Sobering read - NFL and CTE

[diefree666]

Oh I can handle pretty much everything, my friend...including you're fallacious and faulty logic.

Based on your absolutist view of the world, then, let me paint you a scenario: say you get into a good-paying but "potentially treacherous" job in construction, for example. You know going in that the role is fraught with danger...dudes have broken bones, fallen from high places and been disabled, and even killed in that line of work. And of course you know this going in and choose to do it anyways (buyer beware and taking FULL PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY). NOW let's say that the construction company for years took on projects where they held back information about some OTHER key risk involved...one of a more clandestine nature, such as asbestos exposure. They had done study after study on the issue and knew very much about this particular risk involved in exposing workers to this contagion but they said/did nothing...or worse yet they downplayed it when you began complaining of mysterious symptoms simply saying "quit your belly aching and get back in there and sacrifice for the sake of the company...you big coward, you don't hear your co-workers complaining!" Or something to that effect...later on in life you realize your fate of living out the rest of your days in chronic illness...an invalid destined to die a premature death. This is tantamount to the situation we're discussing now concerning the league and what they have apparently willfully hidden from the players for MANY years. Sure, there are many risks about the vocation that are self-evident and plain to see, but there may be something else much more sinister below the surface that the league has only begun to acknowledge as to avoid responsibility - and that is the LEAGUE's personal responsibility and not solely the individual's.

Unless you're of the asinine belief that the individual in my scenario should've been able to detect the contagions, too...smh.

Oh...and former PLAYERS completely disagree with you, too.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/03/29/health/nfl-cte-scroggins-lawsuit/index.html

And since the league has already paid some 3/4 of a billion dollars in settlements out over this issue (not even including the institutional abuses over pain killers and other misdeeds carried out on players), apparently the personal responsibility argument isn't working out too well for the NFL, either...smh again.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap10...-agree-to-765m-settlement-in-concussions-suit

to be brutally bunt you are full of crap. And not worth any more time. Go live in your fantasy world.

 

[robbieruff]

Well they did do that but that's in the past.
I think it is accumulated and there Are
Other factor's that would make a player
More susceptible to having it.
Drugs alcohol peds nutrition etc may
all play a part.
Plus they are only looking at football
Player brains for cte and they need
to look at a variety of brains.

The have looked at a variety of brains. There have beeb controlled studies football exceeds by a wide margin.

 

[robbieruff]

to be brutally bunt you are full of crap. And not worth any more time. Go live in your fantasy world.

Did u bunt me down the 3rd or 1st base line? I bought we were talking football????

 

[erod]

Oh so you blame explosion of CTE among NFL players and others in their general population due to some other external cause? What - cellphone use?!

And stomach cancer was the number one killer in the 19th century in the US due to high consumptions of salted meats. What's the hecks your point? That diseases come and go and we have no clue to why? Perhaps diagnosis has simply gotten better??? Please...

There is an undeniable predetermined narrative to these studies. Too many scientists these days are trying to scare up grants and research money rather than employing the Scientific Method that we learned of as kids. Politics and money rule science.

 

[robbieruff]

There is an undeniable predetermined narrative to these studies. Too many scientists these days are trying to scare up grants and research money rather than employing the Scientific Method that we learned of as kids. Politics and money rule science.

Ok. I can buy that angle...to a certain extent. But given that logic, if money rules, wouldn't the NFL - one of the wealthiest entities on the planet - be the ones forcing a narrative that is more to their benefit?

 

[DFWJC]

Saddens me to say that my favorite sport will probably someday go out of favor.....and rightly so.
If anything, I notice more and more kids not playing. The dividing line is becoming borderline socio-economic to some degree.

Never thought I'd actually want my kid to love another sport more, but I do.
So many of my friends, especially the more educated ones, are funneling their kids to other sports.
I' m not there yet

My kid starts tackle football this year in 4th grade.
Seems so young.
Lots of doctor friends and family members...all asking "why?" .

He's been playing basketball, baseball, and flag football for 3-4 years now.
Loves football the best.

I'm so conflicted on this.

 

[perrykemp]

There is an undeniable predetermined narrative to these studies. Too many scientists these days are trying to scare up grants and research money rather than employing the Scientific Method that we learned of as kids. Politics and money rule science.

I agree. Having said that, the fact that 99% of NFL players show evidence of brain trauma surprises me zero.

