demarcus Ware / Michael Sam (R- R2 Missouri)
DT -- Lamarr Houston (FA) / Mike Neal (FA) / Chris Whaley (R-R7 Texas)
DT -- Ra'Shede Hageman (R-R1 Minnesota) / Ben Bass / Nick Hayden
DE -- George Selvie / Tyrone Crawford / Mike Neal

OLB -- Bruce Carter / Justin Durant
MLB -- Sean Lee / Devonte Holloman / Orie Lemon
OLB -- Devonte Holloman / Kyle Wilbur / Alex Albright

CB -- Orlando Scandrick / Morris Claiborne / BW Webb or rookie
CB -- Brandon Carr / Sterling Moore / Jimmie Ward (R-R3 Northern Illinois)
NB -- Orlando Scandrick / BW Webb
SS -- Barry Church / Jeff Heath
FS -- JJ Wilcox / Jimmie Ward (R-R3 Northern Illinois) / Matt Johnson or Jakar Hamilton

red is returning from season injury.
grey is player covering multiple positions on depth chart.

Sign: Lamarr Houston, DT/DE, Oakland 27
6Y/$40M ($15M Guaranteed)
* I used Kyle Williams (Bills) as a model, who signed in 2011 for 6 years and $33.5m ($17m guaranteed).


Sign: Mike Neal, DT/DE, Green Bay 27
4Y/$7M ($2M Guaranteed)


Maybe it's Crawford starting over Selvie. Maybe a rookie over Wilcox. But something like this seems attainable and capable of competing barring a rash of injuries or rookie busts. If Claiborne and Carter were to return to Rob Ryan form and develop like most expected, and the rest avoid the rash of injuries, it's potentially pretty good.

 

[Galian Beast]

Attempting a projection out to 2014…

DE -- Demarcus Ware / Michael Sam (R- R2 Missouri)
DT -- Lamarr Houston (FA) / Mike Neal (FA) / Chris Whaley (R-R7 Texas)
DT -- Ra'Shede Hageman (R-R1 Minnesota) / Ben Bass / Nick Hayden
DE -- George Selvie / Tyrone Crawford / Mike Neal

OLB -- Bruce Carter / Justin Durant
MLB -- Sean Lee / Devonte Holloman / Orie Lemon
OLB -- Devonte Holloman / Kyle Wilbur / Alex Albright

CB -- Orlando Scandrick / Morris Claiborne / BW Webb or rookie
CB -- Brandon Carr / Sterling Moore / Jimmie Ward (R-R3 Northern Illinois)
NB -- Orlando Scandrick / BW Webb
SS -- Barry Church / Jeff Heath
FS -- JJ Wilcox / Jimmie Ward (R-R3 Northern Illinois) / Matt Johnson or Jakar Hamilton

red is returning from season injury.
grey is player covering multiple positions on depth chart.

Sign: Lamarr Houston, DT/DE, Oakland 27
6Y/$40M ($15M Guaranteed)
* I used Kyle Williams (Bills) as a model, who signed in 2011 for 6 years and $33.5m ($17m guaranteed).


Sign: Mike Neal, DT/DE, Green Bay 27
4Y/$7M ($2M Guaranteed)


Maybe it's Crawford starting over Selvie. Maybe a rookie over Wilcox. But something like this seems attainable and capable of competing barring a rash of injuries or rookie busts. If Claiborne and Carter were to return to Rob Ryan form and develop like most expected, and the rest avoid the rash of injuries, it's potentially pretty good.

That would be an awful defense...

 

[perrykemp]

That would be an awful defense...

Yes, but <less> awful than this past season.

 

[xwalker]

I specifically said in the secondary. And as for what I'm talking about in terms of years is Claiborne, who will cost 2.6 million in base salary in 2015.

Why secondary when that part of the discussion was about Durant the LB? McCray is a secondary player.

