Some Realism

[Hostile]

I know, but the problem IMO becomes when before the gun is even sounded to start the race people are already convinced they are right and others who disagree are wrong. And no matter the outcome they become so entrenched in their stances that they refuse to be objective once things get going.
We have seen it with QC, with Hutch, with Vinny, Now bledsoe and Henson.

It will happen, I know this, and I know it stimulates conversation....it is just my personal opinion that it gets old at times and objectivity flies out the window because that would make it harder for people to keep to their arguments.

I am sure that if bledsoe did a decent to Great job here, there will be those that are entrenched in their arguments and opinions that they will do everything in their power to prevent themselves or others from giving the guy the praise or at least respect that he earned. Same could be said if he does a bad job...their will be people who will excuse it even if the man and his coaches say it was on him an nobody else.

However...I say give the guy a chance before becoming so concrete in an opinon of how he will do.

I think we all realize we have become a society of what have you done for me lately in sports....sometimes message boards take it even a step futher in damning or praising a guy before he as even played on the team to earn a legit judgement.
I think it has changed from what have you done for me lately to...This guy is a stud or scrub and I know it beyond a shadow of a doubt even though he has not taken a snap.

Foul! Foul! Foul!

You said "rant off."

 

[junk]

Am I overly excited about Bledsoe? Not really, but he was the best option available and he did come cheap. If he is going to succeed anywhere, it will be in Dallas with Parcells.

QB play now and QB play going forward concerns me, but I will give Bledsoe credit where credit is due if he has a good season.

 

[Alexander]

I have never claimed that Bledsoe is some type of savior but on the other hand it took 11 bad years for Vinny before he got matched up with Parcells and had a Pro Bowl year in his 12th season with the Jets.

So just because Coach Parcells did it with Vinny once that is reason to assume he will do it again? I also hate to say this, but I think Testeverde was a bit better off at similar stages of their careers.

He got to 8-8 once with Ray Lucas and Rick Mirer. That does not mean I want to sign them and if he did, I certainly would not assume they would duplicate the same success they did in 1999.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

I know, but the problem IMO becomes when before the gun is even sounded to start the race people are already convinced they are right and others who disagree are wrong. And no matter the outcome they become so entrenched in their stances that they refuse to be objective once things get going.
We have seen it with QC, with Hutch, with Vinny, Now bledsoe and Henson.

It will happen, I know this, and I know it stimulates conversation....it is just my personal opinion that it gets old at times and objectivity flies out the window because that would make it harder for people to keep to their arguments.

I am sure that if bledsoe did a decent to Great job here, there will be those that are entrenched in their arguments and opinions that they will do everything in their power to prevent themselves or others from giving the guy the praise or at least respect that he earned. Same could be said if he does a bad job...their will be people who will excuse it even if the man and his coaches say it was on him an nobody else.

However...I say give the guy a chance before becoming so concrete in an opinon of how he will do.

I think we all realize we have become a society of what have you done for me lately in sports....sometimes message boards take it even a step futher in damning or praising a guy before he as even played on the team to earn a legit judgement.
I think it has changed from what have you done for me lately to...This guy is a stud or scrub and I know it beyond a shadow of a doubt even though he has not taken a snap.

Well said, Brainpaint...

 

[rcaldw]

I go back to what someone said earlier. If we all subscribe to Brianpaint's point of view on this, we won't debate anything, any time. We will just wait until they play and post the results. Good golly, this is an opinion/discussion board.

 

[LaTunaNostra]

He got to 8-8 once with Ray Lucas and Rick Mirer.

Well, he got to 6-3 with Lucas and 2-5 with Mirer.

Just to set the record straight,

 

[Doomsday101]

So just because Coach Parcells did it with Vinny once that is reason to assume he will do it again? I also hate to say this, but I think Testeverde was a bit better off at similar stages of their careers.

He got to 8-8 once with Ray Lucas and Rick Mirer. That does not mean I want to sign them and if he did, I certainly would not assume they would duplicate the same success they did in 1999.

