Senior Bowl Thread

[TheCount]

Von Miller is going to be a stud! Mark my words. But unfortunately for us, he is probably better suited to play in a 4-3. I'd still take him though. Gig Em!!!

I don't see that, playing OLB in a 4-3 would be a pretty big waste of his talents and he's too small to play DE in a 4-3.

 

[TheCount]

Werent people give Von Miller **** for his game against LSU and I was saying he was playing well? Now that Schefter tweeted hes top 5 people are going nuts.

I wouldnt touch him at 9. Spencer is lazy and Miller isnt physical. Neither are Ware clones like Robert Quinn is

Yeah I found that funny as well. I can't remember who it was that said he was playing bad and only had 3 tackles the entire game. Turns out he had 9 and a sack. They couldn't even get the stats right, and they were trying to base his performance off stats alone.

 

[speedkilz88]

I don't see that, playing OLB in a 4-3 would be a pretty big waste of his talents and he's too small to play DE in a 4-3.

He could still blitz from the OLB spot and go to end on 3rd and long.

 

[realtick]

No, Im sure some hipster underground site out there was all over Chris Johnson being a 2,000 yard rusher.

God only makes so many Chris Johnsons and Ray Rice's'. Who can predict such an occurrence

Wait, you're missing the point, if Mayock is really a cut-above the rest, then he should have been all over Chris Johnson. Should he not have?

If we're pointing out how Mayock was no different than everyone else that missed out on Chris Johnson, then my point about Mayock is only being proven: He's no better a player evaluator than the Kipers and McShays of the world

Mayock also said Robert Ayers was "is the best defensive player coming out of this draft (2009)" http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_12230256

He also had Knowshown Moreno as one of the two best players in the entire draft, lol!

 

[CATCH17]

He could still blitz from the OLB spot and go to end on 3rd and long.

Yeah it's not like Spencer is effective on 3rd down anyways.

 

[Randy White]

I don't see that, playing OLB in a 4-3 would be a pretty big waste of his talents and he's too small to play DE in a 4-3.

That depends.. Derrick Brooks didn't waste his talents on a 4-3..

 

[realtick]

Miller played a good game today and he did nothing to change my mind regarding him in a 34. I think his best position is at WLB in 43.

 

[NeonNinja]

Wait, you're missing the point, if Mayock is really a cut-above the rest, then he should have been all over Chris Johnson. Should he not have?

If we're pointing out how Mayock was no different than everyone else that missed out on Chris Johnson, then my point about Mayock is only being proven: He's no better a player evaluator than the Kipers and McShays of the world

Mayock also said Robert Ayers was "is the best defensive player coming out of this draft (2009)" http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_12230256

He also had Knowshown Moreno as one of the two best players in the entire draft, lol!

Not a single one of them is perfect, you can point that out with all of them.

 

[dwmyers]

I agree he needs more lower body strength, but people use his weight as the end all be all as to why he won't be a 34 OLB. At least if he weighs in at 245-250, people could stop using that excuse.

Although when he does weigh in at 245, people will just say he doesn't have the lower body strength to be a OLB in a 34. It's a lose lose lose situation with this guy, apparently...

Some guys never win with draftniks. Phillip Rivers doesn't throw the ball correctly, and Ladanian Tomlinson doesn't have the ability to run inside. Kris Jenkins isn't smart enough to play defensive tackle in the NFL, and so on..

 

[Oh_Canada]

Wait, you're missing the point, if Mayock is really a cut-above the rest, then he should have been all over Chris Johnson. Should he not have?

If we're pointing out how Mayock was no different than everyone else that missed out on Chris Johnson, then my point about Mayock is only being proven: He's no better a player evaluator than the Kipers and McShays of the world

Mayock also said Robert Ayers was "is the best defensive player coming out of this draft (2009)" http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_12230256

He also had Knowshown Moreno as one of the two best players in the entire draft, lol!

I also remember Mayock calling Ryan Clady far and away the best value and possibly the best tackle in his draft year, thought Vernon Gholston was overrated and that Revis was the best cb in his draft class....all draft "experts" get some wrong....but for my money no one is more thorough or professional than Mayock.

 

[NeonNinja]

I also remember Mayock calling Ryan Clady far and away the best tackle in his draft year, thought Vernon Gholston was overrated and that Revis was the best cb in his draft class....all draft "experts" get some wrong....but for my money no one is more thorough or professional than Mayock.

I agree with this.

 

[texbumthelife]

Miller played a good game today and he did nothing to change my mind regarding him in a 34. I think his best position is at WLB in 43.