 

[robbieruff]

Saddens me to say that my favorite sport will probably someday go out of favor.....and rightly so.
If anything, I notice more and more kids not playing. The dividing line is becoming borderline socio-economic to some degree.

Never thought I'd actually want my kid to love another sport more, but I do.
So many of my friends, especially the more educated ones, are funneling their kids to other sports.
I' m not there yet

My kid starts tackle football this year in 4th grade.
Seems so young.
Lots of doctor friends and family members...all asking "why?" .

He's been playing basketball, baseball, and flag football for 3-4 years now.
Loves football the best.

I'm so conflicted on this.

I feel you DFWJC - 100% on those sentiments. I went to HS in Texas and played football since before I was 10. And was pretty dang good at it too. I have directed my kids to other sports simply because I had uncles play in NFL/college and now they have trouble walking (without the financial gain that you'd hope to come with all that punishment). My son goes to school with Ricky Water's son (they are also friends) so I see that dude every week...his physical condition ain't pretty and the impassioned and enthusiastic antics he showed all the time as a player are now long gone.

My son has gravitated to b-ball and martial arts (my family has been big into that and have been for 30+ years) and my daughter, swimming. As for the latter, she just got a 4-year package at a D1 college via her swimming so I praise God for that one, although I have NO idea where that swimming prowess came from!?!

Football was and has always been BY FAR my favorite sport - both due to the controlled violence as well as the team comraderie...plus there are only 16 games which makes the stakes so much higher than watching MLB or NBA. I love the game but I don't want anyone permanently maimed or disabled for my entertainment. I used to work with Gary Fencik (financial services) who shared his thoughts on the Dave Duerson suicide (his former teammate on the SB Bears). How he shot himself in the chest because he wanted his brain studied by science over concerns re long-term damage due to football. The way Gary talked about it broadly across NFL players took a lot of the varnish off in my eyes.

I hope that through advancements in tech and better prevention we can enjoy this wonderful game for years to come without the horrors of long-term crippling effects.

 

[erod]

Ok. I can buy that angle...to a certain extent. But given that logic, if money rules, wouldn't the NFL - one of the wealthiest entities on the planet - be the ones forcing a narrative that is more to their benefit?

It's like climate change (please, I'm not trying to start that chicken and egg debate, just making a single point.)

There's something to it for sure, but some in the science community have an agenda to stilt the information to what most benefits them, and political entities will gladly pay big money to have them do so.

There is a war on everything masculine, and football is at the forefront. (Notice most of the heroes and power figures in Game of Thrones and movies today are women.) That's fine, but it has to be taken into context.

My opinion, and this is based on stuff I've read, is that there is partly a hereditary component to concussions. Some players get them more easily than others. Style of play and number of years certainly has a role, but plenty of guys never suffer from it. Why isn't Moose drinking his meals out of a straw?

Some of CTE is merely part of the aging process. We aren't looking at enough brains from ordinary folks. Or maybe we are, but that ruins the narrative of the study.

I personally don't believe the NFL will be around in 10-15 years. Lawsuits will end high school and college football, and the talent pool will dry up.

 

[robbieruff]

It's like climate change (please, I'm not trying to start that chicken and egg debate, just making a single point.)

There's something to it for sure, but some in the science community have an agenda to stilt the information to what most benefits them, and political entities will gladly pay big money to have them do so.

There is a war on everything masculine, and football is at the forefront. (Notice most of the heroes and power figures in Game of Thrones and movies today are women.) That's fine, but it has to be taken into context.

My opinion, and this is based on stuff I've read, is that there is partly a hereditary component to concussions. Some players get them more easily than others. Style of play and number of years certainly has a role, but plenty of guys never suffer from it. Why isn't Moose drinking his meals out of a straw?

Some of CTE is merely part of the aging process. We aren't looking at enough brains from ordinary folks. Or maybe we are, but that ruins the narrative of the study.

I personally don't believe the NFL will be around in 10-15 years. Lawsuits will end high school and college football, and the talent pool will dry up.

I think the way you frame it makes sense...although I must say that I am diggin' me some Wonder Woman and Khaleesi watching these days !!!