I'm just saying before people put a fork in Bledsoe lets see what he can do in Dallas working with Parcells and Payton. It is easy to look at Bledsoe last couple of years in Buffalo and say that is how he will do here, fact is what he did in Buffalo has no bearing what so ever of what he may accomplish here in Dallas. Moves like this have helped many QB's over the years, with Bledsoe I don't know if it will or will not make a difference but I'm more than willing to sit back and give him a chance before writing him off as so many around here are doing.

 

[Juke99]

Well, he got to 6-3 with Lucas and 2-5 with Mirer.

Just to set the record straight,

Truly a great job of coaching that was...the Lucas part...not the Mirer part.

I also thought the did a great job with QC the first half of the season.

We'll see about an old dog and new tricks though with Bledsoe.

 

[Alexander]

Well, he got to 6-3 with Lucas and 2-5 with Mirer.

Just to set the record straight,

Next thing you will say it would have been 16-0 if he had Terry Glenn on that Jets team.

 

[ravidubey]

When did anyone say he'd become a Hall of Fame lock because he donned royal blue and metallic silver? (actually that's another topic, but back to the thread...)

- Bledsoe has a strong arm.
- Bledsoe looks deep first, then to the TE, then dumps off unless sacked.
- Bledsoe has not had a TE, or even a good possession WR, since Coates except 1 season.
- Bledsoe's one season with a TE since Coates he threw for 4000 yards.
- The last Cowboy to throw for 4000 yards was Danny White in 1983.
- Bledsoe has not had good WR's, good RB's, and a good OL with supporting defense and ST's since the late 1990's when he was either in the Superbowl or throwing TD's in the high-20's.

You have just demonsrated my point in this post.

Do you really expect him to throw for 4,000 yards this year?
You think he is our best QB since Danny White?
Bledsoe hasn't had ANY supporting cast according to you since early in his career when he was "lighting it up", and so, IMPLIED, is that he will return to his "young days".

I rest my case.

You would lose your case. You are saying I and others are expecting not only a 1996 Drew Bledsoe, but some kind of Hall of Fame improved version of the same?

What we expect is a decent QB and a good passer! The point you seem to be missing is that Bledsoe's increase or decline in production has mirrored his supporting cast and not a decline in his physical abilities!!

You are also "implying" that a QB's performance (i.e. his stats) should be consistent regardless of the supporting cast, and I say that's utterly false.

The media's recent negative portrayal of Bledsoe is a fashionable backlash against a guy who was the #1 pick overall and one of the highest paid guys ever in the NFL whose team won the Superbowl without him. The same thing happened to Terry Glenn until Bill realized how good he still was and took him back. Bill recognizes that similarly Bledsoe's value is higher than his perceived value-- to which I say thank you media!

Your hyper response about "best QB" since Danny White is overkill and argumentative, BTW. I was merely making the point that with a decent supporting cast in 2002 (a whole 3 years ago) Bledsoe threw for 4000 yards and that is nothing to sneeze at.

 

[burmafrd]

Bledsoe will do well for us as long as we block well, have a solid running game, and good receivers. A top TE is to many QB's their safety blanket- it was to Aikman.
We have Witten and Campbell. We have veteran WR's in Key and Terry- a possession guy and a burner. We have JJ and a real threat to hurt people in the running game.
Our O line has 3 Pro Bowl players and one that is close (Johnson), RT the only worry.
I see no reason why we cant score 21-24 pts a game.

 

[LaTunaNostra]

I go back to what someone said earlier. If we all subscribe to Brianpaint's point of view on this, we won't debate anything, any time. We will just wait until they play and post the results. Good golly, this is an opinion/discussion board.

rcaldw, that's not what BP is saying.

He's saying some of us have our minds already made up. And nothing Bledsoe does or doesn't do will change it.

He's right, too.

Some of us want to see Henson (or Romo), no matter what. Even a winning season out of Bledsoe, even a Pro Bowl season out of Bledsoe (even worse, he'll be around longer) won't put us behind DB 100%.

Does this sound disloyal, silly, and putting a player above the team? Yeah, it does. But if you believe long term competitiveness is first and foremost dependent upon finding yourself a young talented Brady or Rothelisberger to build around, and if you add in the developmental time it's gonna take to get the new D up and running..time that could be spent concurrently establishing and developing a young QB via actual game experience...

