Skins release a ton of guys

[Randy White]

They get rid of their salaries, but any prorated bonus that already were paid will remain allocated to those seasons.

The NFL and NFLPA might decide to eliminate those charges if they negotiate a new cap in 2011, but I doubt the owners would want to do that.

So they would eliminate the accelerated pro-rated version of the cap, but leave the per year hit of the contract ?

Wouldn't make sense because that's actually hurting their team ( even if they want to use the lack of cap space as an excuse not to pay the players ) and assuming the new cap would be strict, it could nearly cripple them.

Delhome has been cut and there's no way the Panthers can absorve an accelerated hit to their cap if the owners grandfather his contract. They'd have a hard time trying to do anything even if they keep it at the per year basis.

 

[Randy White]

Oh wow. I thought that teams would cut overpriced vets this year to get rid of their salaries. Interesting to see that's not the case.

No, that's actually what they're doing. Another big salaried player just bit the dust.

That means this year's FA is going to be really thin.

The FA who's contract expired, absolutely. Most of them were players who fell under the 6 year rule. However, the FA market made up of players who's contract have been cut is going to be crowded. Lots of players are going to be out there..

and already are.

 

[Randy White]

I wouldn't have been shocked to see Haynesworth as well. What a stupid contract.

Too much money. We're talking about what ? nearly 50 million dollars guaranteed overall ?

That's alot of dough to give up on after just 1 year.

 

[AdamJT13]

So they would eliminate the accelerated pro-rated version of the cap, but leave the per year hit of the contract ?

No, they would just leave the prorated charges for any players cut during the 2010 season as they are. They could keep acceleration in capped seasons, just like in the current CBA.

Wouldn't make sense because that's actually hurting their team ( even if they want to use the lack of cap space as an excuse not to pay the players ) and assuming the new cap would be strict, it could nearly cripple them.

No, it wouldn't. And the next cap isn't going to be lower than the current one.

You have to realize, the only teams that would be hurt at all (not crippled) are those who made bad decisions. You think other owners are going to let the foolish ones off the hook for free? There's no way.

Delhome has been cut and there's no way the Panthers can absorve an accelerated hit to their cap if the owners grandfather his contract. They'd have a hard time trying to do anything even if they keep it at the per year basis.

You think $4 million in dead money is going to be a problem? We just carried more than twice that for Terrell Owens alone, plus more than $10 million for other guys, and we still finished the season with unused cap room.

 

[the truth of it all]

idk this is bad for us IMO. Shanny is running the show danny probably is just shutting up and doing what he says. shanny and danny.. ha.

but seriously those players needed to get released.. now if we can just get rid of hamlin , roy will , sensabaugh. we would be riding pretty.

 

[Randy White]

No, they would just leave the prorated charges for any players cut during the 2010 season as they are. They could keep acceleration in capped seasons, just like in the current CBA.

So, for example, let's say they come to an agreement starting in 2011 and they grandfather in all this contracts. The contracts that are cut today could accelerate ( you know I'm talking about the bonus part ) to the 2011 season ? IN other words, provided that they use 2010 portion, whatever is left over would count towards the 2011 cap ?

No, it wouldn't. And the next cap isn't going to be lower than the current one.

I don't know about that. I hope not, I really don't, because that would put a severe burden on teams like Dallas who have talented rosters and the big contracts are going to start kicking in soon.

However, I just don't see small market teams owners accepting a similar cap that exists today unless the major market team owners make major concessions on non-share revenues. Would the major market owners cave in ?

You have to realize, the only teams that would be hurt at all (not crippled) are those who made bad decisions. You think other owners are going to let the foolish ones off the hook for free? There's no way.

But just look at who's doing the cutting of major salaries so far. Carolina ( small market owner ), Arizona ( small market owner ), Cincinnati ( small market owner ). I expect teams like Oakland and Jacksonville, among others ( Green Bay ? ) to follow. Those guys could be in trouble if all this contracts get accelerated to one year.

You think $4 million in dead money is going to be a problem? We just carried more than twice that for Terrell Owens alone, plus more than $10 million for other guys, and we still finished the season with unused cap room.