I sure hope you're wrong about the 10-15 year prediction (as I am sure you are)...but I fear a great backlash as well - not just in the public opinion dynamics but in terms of the talent pool issue you raise. As to the latter, I think boxing's fall off from its heyday (really from the 40's through the 90s in my view - particularly heavyweights peaking in the 70's/80's) is directly related to a talent pool issue. The best athletes (and thus potential boxers) from say the mean streets of Philly or New York or where have you are taking the physically less brutal road to riches - and who can blame them?! But alas, as a boxing fan for as long as I can remember, I now cry in my beer over the sad state of the sport I have loved and learned from childhood...my dad boxed in the Marine Corp which pretty much forced me and my brothers to take it up...our nickname for him was "The Great Santini," but that's a whole 'nother thread for a whole different forum . LOL!

As far as the original topic goes...I think the more transparent and proactive the NFL can appear on the issue, the better chance we have for ensuring the games fruitful longevity...IMHO. I think our boy Moose would agree:

http://www.espn.com/dallas/nfl/stor...cal-care-retired-players-most-important-issue

Thx for sharing your great insights on this discussion!

 

[casmith07]

Downfall begins now.

They need to force the issue with respect to good equipment and new technology.

 

[bigbob]

There is a war on everything masculine, and football is at the forefront. (Notice most of the heroes and power figures in Game of Thrones and movies today are women.) That's fine, but it

This is because :
TV.... Ratings are estimated by Nielsen
and determine the fate of all shows.
Companies have decided women 18 to 35 are the ones to advertise to.
So shows are made to attract this group. Hence strong female dumb guys.

In movies same thing but it's just that
Women control what movies family's
Go to and their dates.

 

[JoeyBoy718]

True. But I don't watch those others for my own entertainment.

Synchronized coal mining is actually pretty exciting.

 

[Longboysfan]

What about boxing? MMA?
Also the cte issues start in pee wee
league's HS. And colleges.
It isn't just NFL.

Think about this.

How many times as a kid do you think you got a mild concussion and never thought about it.

For me I would say at least 10 times and as an young adult at least 4.

 

[bigbob]

Think about this.

How many times as a kid do you think you got a mild concussion and never thought about it.

For me I would say at least 10 times and as an young adult at least 4.

I never had one.

 

[erod]

Downfall begins now.

They need to force the issue with respect to good equipment and new technology.

The problem is, until you figure out how to put a helmet inside the skull, it doesn't matter. Concussions don't happen from blows to the outer skull. They happen from the brain slamming against the inside of the skull. No helmet can prevent that.

Also, they need to consider the massive effect of PEDs and recreational drugs when it comes to brain degradation. Drugs stop the maturation of the brain; why wouldn't they also impact CTE?

Way too many conclusions have been leaped to by these studies.

 

[robbieruff]

The problem is, until you figure out how to put a helmet inside the skull, it doesn't matter. Concussions don't happen from blows to the outer skull. They happen from the brain slamming against the inside of the skull. No helmet can prevent that.

Also, they need to consider the massive effect of PEDs and recreational drugs when it comes to brain degradation. Drugs stop the maturation of the brain; why wouldn't they also impact CTE?

Way too many conclusions have been leaped to by these studies.

I've been accused of being brainless on this forum which would be the likely explanation for how I've avoided concussions all these years despite habitual drug use and continual banging of my head against the wall.

 

[robbieruff]

The problem is, until you figure out how to put a helmet inside the skull, it doesn't matter. Concussions don't happen from blows to the outer skull. They happen from the brain slamming against the inside of the skull. No helmet can prevent that.

Also, they need to consider the massive effect of PEDs and recreational drugs when it comes to brain degradation. Drugs stop the maturation of the brain; why wouldn't they also impact CTE?

Way too many conclusions have been leaped to by these studies.

Interesting follow-up read...ironically saw a story about this on the local news this AM:

http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/new...ion-riddell-schutt/1vytepvswoiaf1d30borcj3kst

 

[erod]

Interesting follow-up read...ironically saw a story about this on the local news this AM:

http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/new...ion-riddell-schutt/1vytepvswoiaf1d30borcj3kst

Read this. It proves the predetermined narrative I mentioned before.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/08/04/dr-bennet-omalu-cte-is-not-the-point/

 

[robbieruff]

Read this. It proves the predetermined narrative I mentioned before.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/08/04/dr-bennet-omalu-cte-is-not-the-point/

Yes. I saw this article. The reason for my sharing the other link had more to do with the tech advancement part of our discussion...this new helmet design looks promising.