..a measure of something akin to logic does set in.

I won't be one hanging Drew B. in effigy if he doesn't get to the second or third playoff rounds.

But I will be judging him on a double standard, unfair perhaps, but I think reasonable as well..and that is keeping the team competitive while the new defensive schemes are implemented.

And that means some purty high scoring games. And it means actually winning us a few, not just bus driving, carrying the offense, and the whole team for a few weeks, if need be.

If it's gonna be bus driving leading to ultimate failure again, better the kids.

Drew's got to lead us, and win a few high scoring games while the D gels, carry the team like a true leader and elite QB if need be, or I want his head on a silver and blue platter.

 

[LaTunaNostra]

Next thing you will say it would have been 16-0 if he had Terry Glenn on that Jets team.

Nah, there were so any key season-ending injuries so early to that team that year (including a crusher to Fergy), I 'spect T would have just made his annual dive and saved himself the trouble.

 

[Alexander]

What we expect is a decent QB and a good passer! The point you seem to be missing is that Bledsoe's increase or decline in production has mirrored his supporting cast and not a decline in his physical abilities!!

That is not an established fact.

We go back to the "supporting cast" argument because that has been everyone's excuse for poor production around here for years. In fact, Bledsoe will tell you himself, it wasn't him in Buffalo. It was the supporting cast.

That is one excuse that is purely speculative.

You are also "implying" that a QB's performance (i.e. his stats) should be consistent regardless of the supporting cast, and I say that's utterly false.

It is not like he played with exactly the same team in Buffalo each year either. Some years he had Price and Moulds, others he did not. That does nothing to dispel the notion that his skills could possibly be eroding.

That happens with age. Your strengths are minimized and your weaknesses are increased.

The media's recent negative portrayal of Bledsoe is a fashionable backlash against a guy who was the #1 pick overall and one of the highest paid guys ever in the NFL whose team won the Superbowl without him. The same thing happened to Terry Glenn until Bill realized how good he still was and took him back. Bill recognizes that similarly Bledsoe's value is higher than his perceived value-- to which I say thank you media!

No, it isn't. It is a reasonable conclusion based upon a preponderance of the evidence.

If the same comment was made regarding Bledsoe by the media and he played for the Commanders, I bet many would agree completely and fail to make as many excuses if the tables were turned.

But since he has a star on his helmet and is reunited with Coach Parcells, expectations are much more positive than they have any logical reason being.

Your hyper response about "best QB" since Danny White is overkill and argumentative, BTW. I was merely making the point that with a decent supporting cast in 2002 (a whole 3 years ago) Bledsoe threw for 4000 yards and that is nothing to sneeze at.

Emmitt Smith ran for 1000 yards three years ago. And that was with a poor surrounding cast. I don't want him carrying the football right now either.

I think this post was started with the thought that people just need to take a step back, take off the rose colored glasses and start thinking realistically and in the now, not three years ago.

He won't be the worst. He won't be the best. He will just "be". And that is probably not as big of a leap away from what we had as many people would love to believe.

But if this were Jonestown, there would be more than a few empty Dixie cups laying around.

 

[followthestar]

once you can establish a running game, almost any consistently solid QB can take you as far as you want to go. bledsoe has the arm and the experience to find his receivers, if the defense has to respect our running game. lets remember we're also getting back perhaps the best blocking TE in Campbell, as well as Rivera and a healthy Johnson at C. we also have depth across the line which will keep everyone fresher. i feel we will have a very dangerous rushing attack, and therefore bledsoe should have a very good year. he should make an excellent bus driver...

 

[LaTunaNostra]

once you can establish a running game, almost any consistently solid QB can take you as far as you want to go. bledsoe has the arm and the experience to find his receivers, if the defense has to respect our running game. lets remember we're also getting back perhaps the best blocking TE in Campbell, as well as Rivera and a healthy Johnson at C. we also have depth across the line which will keep everyone fresher. i feel we will have a very dangerous rushing attack, and therefore bledsoe should have a very good year. he should make an excellent bus driver...