4 millions ? How did you came up with that figure ? They still owe Delholme over 12 million dollars in guaranteed monies that they haven't paid him yet, according to BSPN. Even if they count this year, their cap hit would be well over 10 million dollars for him alone in 2011, right ?

 

[Randy White]

check this part out:

By Darin Gantt and Charles Chandler - Staff writers

CHARLOTTE -- Despite their intense loyalty to Jake Delhomme over the years, including when his critics were screaming loudest, the Carolina Panthers made the painful move Thursday night to cut ties with one of their signature players and release their veteran quarterback.

Delhomme's agent, Rick Smith, confirmed Thursday night that the move had taken place, and that a press conference would be held Friday to announce his release. Team officials offered no comment Thursday night, and Delhomme didn't return messages.

The Panthers are still on the hook for nearly $13 million in guaranteed money from the contract extension they gave him last spring, but making the move now keeps them from suffering any salary cap consequences because the NFL has entered into an uncapped year.

In the short term, the move clears the way for Matt Moore to take over as the starter, after he was given the highest restricted free agent tender Wednesday.

It also opens the door for more speculation for other quarterback moves, as they'll obviously be in the market for at least one in free agency and/or the draft.

Delhomme, 35, who quarterbacked the Panthers to a Super Bowl berth and two NFC Championship Games, fell off precipitously from his previous level of play in 2009.

His demise began with a disastrous six-turnover performance against Arizona in the 2008 playoffs, and remained inconsistent during the '09 season. Starting with a five-turnover outing against Philadelphia in the opener, his season never really improved.

He threw a career high 18 interceptions last year, despite missing the last five games with a broken middle finger. That allowed Moore to become a late-season hero, and create the momentum that led to this decision.

Delhomme had a 4-7 record as a starter. Moore matched Delhomme's number of wins during the final five games.

Despite his '09 meltdown, Delhomme still leaves the Panthers with every significant franchise passing record, and a 58-40 record, including the playoffs.

However, like many other decisions the team's making, this one comes down to money.

They can cut him now with no salary cap ramifications - since there is no salary cap after midnight - but they'd still owe him $12.675 million based on guarantees built into the deal his signed last April as part of their effort to clear cap room to keep Julius Peppers.

He'd be owed $4.16 million in 2010, $5.12 million in 2011 and $3.4 million in 2012, with the contract written to guarantee those amounts for skill or injury.

It would, however, clear the books of his charges if a cap was re-instituted at a later date.

It also keeps them from paying the $10.14 million bonus he was set to receive later this spring - in effect breaking the financial hit into three smaller chunks.

http://www.newsobserver.com/2010/03/04/371139/panthers-cut-delhomme.html

 

[the kid 05]

I think Smoot can still play.

Danny got touched by an angel with this uncapped year. He simply gets to shed a bunch of fat for nothing.

hes burnt toast sr if Hall is burnt toast.

 

[AdamJT13]

So, for example, let's say they come to an agreement starting in 2011 and they grandfather in all this contracts. The contracts that are cut today could accelerate ( you know I'm talking about the bonus part ) to the 2011 season ? IN other words, provided that they use 2010 portion, whatever is left over would count towards the 2011 cap ?

No, for any players cut between today and June 1 this year, their prorations will not accelerate at all. Whatever their proration for 2011 was will remain in 2011, and the same for 2012 and beyond.

I don't know about that. I hope not, I really don't, because that would put a severe burden on teams like Dallas who have talented rosters and the big contracts are going to start kicking in soon.

However, I just don't see small market teams owners accepting a similar cap that exists today unless the major market team owners make major concessions on non-share revenues. Would the major market owners cave in ?

Nobody is going to "cave in" on anything. If the cap returns in 2011, it won't be any lower than the 2009 cap. It might not be much higher, either, but the revenues will continue to grow. And that's how you'll end up with the players getting a smaller percentage but not less money. The cap likely won't grow as much as revenues until the percentages get to where the owners want them (assuming they win that battle in the negotiations).

