Serious question about money for O. Linemen right now...

ZeroClub

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The fixing of the Dallas offensive line is a major component to the team's ability to win the final game of the year. They are fooling theirselves if they thing they will be able to acquire a pair of rookies, or even low performers in the free agency, and accomplish this. To get middle of the road to good talent today, you have to go the market price for it. You can attempt to generalize and candy coat the end product, but you get what you pay for.. and this IS the market now.
Another reality of the salary cap is that, for financial reasons, you are far better off if your 1st round pick is a starter.

If your team needs a new starter, it makes cap-sense to draft a highly talented rookie to fill that starting role.

There is nothing horribly unwise about having a highly talented rookie OL start for your team. It happens every year - even on the successful teams.
 

burmafrd

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Take a good look at just how many rookie linemen start for GOOD teams. Not talking about bottom feeders. The Packers started two rookies because they had no choice- and it worked out for them. But the number of ones who do really well their first season is VERY SMALL.
 

NoLuv4Jerry

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CCBoy;1403832 said:
Just consider back when Curt Flood decided that he didn't have anything to lose, and wanted to challenge the concept that a player couldn't have the right to have a say in where he went as a player...He decided that he would just buck the 'ol system, and demand a right to call where he as a player would go. At least some point in his career. Lo and behold, the concept of free agency was introduced into the sporting level at the professional point.

This had dramatic affects upon the NFL and the professional sports industry...because Mr. Flood decided that he had the right.

Well, things evolved since that time, as Jerry Jones fought to bring equality into the dealings of the NFL...and the cap era was launched. Like it or not, it has brought about the ability of a well managed organization to have a relatively short turn around to achieve success.

Here, although-the Cowboys have dragged their feet in futility for a period of some ten plus years.

Prior to this past season, the Union backed negotiations for the Labor Agreement, won a ton of positives for the player...well, those hard fought and long in coming opportunities are starting to find fruition in the free agency this year.

What we are seeing now, is there is NO position that is limited by tradition or league tendencies, from being able to command a top end level of the market place. Fullbacks, guards, and safeties have worked their way up to the top end levels of the pay spectrum. This is a no turning back point for the NFL.

Now, the Cowboys can own up to the current market demands, or once again adapt slowly, and lose out on the opportunities of a whole franchise. Now the market has changed, and they had better get wise to it's demands and affects on franchise responses. Here, if Jerry is not very astute in possibilities, his franchise will head towards something of a 'black-hole' in tendency, and again start losing the advantages that it has just sacrificed and built up over the past four years.

The fixing of the Dallas offensive line is a major component to the team's ability to win the final game of the year. They are fooling theirselves if they thing they will be able to acquire a pair of rookies, or even low performers in the free agency, and accomplish this. To get middle of the road to good talent today, you have to go the market price for it. You can attempt to generalize and candy coat the end product, but you get what you pay for.. and this IS the market now.

Getting both Colombo and Davis is not the top of the talent pool, but they are both significant enough in affect to the whole team, to warrant their immediate signing as well as the negotiated contracts that can make them doable, even at the current market levels....the ball is in Dallas' court. The players are merely matching the demands that have escalated due to team participation, over the past four seasons.

When even New England is joining the bandwagon effort at acquiring expensive talent, the Cowboys better start matching efforts, or they again will merely fall behind...

...don't kid yourself.
beautiful post....you know I am board on this...especiall with the point about "fooling ourselves"...the game starts there folks...not with blitzning LBers and Cover FS...it starts with the OL...and we are mediocre because our line is mediocre...a great line can make an average RB very good...which makes you a good runnng team...which allows you to control the ENTIRE game...now I am not saying that I don't believe in pressure defense or a high scoring offense...but what I am saying is that BEFORE we add ANOTHER piece to the secondary...or before we add another LBer....or before we add another defensive player in general....the OL must be addressed or NONE of it will matter
 

Cbz40

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burmafrd;1403860 said:
Take a good look at just how many rookie linemen start for GOOD teams. Not talking about bottom feeders. The Packers started two rookies because they had no choice- and it worked out for them. But the number of ones who do really well their first season is VERY SMALL.


Ummmmmm......maybe we should move our War Room to Vegas for this crap shoot.
 

ZeroClub

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burmafrd;1403860 said:
Take a good look at just how many rookie linemen start for GOOD teams. Not talking about bottom feeders. The Packers started two rookies because they had no choice- and it worked out for them. But the number of ones who do really well their first season is VERY SMALL.
Are you suggesting that a disproportionately smaller percentage of high draft choice rookie OLs start (as compared high draft choice rookies who play other positions)?

Life is a crap shoot.

