Sopranos - Article page 18

Echo9

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junk;1525052 said:
Did anyone think that when Tony first walked in, it looked like he was looking at himself already sitting down?
Kinda seemed that way to me at first, but I watched again and the first time they show the restaurant, there's actually no one sitting there. Then they cut to Tony's reaction. It's actually a "oh I'm the first one here, my family hasn't shown up yet" look.

They cut right back to the identical scene of the restaurant with Tony sitting there. Kinda makes your mind play tricks about the first time they showed the restaurant, but it was actually an empty table. (thank you TiVo)

There's also some stuff being bounced around about Tony wearing a different shirt. He's not. He just took the jacket off.


Aside from the "Wha??, my cable went out!" initial reaction, this ending has grown on me.

Reminds me of this short story I was forced to read back some year on elementary or Jr high (or whatever) called "The Lady and the Tiger." Here's a link since I am not in the mood to go into detail.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lady_and_the_Tiger

I do remember being pretty pissed at that stupid story when I read it, with that whole pompous "thought experiment on human nature"

But with all the alternatives to end the show, I'm pretty satisfied with the ending Chase did. Not at first, but eventually.

Still hate that short story though.
 

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Taps-n-1;1525255 said:
I thought the implication was clear. Tony IS DEAD and WAS CLIPPED by someone. We the audience have always seen the episodes from Tony's point of view, and the blackened silence is what Tony sees and hears when he finally gets clipped.

Remember the conversation with Bobby at the lake? "I wonder if you hear the one that gets you" - the final episode answers that question. That is why they flashed back to it at the end of last weeks episode. He never heard the one that killed him.



Actually, I think the whole "wonder if you hear the one that gets you" related more to Bobby getting killed rather than anything to do with Tony in the last episode.

The answer to that question? Yup. ya hear it...along with the sound of crashing train sets.


Bobby heard it, saw and felt it.
 

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EMMITTnROY;1525482 said:
I haven't posted on here in quite awhile.. But I just had to weigh in on my all-time favorite TV show and it's brilliant finale.. Here are my thoughts:

Me and everyone else that I was watching it with was the same way at first- we all thought that the cable went out and we just sat there in silence. And we just kinda sat there that way for until the credits started rolling and we were like, “Huh??” But after settling down and talking about it, this is how I interpreted it:

We the audience feel Tony's tension of having to look over his shoulder for the rest of his life.. We have been watching him live his life for the past 9 years, but for the last five minutes of the show, we actually lived his life.. We were shown everything from his view point.. And it was the most intense five or ten minutes of TV that I’ve ever watched.. Every single person that he saw was someone that I thought might potentially kill him.. There is a great, great build-up and... cut to black. But Tony goes on feeling this way for the rest of his life.. He didn't die, he didn't go to jail, he didn't enter witness protection- I think they stayed away from those three things cause that’s what everyone was expecting.. No, he goes on living, he has made peace with his living family members, he had his rival killed, and his kids' futures are finally headed in a good direction.. The final scene was really pretty normal on the surface, yet because he is Tony Soprano, every single move and every single moment was intense.. And that is how we leave him- surrounded by his family and at peace with things more now than ever - yet knowing that any moment could be his last.. That's the life he lives..
yeah that about sums it up for me.
 

junk

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Erik_H;1525659 said:
Kinda seemed that way to me at first, but I watched again and the first time they show the restaurant, there's actually no one sitting there. Then they cut to Tony's reaction. It's actually a "oh I'm the first one here, my family hasn't shown up yet" look.

They cut right back to the identical scene of the restaurant with Tony sitting there. Kinda makes your mind play tricks about the first time they showed the restaurant, but it was actually an empty table. (thank you TiVo)

There's also some stuff being bounced around about Tony wearing a different shirt. He's not. He just took the jacket off.


Aside from the "Wha??, my cable went out!" initial reaction, this ending has grown on me.

Reminds me of this short story I was forced to read back some year on elementary or Jr high (or whatever) called "The Lady and the Tiger." Here's a link since I am not in the mood to go into detail.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lady_and_the_Tiger

I do remember being pretty pissed at that stupid story when I read it, with that whole pompous "thought experiment on human nature"

But with all the alternatives to end the show, I'm pretty satisfied with the ending Chase did. Not at first, but eventually.

Still hate that short story though.

Yep, I rewatched the ending tonight as well. It was just the way they cut the scene.
 