He further solidified my belief that we are fools to pass up a playmaker of his potential if he is there, even if we have to create a hybrid position for him. He is exactly what this defense needs - A fast, rangy, versatile and explosive guy who isn't suited purely to one role (a.k.a Spencer, James, Brooking, Spears and essentially the entire front seven sans Rat and Ware).

In fact, Rat may be a perfect example and reasoning for why we should take Von Miller. He is extremely undersized for the NT position but, when put in a position to use his strengths as an athlete, he excels. Just like Von Miller would regardless of people's concerns over his size.

 

[dwmyers]

He further solidified my belief that we are fools to pass up a playmaker of his potential if he is there, even if we have to create a hybrid position for him. He is exactly what this defense needs - A fast, rangy, versatile and explosive guy who isn't suited purely to one role (a.k.a Spencer, James, Brooking, Spears and essentially the entire front seven sans Rat and Ware).

In fact, Rat may be a perfect example and reasoning for why we should take Von Miller. He is extremely undersized for the NT position but, when put in a position to use his strengths as an athlete, he excels. Just like Von Miller would regardless of people's concerns over his size.

It's *Lee Roy Jordan* not as *Lee Roy Jordan* if we haven't had *Lee Roy Jordan* had undersized *Lee Roy Jordan* but productive *Lee Roy Jordan* linebackers before.

Day Nguyen, for example, who was pretty good in Parcell's 34.

D-

 

[realtick]

I also remember Mayock calling Ryan Clady far and away the best value and possibly the best tackle in his draft year, thought Vernon Gholston was overrated and that Revis was the best cb in his draft class....all draft "experts" get some wrong....but for my money no one is more thorough or professional than Mayock.

Hmmm, that's interesting because he said this about Eric Wright (who came out the same year as Revis) "this kid has the most talent of any defensive player in the draft."

Not to mention he had Revis ranked #16 on his Draft board (April version prior to the draft) sandwiched between Jamaal Anderson and Ted Ginn.

Look, if you like him, you like him. I personally think he's a space alien that loves the sound of his own voice.

 

[CATCH17]

I also remember Mayock calling Ryan Clady far and away the best value and possibly the best tackle in his draft year, thought Vernon Gholston was overrated and that Revis was the best cb in his draft class....all draft "experts" get some wrong....but for my money no one is more thorough or professional than Mayock.

Agreed. It's impossible to be perfect. I may disagree with Mayock sometimes but I know nobody is perfect in that profession.


If so all those teams wouldn't have passed on Chris Johnson.

 

[realtick]

He further solidified my belief that we are fools to pass up a playmaker of his potential if he is there, even if we have to create a hybrid position for him. He is exactly what this defense needs - A fast, rangy, versatile and explosive guy who isn't suited purely to one role (a.k.a Spencer, James, Brooking, Spears and essentially the entire front seven sans Rat and Ware).

In fact, Rat may be a perfect example and reasoning for why we should take Von Miller. He is extremely undersized for the NT position but, when put in a position to use his strengths as an athlete, he excels. Just like Von Miller would regardless of people's concerns over his size.

Miller and Ratliff are completely different players. Ratliff plays in the trenches and has proven that he's a physical player.

Miller needs to play in space and is nowhere close to being a physical player.

I just sat and watched him get flattened by TE Lee Smith. And before anyone starts in with Lee Smith is the greatest blocking TE in the history of the Senior Bowl bit, understand that these are the kind of players, if not 10x better, that Von Miller will be facing in the NFL.

I don't think we should be developing a special hybrid position for Von Miller. D-Ware is the big-dog on the defense; things should revolve around him. Besides, the last time we tried to cater to a specific player's needs, we had the Roy Williams (safety) failure. Once teams realized we were pulling him out on obvious passing downs, they simply started targeting him on 1st and 2nd down.

We keep hearing about Miller's strengths and what we should do to maximize them. Miller's fans need a dose of reality: Von Miller has weaknesses

Namely, his relatively lean build/weight and the fact he isn't a physical player. Those things matter.

Good teams will attack you at your weakness. If I'm an opposing team and Miller is lined up outside on a 3-4, I'm going straight at him.

 

[speedkilz88]

Yeah it's not like Spencer is effective on 3rd down anyways.

I was speaking of the 4-3.

 

[texbumthelife]

Miller and Ratliff are completely different players. Ratliff plays in the trenches and has proven that he's a physical player.

Miller needs to play in space and is nowhere close to being a physical player.

I just sat and watched him get flattened by TE Lee Smith. And before anyone starts in with Lee Smith is the greatest blocking TE in the history of the Senior Bowl bit, understand that these are the kind of players, if not 10x better, that Von Miller will be facing in the NFL.