4 millions ? How did you came up with that figure ? They still owe Delholme over 12 million dollars in guaranteed monies that they haven't paid him yet, according to BSPN. Even if they count this year, their cap hit would be well over 10 million dollars for him alone in 2011, right ?

Again, his money won't accelerate into 2010 or 2011. It stays on the books in the seasons it already was being charged against.

Edit: I just checked Delhomme's contract. The money he was owed in guaranteed salaries must be paid as a lump sum (in present dollars) at the time of his release, so it is not prorated at all. His prorated bonus amount that already was paid will count $625,000 in each of 2010, 2011, 2012 and 2013. That will not accelerate.

 

[Skinsmaniac]

Nobody is going to "cave in" on anything. If the cap returns in 2011, it won't be any lower than the 2009 cap. It might not be much higher, either, but the revenues will continue to grow. And that's how you'll end up with the players getting a smaller percentage but not less money. The cap likely won't grow as much as revenues until the percentages get to where the owners want them (assuming they win that battle in the negotiations)

I'm not sure the owners are willing to bank on that. The tv deals are already loss leaders for the networks. Add in the problems in Detroit and the sale of Anheiseur-Busch, and I think the networks are going to expect fewer advertising dollars which may mean smaller tv deals in the future. Networks are going to learn from NBC's problems with the winter olympics. Also throw in that the supply of public financing for stadiums is going to dwindle since there are already so many new stadiums, and local and state budgets are in poor shape. Finally, expect a slow recovery due to slack in the housing and labor markets, and I would be very surprised if revenues were higher in five years than they are right now.

 

[AdamJT13]

It would, however, clear the books of his charges if a cap was re-instituted at a later date.

That is incorrect. His charges are not cleared off the books for 2011 through 2013.

 

[AdamJT13]

I'm not sure the owners are willing to bank on that. The tv deals are already loss leaders for the networks. Add in the problems in Detroit and the sale of Anheiseur-Busch, and I think the networks are going to expect fewer advertising dollars which may mean smaller tv deals in the future. Networks are going to learn from NBC's problems with the winter olympics. Also throw in that the supply of public financing for stadiums is going to dwindle since there are already so many new stadiums, and local and state budgets are in poor shape. Finally, expect a slow recovery due to slack in the housing and labor markets, and I would be very surprised if revenues were higher in five years than they are right now.

I don't agree with that. You might see slower growth, but I'm sure that revenues will still grow. The TV network deals were extended through 2013 for a price that increases each season. DirecTV's extension for 2011 through 2014 will pay 30 percent more than it currently does (from $700 million per season to $1 billion per season). In the 2008 season, in a supposedly weak economy, revenues still grew by 7 percent.

That's not to mention that the current CBA stipulates that the salary cap can never be less than it was in the previous year unless player costs exceeded a certain percentage of the revenues beyond the percentage that the players are guaranteed. I'm sure the next CBA with a cap would include similar language.

 

[Randy White]

No, for any players cut between today and June 1 this year, their prorations will not accelerate at all. Whatever their proration for 2011 was will remain in 2011, and the same for 2012 and beyond.

I " think " I know what you mean by this, but I don't understand it fully. I'll get back to this in just a bit .

Nobody is going to "cave in" on anything. If the cap returns in 2011, it won't be any lower than the 2009 cap. It might not be much higher, either, but the revenues will continue to grow. And that's how you'll end up with the players getting a smaller percentage but not less money. The cap likely won't grow as much as revenues until the percentages get to where the owners want them (assuming they win that battle in the negotiations).

Ok, but that's assuming the cap returns as it is, which, imo, is a big assumption. If the owners don't lock the players out next season, it would most probably be because there's a new CBA in place. If there's a new CBA in place, I doubt it very much that the cap within the CBA will be similar ( in terms of numbers ) to the current one. I just don't think small market owners would stand for that. Especially with the minimum rule that the current cap has.

I think the small market teams' goal is a much stricter cap, most probably will ask for no minimum rule, but would be willing to give that up if the cap is strict enough.

