Snyder Says Commanders name will never change

[Califan007]

For once Lavar Arrington had a good point on his show yesterday.

If you were to walk in an airport today yelling "Commanders, Commanders, Commanders!" people would look at you wondering "why on earth is this guy talking about the Washington Commanders in May? Its not even football season"

If you were to walk in an airport today yelling "N WORD, N WORD, N WORD" you will probably get your kicked, or at best be asked to leave the premises.

Yep...no matter how much some may want to equate "Commander" with offensive racial slurs like the "N word", they are apples and oranges. "But it identifies a race by the color of their skin!!" seems to be the default battle cry...like if you can't actually bring anything historically and socially factual to the table, you at least always have that to fall back on.

Quick question for anyone who wants to answer: As a black man, should I be more offended being called "Black", or being called "African American" when none of my ancestors came from Africa, and it's only assumed they did because of my skin color?

 

[Idgit]

Again...is being called "white", "black" or a "person of color" offensive?

And I prefer to describe it as a factual and analytical assessment of the term "Commander" rather than an anecdotal and emotional one.

I'm sure you do.

It's not calling someone 'white' or 'black'. It's 'red-skin'. White-skin or black-skin would be similarly offensive, yes.

However you prefer to rationalize it, the fact is that if people are offended by a term it is, by definition, offensive. Now, some people are going to be offended by any term, so it's a sliding scale. You'd probably have to agree that your team name is considered the most offensive name in the NFL, and by a wide margin. If that's ok with you, then there's not really much to talk about. But your carefully articulated argument to the contrary doesn't disprove the basic fact that many native Americans--and many Americans of other descent--find your team name offensive. They may not be a majority, but that doesn't mean that the offense is necessarily all in their heads.

 

[NIBGoldenchild]

http://http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/languagelog/archives/002961.html

http://neddybee.blogspot.com/2005/04/Commanders-and-war-paint.html

Above are more links that talk about the origin of the word, and the misconceptions and outright lies that have come forth since it was created. Along with the video I linked in a previous post, and Califan007's eloquent addition, it's pretty much a given that the word is only offensive to those who are ignorant of it's meaning or easily offended.

 

[ElGatoGrande]

http://http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/languagelog/archives/002961.html

http://neddybee.blogspot.com/2005/04/Commanders-and-war-paint.html

Above are more links that talk about the origin of the word, and the misconceptions and outright lies that have come forth since it was created. Along with the video I linked in a previous post, and Califan007's eloquent addition, it's pretty much a given that the word is only offensive to those who are ignorant of it's meaning or easily offended.

Schooled!!

 

[DFWJC]

Regardless of what anyone says, that name will 100% for sure change some day.
It may or may not be while Danny boy is owner, but it will have to go (for right or wrong) one of these days.

This is not a statement on what the term means or it's intent. It's more of a statement of the world we live in now and in the future.

 

[NIBGoldenchild]

Not to mention the mascot on the helment just happens to be a Native American sans war paint. Which means that when the mascot was chosen the war paint aspect wasn't triggered by the name "Commander", just the Native American.

I don't know why I didn't see this earlier. It's interesting you bring up the Native American man on the helmet. A Native American Chief actually petitioned the team to have that logo replace the red R. The team liked the idea and asked this chief for a number of potential improvements, and the current helmet logo was chosen.

I guess no one told him he was supposed to be offended.

http://helenair.com/news/tribal-leader-rubbed-elbows-with-elite/article_cdd827b1-877b-5c63-b8fb-0a9d91d03383.html

Another eye-opening Wetzel accomplishment was his idea to put the head of an Indian chief on the helmets of the Washington Commanders.

"Back then, (in the 1960s) there was only the letter "R" on the helmet, so I requested a few pictures to be sent down from my reservation of Indian chiefs," Wetzel explained.

Wetzel said he walked into the office of the Washington Commanders and said, "I came here to see you guys about seeing a real Indian on the helmets."