I don't think we should be developing a special hybrid position for Von Miller. D-Ware is the big-dog on the defense; things should revolve around him. Besides, the last time we tried to cater to a specific player's needs, we had the Roy Williams (safety) failure. Once teams realized we were pulling him out on obvious passing downs, they simply started targeting him on 1st and 2nd down.

We keep hearing about Miller's strengths and what we should do to maximize them. Miller's fans need a dose of reality: Von Miller has weaknesses

Namely, his relatively lean build/weight and the fact he isn't a physical player. Those things matter.

Good teams will attack you at your weakness. If I'm an opposing team and Miller is lined up outside on a 3-4, I'm going straight at him.

Ok, perhaps I should temper my positivity and expectations just a bit:

I do not think the kid will come without growing pains and/or stumbling blocks. I do not think the kid is the end all. I already stated he needs to get stronger in his lower body and core.

However, his upside is higher than just about anyone else we could realistically have a shot at with the number 9 pick. He truly has the potential to be one of those dynamic, once in ten year type of players. Are there better fits for this defense from day one? Maybe. Who knows - none of these kids have played a snap in the NFL. Is there really anyone else that has as much potential to be as dynamic a player as this kid? I don't think anyone at #9 is even close.

I understand your reservations, I am not a homer. I just prefer to look at the positives and the potential (along with production in his case) of players.

Maybe we understand each other better now?

Good teams will attack you at your weakness. If I'm an opposing team and Miller is lined up outside on a 3-4, I'm going straight at him.

Good teams/coaches find a way to get kids like Miller on the field and dictate to the offense. That argument goes both ways.

 

[realtick]

Ok, perhaps I should temper my positivity and expectations just a bit:

I do not think the kid will come without growing pains and/or stumbling blocks. I do not think the kid is the end all. I already stated he needs to get stronger in his lower body and core.

However, his upside is higher than just about anyone else we could realistically have a shot at with the number 9 pick. He truly has the potential to be one of those dynamic, once in ten year type of players. Are there better fits for this defense from day one? Maybe. Who knows - none of these kids have played a snap in the NFL. Is there really anyone else that has as much potential to be as dynamic a player as this kid? I don't think anyone at #9 is even close.

I understand your reservations, I am not a homer. I just prefer to look at the positives and the potential (along with production in his case) of players.

Maybe we understand each other better now?

Good teams/coaches find a way to get kids like Miller on the field and dictate to the offense. That argument goes both ways.

No, I don't think you were being a homer at all, and if you like the kid so be it. I won't try to sway you, I just don't see Miller as quite the player he's being hyped to be.

I think he's a prototype 43 WLBer; he fits the size, stature and skills-set. I should also say that I think he can be a very good one at that.

In college, Miller was able to be a mismatch at the position because of his athleticism. He racked up a bunch of sacks in a system that allowed him to basically do one job: rush the passer

Some folks seem to get enamored with his sack totals and think that it's simply an easy transition to the NFL and that he's a no-brainer. However, I just don't see a pass rusher with a diverse repitiore of pass rushing moves. I rarely see an inside move, counter, or bullrush; his speed either wins him the battle or not at all. Can all those things be coached? Perhaps, but you can't bank on it. D-Ware has basically been using the same limited amount of moves the past six or seven years and been successful at it. I think Ware has been able to get away with it because he's a bigger athlete that plays with both speed and power. I've always wondered how much more dangerous Ware could be if he developed a spin move.

I'm focused on his weaknesses/negatives because we all know/see his strengths.

I don't think he's a potential bust by any stretch, I just don't think he's the next big-thing.

 

[texbumthelife]

I think he's a prototype 43 WLBer; he fits the size, stature and skills-set. I should also say that I think he can be a very good one at that.

Won't argue with you on that at all. I think I was the first one on this forum to liken him to Derrick Brooks. He would make a tremendous WLB in an attacking defense.

In college, Miller was able to be a mismatch at the position because of his athleticism. He racked up a bunch of sacks in a system that allowed him to basically do one job: rush the passer

Unfortunately, this is generally true of almost every prolific college pass rusher, which is why so many flop. So, once again, I really can't argue.

People get enamored with his sack totals and think that it's simply an easy transition to the NFL. Problem, I just don't see a pass rusher with a diverse repitiore of rush techniques. I rarely see an inside move, counter, or bullrush; his speed either wins him the battle or not at all.

He used one of the best jab-step inside moves today I think I have ever seen. This is also something that can be coached and developed, as most players have to do, so I am not worried about this.

It's not just his sack totals though. It is his relentless motor. His explosiveness. His sideline to sideline ability. His nose for the football. His apparent cover ability.

I don't think he's a potential bust by any stretch, I just don't think he's the next big-thing.

I think everyone is a potential bust. Just like everyone has the potential to be an adequate starter. But not many have the upside this kid has.