Heck, the Cowboys could go out right now and make all of us fans happy by signing a free agent Pro Bowl guard.

But who is to say that that this signee wouldn't get hurt on a hotel treadmill or something?

Stranger things have happened.

All of this player acquisition stuff is a gamble. You play your money and you take your chances.....
 

ZeroClub

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On the other hand, the Cowboys might end up signing L. Davis.

:)
 

burmafrd

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Point is that most offensive linemen need more time to figure out the NFL then anyone other then QBs. take a good look at the last 3 years of O linemen picks and count how many of the first and second round picks STARTED their rookie year.
 

big dog cowboy

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burmafrd;1403929 said:
Point is that most offensive linemen need more time to figure out the NFL then anyone other then QBs.
So McQ and Proctor should not be counted on this year?
 

CCBoy

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to say that pedigree as well as opportunity does not affect the careers of offensive linemen, could be an understatement of sorts....

Procter was kept around by Parcells, who liked his temperament as well as potential to be a 'future' player. Procter is hitting his ceiling point as to retention without some on the field success. Additionally with Procter, he was tried at center and asked to develop those skills. Without any talk or reference of Proctor as a backup at center, I presently assume that he is a stronger guard than center prospect.

For a backup center, the Cowboys added to the roster-Troy Dariek, 6-5 and 310. He was four years of professional experience. Also, both Procter
and Joe Berger are at their third year in the league. This is the point that it is considered their 'coming-out' party. This off season and camp, should prove to be very intense in the confrontation between the offensive and defensive sides of the ball.

Allow me to point out a size indication in the interior of the Dallas offensive line:

Center

Andre Gurode 6-4 312
Al Johnson 6-5 311
Troy Dariek 6-5 310

Guard

Joe Berger 6-5 305
Kyle Kosier 6-5 305
Cory Procter 6-4 305
Marco Rivera 6-4 309

If Dallas is indeed targeting Leonard Davis for guard, it will be a change in direction, for the interior line's MO.....
 

big dog cowboy

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It's Trey not Troy. NFL.com lists him as a tackle but surprising to me he is listed as a guard on Yahoo. He has 18 career starts.
 

tunahelper

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newlander;1402298 said:
What the 'F' is going on? Hutchinson is an animal. Easily the best guard in the league. That's why Minny spent 49 mil on him. But Dockery and Steinbach? You've got to be kidding me. I hope the midget in DC does give Davis big money. It will turn out just like all the rest of their signings. :laugh1:

Over the last two years I have focused on Hutchinson when his team is playing.
Only exception being if he was playing the Boys.
I have not seen dominate the line of scrimmage?
He does his job no doubt, but he doesnt maul anyone like LA used too.
While he is a good OG, I think many are playing at his level.
 

CCBoy

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thanks for pointing out the mis-spelling of another's name. I had written what had been printed, as I keep a folder of names and such, so that I don't have too many brain infarctions for you guys to 'deal' with...noted.

I carried Andre Gurode, for years, as Andres Gurode, the way I first read his name when he was being drafted....LOL.

Spelling aside, do you think that Dallas will still head towards an offensive tackle and offensive guard high in the draft, just to build a much stronger base level of talent at the position?

...by the way, did you catch that I spelled Procter's name correctly?
 

big dog cowboy

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CCBoy;1405507 said:
Spelling aside, do you think that Dallas will still head towards an offensive tackle and offensive guard high in the draft, just to build a much stronger base level of talent at the position?

...by the way, did you catch that I spelled Procter's name correctly?
Yes (but not at 22) and yes.
 

Hostile

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Let me just say this about the money paid to Davis today. Next year someone will get more. At some point in time before thsi ever becomes a cap issue it will look like a bargain because the then current contracts will look even more outrageous.

It's called supply and demand. Simple economics tells you that when other O-linemen are getting paid, all of them will. We either made a move to fix the OL, or we griped all season about no O-line. I'm not crazy about Leonard Davis, but I can figure out the better of those 2 options.
 

mmillman

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he said he damaged his back right after signing. Maybe he did and maybe he didn't but Wahle was the better and younger player Jones just went cheaper and got burned.
 

Vintage

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mmillman;1405674 said:
he said he damaged his back right after signing. Maybe he did and maybe he didn't but Wahle was the better and younger player Jones just went cheaper and got burned.

You are right.

Its Jerry's fault Wahle wanted to play for Carolina.
 

jrumann59

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mmillman;1405674 said:
he said he damaged his back right after signing. Maybe he did and maybe he didn't but Wahle was the better and younger player Jones just went cheaper and got burned.

Wahle didn't want to be here, he lives in NC area.
 
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