Someone tell me why the love for the 3-4?

[theogt]

Can someone please show me where our D was #1 in 2004?

That was in 2003.

 

[MetalHead]

Can someone please show me where our D was #1 in 2004?

2004 was atrocious...2003 was good until Thanksgiving.
Bill's teams were allergic to the month of December.

 

[MetalHead]

No, not at all. Now Wade Phillips's on the other hand....

I see you are open to hire someone who can unleash the talent we have.
That's a start.

 

[bbgun]

No, not at all. Now Wade Phillips's on the other hand....

First assignment: fix Marcus Spears.

http://img443.*************/img443/9140/4217796148xh0.jpg

 

[Crown Royal]

First assignment: fix Marcus Spears.

http://img443.*************/img443/9140/4217796148xh0.jpg

And Canty. I said it in another thread - the biggest problem with our defense wasn't our problems with the secondary or James - it was our DEs who didn't play up to expectations.:bang2:

 

[theogt]

First assignment: fix Marcus Spears.

I think if we see a Phillips or a Ryan in here, that'll be fixed. With Bowles, who knows -- it could just be a redux of Parcells's read and react defense where the ends aren't really pass-rushers.

 

[CF74]

We can't get rid of Spears, I just bought his jersey last year

 

[LatinMind]

dallas could do that if they did the following.

1. Trade Marcus Spears and Chris Canty. Neither player can play DT in the 4-3. They are not strong enough to play the run. Do either of them have any trade value? The picks brought in would have to be used for a DT and DE.

2. Move Burnett to the weakside, leave Carpenter on the strong side, and start Akin in the middle.



I'm just not sure that Dallas has enought bodies to play the 4-3 full time. The backup linebackers are too slow and there are not enough DEs. Maybe they could utilize more 4-3 packages but it won't make the majority of the snaps. I could see them using a hybrid defense like New England.

how can spears not play DT? he played the Dt in the nickle this yr and had production out of it. canty i think is really the only true 3-4 player on the team and would have a hard time adjusting to the 4-3. but he's having trouble adjusting to the 3-4 too.

 

[Little Jr]

We were the top rated defense the last year we played a 4-3. We switched and went downholl. I don;t see anything that makes me feel the 3-4 is all that great. Our pass rush is nonexistent.

We got the players to make the switch, so go back to the traditional Cowboy 4-3. If not, tell me why not, and please don't flame.

One reason is becasue we have drafted for it. The other is when it is ran the way it's suppose to be ran it is a very effective D. Especially putting pressure on the QB. Look at the top 5 D's in sack totals. 4 of them run the 3-4.

 

[The Realist]

2004 was atrocious...2003 was good until Thanksgiving.
Bill's teams were allergic to the month of December.

Still waiting to see where the 2004 D was #1 according to original poster.

 

[SuspectCorner]

spears and canty are approaching "make-or-break" time. next season will be their 3rd. let's get 'em a coach that will maximize their potentials. demarcus ware's, too. and carpenter and bradie james and T-New AND roy williams.

quit messin' around JJ. sign wade phillips and you will win almost ANY game where the Cowboys score 20 points.

 

[theogt]

Still waiting to see where the 2004 D was #1 according to original poster.

He obviously made a mistake. Stop waiting.

 

[MONT17]

You mean that no turnover creating no QB sack producing bend but don't break defense?

The 2006 version of the 3-4 was doomed from the beginning. First, we had the village idiot calling the shots. Then Ellis got hurt. So to judge the success or failure of the 3-4 based on this last year isn't really fair.

I (and think most would agree) don't have a personal preference for either. The main thing I want is someone in here to run our D the was it is supposed to be ran.

Oh how I long for a team that will not let 1 injury destroy a season... Flo and Ellis are tough breaks but every team has them and not every team collapsed as the Boys...

i liked the Ellis excuse better the year before when it was the Singleton excuse!!!

 

[FiniteMan!]

We were the top rated defense the last year we played a 4-3. We switched and went downholl. I don;t see anything that makes me feel the 3-4 is all that great. Our pass rush is nonexistent.

We got the players to make the switch, so go back to the traditional Cowboy 4-3. If not, tell me why not, and please don't flame.

I share your opinion, in no small part I will admit, because I see the 3-4 as limp-wristed AFC football. I think the thing I like about the 4-3 scheme is that if you don't focus on building with lightweight gapshooters, you can really be very difficult to run on. I personally think teams that can stop the run win a lot more that teams that can stop the pass. ...And they don't seem as wimpy.