He said a person told him that they would look over his proposal and consider it.

After the team finally picked his idea, he said, he felt really proud -- and has ever since -- seeing the Indian chief on the helmet.

I hope no one is offended that his Indian name is "Blackie", God forbid someone gets their feelings hurt about a name he was proud of.

 

[MartinRamone]

They shouldnt change it, people will always find a reason to be offended.

 

[Risen Star]

Good for him. Glad to hear it.

The bottom line is you'd have to be completely brain dead to think they decided to name themselves a negative term. Obviously that wasn't the intent. It's the reverse in fact. To honor.

Those that are offended by it need to deal with it. That's life. Your offense offends me.

They are the Washington Commanders. Our rival. Today's PC society of whiny victims shouldn't be allowed to change that.

 

[ghst187]

Furthermore, Ms. Blackhorse recently made an appearance on a local radio station. She stated even if the team changed their names to the Washington Warriors, she would still find the name to be offensive and racist. When the host asked her to elaborate, she stated that any mascot based off someone's culture is offensive to her. Although she has a right to her opinion, it goes without saying she is in a huge minority with her logic.

She should probably get over herself, I'm offended that she's ignorant and offended by this..... and that she probably votes.
I think the debate is really really ridiculous....HOWEVER....if it causes a ton of pain to that franchise I'm all for it!

 

[Hoofbite]

I don't know why I didn't see this earlier. It's interesting you bring up the Native American man on the helmet. A Native American Chief actually petitioned the team to have that logo replace the red R. The team liked the idea and asked this chief for a number of potential improvements, and the current helmet logo was chosen.

I guess no one told him he was supposed to be offended.

http://helenair.com/news/tribal-leader-rubbed-elbows-with-elite/article_cdd827b1-877b-5c63-b8fb-0a9d91d03383.html

I hope no one is offended that his Indian name is "Blackie", God forbid someone gets their feelings hurt about a name he was proud of.

You missed the point entirely. How or why it was chosen wasn't what I was going for. The fact it was chosen to be a Native American WITHOUT face paint is evidence that nobody thinks of the term as referring to face paint.

The origin of the word is meaningless because nobody associates it with face paint on any sort of scale. I would say the only one's who do are either Native American historians (provided thats even the true origin of it) or Commander fans who are trying to find some sort of justification for the name. I'd wager the only reason you can even cite the face paint aspect is because you googled the origin of the term.

It is what it is. Personally you'd be better off just saying that you don't think it's offensive instead of trying to argue that the implied use today is the exact same as it was when it was first coined.

 

[RastaRocket]

I agree with the Skins fan on this issue. He is 100% correct about the history of the name.

Smithsonian Senior Linguist Ives Goddard did all the research, and I trust that guy over any butthurt interwebs people.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/10/02/AR2005100201139.html

 

[Szczepanik]

I don't want them to change their name. They are our biggest rival, and granted that on the football field I wish for them to be miserable, I don't want them to be miserable off of the field.

Even though it might be derogatory in a field of context, I view it as an honoring of the indigenous people of the land before D.C was constructed.

If we want to pick apart and analyze team names here we can do that too many teams. Ok the Raiders? Who pillaged, raped, caused chaos, and were seen as an immoral group of rebels? America is too nit picky about a lot of things now. As a country we are gaining a lot of headway into equality for all people, which I agree with. However let us not over analyze and turn everything into a racial debate in the process.

 

[Red Dragon]

For once Lavar Arrington had a good point on his show yesterday.

If you were to walk in an airport today yelling "Commanders, Commanders, Commanders!" people would look at you wondering "why on earth is this guy talking about the Washington Commanders in May? Its not even football season"

If you were to walk in an airport today yelling "N WORD, N WORD, N WORD" you will probably get your kicked, or at best be asked to leave the premises.

But that may be simply because people have become accustomed to it over time, though.