Claiborne's 2.6M salary in 2015 is even more reason that a team will not trade for him unless he has a good year in 2014. And again, if he has a good year, there is no reason to trade him.

 

[perrykemp]

Why secondary when that part of the discussion was about Durant the LB? McCray is a secondary player.

Claiborne's 2.6M salary in 2015 is even more reason that a team will not trade for him unless he has a good year in 2014. And again, if he has a good year, there is no reason to trade him.

True, however, it's not uncommon for teams to ship away disappointing 1st round picks while they are still in their 1st contract for no other reason than the front-office doesn't want to be constantly reminded of the mistake they made everytime they watch a team practice or watch game film.

Think about how San Fran and KC traded their two disappointing 1st round pick WRs this season as an example.

 

[xwalker]

Attempting a projection out to 2014…

DE -- Demarcus Ware / Michael Sam (R- R2 Missouri)
DT -- Lamarr Houston (FA) / Mike Neal (FA) / Chris Whaley (R-R7 Texas)
DT -- Ra'Shede Hageman (R-R1 Minnesota) / Ben Bass / Nick Hayden
DE -- George Selvie / Tyrone Crawford / Mike Neal

OLB -- Bruce Carter / Justin Durant
MLB -- Sean Lee / Devonte Holloman / Orie Lemon
OLB -- Devonte Holloman / Kyle Wilbur / Alex Albright

CB -- Orlando Scandrick / Morris Claiborne / BW Webb or rookie
CB -- Brandon Carr / Sterling Moore / Jimmie Ward (R-R3 Northern Illinois)
NB -- Orlando Scandrick / BW Webb
SS -- Barry Church / Jeff Heath
FS -- JJ Wilcox / Jimmie Ward (R-R3 Northern Illinois) / Matt Johnson or Jakar Hamilton

red is returning from season injury.
grey is player covering multiple positions on depth chart.

Sign: Lamarr Houston, DT/DE, Oakland 27
6Y/$40M ($15M Guaranteed)
* I used Kyle Williams (Bills) as a model, who signed in 2011 for 6 years and $33.5m ($17m guaranteed).


Sign: Mike Neal, DT/DE, Green Bay 27
4Y/$7M ($2M Guaranteed)


Maybe it's Crawford starting over Selvie. Maybe a rookie over Wilcox. But something like this seems attainable and capable of competing barring a rash of injuries or rookie busts. If Claiborne and Carter were to return to Rob Ryan form and develop like most expected, and the rest avoid the rash of injuries, it's potentially pretty good.

Interesting.

Oakland has more cap space than anybody IIRC. I doubt they let Houston leave. Also, I think he would be a 3-tech DT in Marinelli's scheme. I don't know if he would want to move from 4-3 DE to 4-3 DT.

I like the Mike Neal signing. It's probably going to take a like more to sign him.

Jimmie Ward would be a good pick IF he makes it to the 3rd round. Physically, he looks like a CB, which is a good thing for a FS, IMO. He is not a real physical player and his tackling is ugly, but generally effective. He is the type of Safety that the Cowboys need, IMO; although, I don't know if another mid-round young Safety is really a cure for the Cowboys. I love the youth movement with the roster in general, but having 2 young starting Safeties is a difficult position to be in.

Alex Albright was originally on IR, but I think they gave him an injury settlement and cut him loose.

I'm a little iffy on Hageman and Sam. Hageman has terrific physical ability, but he seems to disappear a lot.

I like some things about Sam. He does have really long arms to offset his lack of height, but a smaller type DE he doesn't have the elite burst that I would like to see in a WDE.

If Durant is on the team, I see him as the backup MLB. He was good at that spot in limited action this past season. I expect Holloman to push to start at OLB and I don't expect him to be practicing MLB.

There are in bad shape if Orie Lemon is still on the roster. He is not a good option as a 4-3 LB, IMO. His best chance is to play ILB for a 3-4 team. He looked more like a lineman than a LB on his return stint this season.