Now it has been brought up before that running the 4-3 a few years back Dallas had one of the worst run defenses of all time. (A unfair stab at Zimmer.) That defense was packed with undersized DLs AND they were being coached to try to hold their position rather than shoot gaps and attack. ZImmer had to demand the freedom to let his players attack before the bleeding was stopped. ZImmer orchestrated that turnaround. If you look at the times Dallas' defense struggled under ZImmer, it was usually because of bad passive ideas forced on him by Jerry and the head coach.

Concerning the personell, I think we have great personell for a 4-3 scheme, moderate personel for the 3-4. In the 3-4, none of our down linemen are going to be double digit sackers as ends, and as noted above they are not really as strong as they could be. In the 3-4, they are just blocking dummies or, lol, dropping into coverage. They are in in a scheme where thay are likely to develop. In the 4-3, some of those 300 lbs will be attacking, often vs. single blocking.

Micky Spagnola is with me in seeing a 4-3 D there. "Then, just go back to playing the 4-3, which would take no time at all - or added personnel - to transition to this year. Hands of Greg Ellis and DeMarcus Ware go on the ground at end. Jason Ferguson and a combination of Marcus Spears, Chris Canty and maybe Jay Ratliff inside. Bradie James in the middle, Akin Ayodele returns to his strong side and Bobby Carpenter goes weak."

Looking at the 4-3, I would say Ellis returns to an end spot --- I'd say strongside end on passing downs, weakside on running downs. Ware would fill the weakside end spot on passing downs and the weakside OLB in some instances on running downs, but he would almost exclusively be rushing the passer. Coleman, Canty, and Hatcher would be splitting time at DE to give Ellis and Ware a blow and help stop the run. Spears and Ratliff would split the eagle tackle spot with Ferguson handling most of the Nose time. (I'd love to see Jerry trade even a third to reacquire glover and just roll with 2 eagle tackle types, but oh well. Maybe as Mikey suggests, Canty would make a good DT. Detroit drafted a tall DE about a decade ago who sucked at DE his first year and became quite accomplished as a pro DT. Maybe Canty and Spears are the same kinds of guys. I think if you don't want PSears to just be a bust you need to try something to get him going. He seems like and eagle tackle to me.)

I think we have an abundance of solid to better LBs, but aside from Ware I am not convinced any of them are not better suited for the 4-3. At LB I'd defer to mikey for the most part. Maybe something along the lines of Bradie James at MLB, Akin Ayodele at SOLB and Bobby Carpenter at WOLB (when Ware is taking a break) on early downs. Then in passing downs, James would come out, Ayodele would slide to the middle and Singleton would play an outside spot. Add a blitzing Roy Williams and there is no reason Dallas would not be an above average team at generating a push in the pass rush.

I know that much blitzing sounds a good deal like the old chicago 46, but to me that would be the best way to utilize this talent.

The facts are this team is average at best in a passive 3-4, but would likely be pretty darned dominant as a physical, aggressive 4-3 if they could land a good big coverage CB and possibly a better coverage FS (1st and 2nd round picks in the draft?).

 

[cobra]

People like the 3-4 because it is more of a pressure defense.

It's as simple as that. There are things that the 4-3 is better at. But if you want a pressure defense, then the 3-4 is better at generating consistent pressure.

 

[Doomsday101]

We were the top rated defense the last year we played a 4-3. We switched and went downholl. I don;t see anything that makes me feel the 3-4 is all that great. Our pass rush is nonexistent.

We got the players to make the switch, so go back to the traditional Cowboy 4-3. If not, tell me why not, and please don't flame.

Pass rush was not looking good from the 4-3 either so it is not a matter of which you run it is players going out and executing the defense. One reason to keep the 3-4 is because of the investment in players we have brought in to run this style of defense. In the end neither defense is magic it takes players to go out and do the job.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Pass rush was not looking good from the 4-3 either so it is not a matter of which you run it is players going out and excuting the defense. One reason to keep the 3-4 is because of the investment in players we have brought in to run this style of defense. In the end neither defense is magic it takes players to go out and do the job.

 

[fortdick]

Still waiting to see where the 2004 D was #1 according to original poster.

I was referring to the 2003 season. But maybe you couldn't figure that out.

 

[The Realist]

I was referring to the 2003 season. But maybe you couldn't figure that out.

You said the last year we played 4-3 which was 2004.

But maybe you couldn't figure that out (obviously).

We also beat up on everyone who ended up picking top 10.

On top of that, we STILL weren't the top rated D.