If there were a sports team that were called the "(N word)s" and had been around for decades, chances are people wouldn't consider the N word offensive any longer either.


I guess the reasoning can go both ways.

 

[Risen Star]

But that may be simply because people have become accustomed to it over time, though.


If there were a sports team that were called the "(N word)s" and had been around for decades, chances are people wouldn't consider the N word offensive any longer either.


I guess the reasoning can go both ways.

Wouldn't that be awful if we changed people's perception of a once highly offensive term? We'd have to find something else to be offended about.

 

[burmafrd]

look at all the sound and fury directed at something of so little importance.

Political Correctness

That is all it is and nothing else.

 

[irishline]

http://http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/languagelog/archives/002961.html

http://neddybee.blogspot.com/2005/04/Commanders-and-war-paint.html

Above are more links that talk about the origin of the word, and the misconceptions and outright lies that have come forth since it was created. Along with the video I linked in a previous post, and Califan007's eloquent addition, it's pretty much a given that the word is only offensive to those who are ignorant of it's meaning or easily offended.

The origins of the "N word" were not meant to be racist or offensive either. The word was created in 1574 as a mixture of French and Spanish words to simply mean someone was "dark skinned". Oxford English Reference edition stated the word "was not always considered derogatory, because it then denoted "black-skinned", a common Anglophone usage." Other references (such as linked below) state similar beginnings for the phrase.

Simply put, to base current meaning of a word off of its origin is absolutely meaningless.

http://www.phrases.org.uk/bulletin_board/40/messages/250.html

Additionally if you search the term "Commanders definition", every major reference there lists the word as offensive. Does this mean all the people who write or follow these references (including Oxford which you cited) are "ignorant of it's meaning or easily offended"?

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Commanders
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/Commander
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Commander
http://oxforddictionaries.com/us/definition/american_english/Commander
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Commander

While I personally do not think the Commander name should be changed, I find your constant blind backing of the word (without any regard to what it may or may not mean to someone I clearly see you have no understanding of, or real desire to) to be quite disturbing.

 

[burmafrd]

The origins of the "N word" were not meant to be racist or offensive either. The word was created in 1574 as a mixture of French and Spanish words to simply mean someone was "dark skinned". Oxford English Reference edition stated the word "was not always considered derogatory, because it then denoted "black-skinned", a common Anglophone usage." Other references (such as linked below) state similar beginnings for the phrase.

Simply put, to base current meaning of a word off of its origin is absolutely meaningless.

http://www.phrases.org.uk/bulletin_board/40/messages/250.html

Additionally if you search the term "Commanders definition", every major reference there lists the word as offensive. Does this mean all the people who write or follow these references (including Oxford which you cited) are "ignorant of it's meaning or easily offended"?

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Commanders
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/Commander
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Commander
http://oxforddictionaries.com/us/definition/american_english/Commander
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Commander

While I personally do not think the Commander name should be changed, I find your constant blind backing of the word (without any regard to what it may or may not mean to someone I clearly see you have no understanding of, or real desire to) to be quite disturbing.

you spent all this time on something of so little importance. Why don't you think about that?

 

[Idgit]

FWIW, irishline, I thought yours was a thorough and intelligent post. burmafrd's dismissing it rather than engaging it should tell you something, at any rate.

 

[SilverStarCowboy]

Ignorant are those who piss into it.

As society changes "Cowboys" could be considered as bad next, what then?


At this rate every name in the League could be questioned at some time in History it has and will.


It's ridiculous to say the least, Commanders means Pride among the Natives themselves, even if it wasn't the majority (which it is) in your estimation we should strip that pride away like we did the Native American land and their legacy.


Concluding that the exact same delusional thoughts on this issue of banning a respectable and prideful name of a deserving people, are the only ones urinating on themselves as their agenda is turning a faint yellow.
.

 

[Wolfpack]

Good for Little Dan, stand up for your team and your company. I'd do the same. I grew up loving the Cleveland Indians and its not much different.