Heck yeah.

This is looking like a very nice bus indeed.

Whereas Quincy's featured T-Ham and for most of the season's Vinny's had EG, Drew gets JJ in his second year - bigger, more savvy, able to read and pick up blitzes that more accurately, and more experienced as a receiver to boot. Then there is the receiver depth, in addition ot the feaure back JJ, the power and the change up.

VT had to do w/o Campbell..Drew gets him plus Witten off a break out year.

The receiver depth is sketchy already but Q's "possession receiver" was Terry Glenn. Vinnie had Key as a possession receiver, but no reliable deep threat after week seven.

The line-wise bus looks like it will be better than it has been in years.

This is a good bus.

No excuses.

 

[Alexander]

he should make an excellent bus driver...

Raymond Bledsoe: Yeah, Dad let's me drive slow on the driveway every Sunday. 'Course the bus was bigger back then now it's a pitiful short one.

http://www.new-video.de/co/rainman.m.jpg

 

[Zaxor]

rcaldw, that's not what BP is saying.

He's saying some of us have our minds already made up. And nothing Bledsoe does or doesn't do will change it.

He's right, too.

Some of us want to see Henson (or Romo), no matter what. Even a winning season out of Bledsoe, even a Pro Bowl season out of Bledsoe (even worse, he'll be around longer) won't put us behind DB 100%.

Does this sound disloyal, silly, and putting a player above the team? Yeah, it does. But if you believe long term competitiveness is first and foremost dependent upon finding yourself a young talented Brady or Rothelisberger to build around, and if you add in the developmental time it's gonna take to get the new D up and running..time that could be spent concurrently establishing and developing a young QB via actual game experience...

..a measure of something akin to logic does set in.

I won't be one hanging Drew B. in effigy if he doesn't get to the second or third playoff rounds.

But I will be judging him on a double standard, unfair perhaps, but I think reasonable as well..and that is keeping the team competitive while the new defensive schemes are implemented.

And that means some purty high scoring games. And it means actually winning us a few, not just bus driving, carrying the offense, and the whole team for a few weeks, if need be.

If it's gonna be bus driving leading to ultimate failure again, better the kids.

Drew's got to lead us, and win a few high scoring games while the D gels, carry the team like a true leader and elite QB if need be, or I want his head on a silver and blue platter.

Ditto what the Lady said

 

[Kittymama]

Like Kittmama said, who exactly has claimed that Bledsoe is going to be some great quarterback for us? Most of what I've seen are hopes that he'll be competent and an upgrade over Vinny... Not an outrageous hope at all.

Most of the enthusiam about this team comes from Rivera helping the O line, Barber and Thomas behind Julius boosting the running game, and Ferguson, Henry, Spears, Ware, and Burnett helping the defense -- not Drew Bledsoe riding to our rescue and becoming a savior.

I see Bledsoe as 2 things for the team. One is that he'll be our QB this year. The other is that he's the blueprint for when Henson/Romo takes over the team. In both cases, realistically, you don't have a QB who can go out a win a game for you--inotherwords, you don't want to put a game on his shoulders (Elway, Aikman). BUT, ideally you have a QB who won't lose the game (Roethlisberger). If the rest of the team can get up to speed this year under a vet QB on what they need to do on both sides of the ball to win, it will make the transition to the young QB much easier when it occurs. That way, for most of the time, all we'll be asking the QB to do is not screw it up (& if we're really lucky, we'll find out with Henson/Romo that we've got a Brady who can also win games when necessary).

 

[Alexander]

In both cases, realistically, you don't have a QB who can go out a win a game for you--inotherwords, you don't want to put a game on his shoulders (Elway, Aikman). BUT, ideally you have a QB who won't lose the game (Roethlisberger).

But that is not really what we might be doing.

Coach Parcells has not whipped out the "bus driver" label yet.

He has, however, whipped out the "he's faster than you think, I promise you" line, which reminds me way too much of the infamous Vinny and the squats commentary.

And my question is this--If we are looking for a Roethliberger, just hand the ball off and get out of the way-type, why not Henson? Is he that developmentally stunted?