Again, his money won't accelerate into 2010 or 2011. It stays on the books in the seasons it already was being charged against.

Edit: I just checked Delhomme's contract. The money he was owed in guaranteed salaries must be paid as a lump sum (in present dollars) at the time of his release, so it is not prorated at all. His prorated bonus amount that already was paid will count $625,000 in each of 2010, 2011, 2012 and 2013. That will not accelerate.

I think I got it ( maybe ). Because Delhomme's guaranteed salary must be paid as a lump sum, in present dollar, at the time of his release, which is 2010, the proration trigger doesn't kick in because there is no cap in 2010. However, his signing bonus, which was already paid to him in 2009, which is a capped year, will be prorated and counted gainst ( which is where you got the 4 million figure from ) when the new CBA starts with a new cap. ( As long as the owners agree to this provision, of course. ) Am I close ?

I see where you're coming from.

We just disagree on how the new cap is going to be then.

 

[jterrell]

this would be scary if they weren't going to overpay julius peppers thus continuing the trend of signing declining players to massive deals.

 

[InmanRoshi]

Randle El just disappeared after signing there. I don't know if he quit after signing the big contract or what.

He was a 40 catch, 400 yard, 1 TD season guy in Pittsburgh.

He was never more than a #3 WR to begin with, Snyder just paid him like a #1.

 

[theebs]

He was a 40 catch, 400 yard, 1 TD season guy in Pittsburgh.

He was never more than a #3 WR to begin with, Snyder just paid him like a #1.

That 2006 free agent class the Commanders brought in along with the 700 page playbook of Al Saunders is one of the sorriest groups in any offseason ever.

It is tragically bad.

That trade for tj duckett was just icing on the cake that year.

Joe gibbs is a tremendous coach, I can not believe he ever got involved with Dan Snyder and vinny cerrato. What a shame.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

That 2006 free agent class the Commanders brought in along with the 700 page playbook of Al Saunders is one of the sorriest groups in any offseason ever.

It is tragically bad.

That trade for tj duckett was just icing on the cake that year.

Joe gibbs is a tremendous coach, I can not believe he ever got involved with Dan Snyder and vinny cerrato. What a shame.

I personally lost a lot of respect for Gibbs as a person and as a coach in Gibbs II. Lots of whining about the refs and that costing them games, some times of total buffoonery out there with terrible clock management, boneheaded playcalling, etc. His half hearted shaking of Parcells' hands after a loss.

It seemed to me that Gibbs thought that getting back into the NFL again was going to be relatively easy and he didn't realize the advantages he truly had in his first run with Jack Kent Cooke almost out-buying the rest of the league for talent. Looking back at that you could see that was a foolish decision and you could see how he could make another foolish decision by still working with Cerrato (although I don't think Cerrato was the main problem).

I think Shanny is a bright guy and one of the best gameplanners in football, but he again is a guy that struggled a lot with personnel decisions. He could get really great players from nowhere, but then had the habit of making very bad decisions on players which can negate all of the good work you've done with the others. Bruce Allen's drafting with Tampa netted him ONE Pro Bowler in the bunch.

IIRC the 2006 free agent/trade class consisted of:

Archuleta
Brandon Lloyd
Randle El
Andre Carter
Duckett
Todd Collins

Any others I'm missing?






YAKUZA

 

[Bob Sacamano]

And yet another thread gets turned into a Roy Williams truth-fest...

fify.

 

[InmanRoshi]

That 2006 free agent class the Commanders brought in along with the 700 page playbook of Al Saunders is one of the sorriest groups in any offseason ever.

It is tragically bad.

That trade for tj duckett was just icing on the cake that year.

Yeah, it's hard to think of an offseason by an NFL franchise that was filled with more EPIC FAIL than that one. Bad FA signings, bad coaching hires, bad trades, bad scheme/philosophy changes ... up and down the board. I think that was also the year e they paid a ridiculous price to trade up in the draft because they fell in love with Rocky McIntosh (who they just low tendered) and they didn't have any draft picks that year to draft him.