Draegerman

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Yes, life for Tony et. al. goes on. But there is no catharsis. There is no resolution. There is no progress. There is just the empty feeling that he never knows who will walk through that door or what impact that will have on his life. Can you imagine living every moment of your life feeling that way? Imagine how you felt as the viewer the last 5 or so minutes of that show just kept repeating itself in your mind -- in your gut -- every day.

We now know Tony better than we ever have.

So, although not being "wow"-ed at the moment the show concluded, after some thought -- my conclusion is literary brillance. But, as with many episodes of this series, you have to look a bit deeper to see it.
 

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Erik_H;1525659 said:
Kinda seemed that way to me at first, but I watched again and the first time they show the restaurant, there's actually no one sitting there. Then they cut to Tony's reaction. It's actually a "oh I'm the first one here, my family hasn't shown up yet" look.

They cut right back to the identical scene of the restaurant with Tony sitting there. Kinda makes your mind play tricks about the first time they showed the restaurant, but it was actually an empty table. (thank you TiVo)
They did a similar effect when Tony went to visit Junior.

He's standing at the door looking at Jr. in the corner... clearly debating whether or not to go in and try to talk to him. Then the big orderly asks Tony to move out of the way so he can get by, and then they cut to a shot of a large man standing beside Jr. where, for a minute it's unclear who that person is, and whether or not we're still looking at the scene from afar from Tony's perspective.

Both scenes really give you a bifurcated sense of Tony's being, which we've seen a lot of in this series, but never so jarringly so as in this last episode... are we watching the events through Tony's eyes (first person) or from a third person perspective? It's never quite clear... and those two scenes in the finale intentionally blur the lines even more.

Then, of course, this question (first person or third person) takes on an even greater significance in the final seconds. Are we watching from first person (meaning that when the lights go out, Tony must be dead) or a third person (meaning that the show is over and our ability to watch what's going on is now finished)?
 

BrAinPaiNt

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Found this on Fark It is an article from the lone interview Chase gave since the series has ended...


'Sopranos' creator's last word: End speaks for itself
by Alan Sepinwall, Newark Star-Ledger
Tuesday, June 12, 2007

What do you do when your TV world ends? You go to dinner, then keep quiet.

"Sopranos" creator David Chase took his wife out for dinner Sunday night in France, where he fled to avoid "all the Monday morning quarterbacking" about the show's finale. After this exclusive interview (agreed to before the season began), he intends to let the work -- especially the controversial final scene -- speak for itself.

"I have no interest in explaining, defending, reinterpreting, or adding to what is there," he says of the final scene.

"No one was trying to be audacious, honest to God," he adds. "We did what we thought we had to do. No one was trying to blow people's minds or thinking, 'Wow, this'll (tick) them off.'

"People get the impression that you're trying to (mess) with them, and it's not true. You're trying to entertain them."

In that final scene, mob boss Tony Soprano waited at a Bloomfield ice cream parlor for his family to arrive, one by one. What was a seemingly benign family outing was shot and cut as the preamble to a tragedy, with Tony suspiciously eyeing one patron after another, the camera dwelling a little too long on Meadow's parallel parking and a walk by a man in a Members Only jacket to the men's room. Just as the tension ratcheted up to unbearable levels, the series cut to black in mid-scene (and mid-song), with no resolution.

"Anybody who wants to watch it, it's all there," says Chase, 61, who based the series in general (and Tony's relationship with mother Livia specifically) on his North Caldwell childhood.

Some fans have assumed the ambiguous ending was Chase setting up the oft-rumored "Sopranos" movie.

"I don't think about (a movie) much," he says. "I never say never. An idea could pop into my head where I would go, 'Wow, that would make a great movie,' but I doubt it.

"I'm not being coy," he adds. "If something appeared that really made a good 'Sopranos' movie and you could invest in it and everybody else wanted to do it, I would do it. But I think we've kind of said it and done it."

Another problem: Over the last season, Chase killed so many key characters. He's toyed with the idea of "going back to a day in 2006 that you didn't see, but then (Tony's children) would be older than they were then and you would know that Tony doesn't get killed. It's got problems."

(Earlier in the interview, Chase noted that often his favorite part of the show was the characters telling stories about the good ol' days of Tony's parents. Just a guess, but if Chase ever does a movie spinoff, it'll be set in Newark in the'60s.)

Since Chase is declining to offer his interpretation of the final scene, let me present two more of my own, which came to me with a good night's sleep and a lot of helpful reader e-mails:

# Theory No. 1 (and the one I prefer): Chase is using the final scene to place the viewer into Tony's mind-set. This is how he sees the world: Every open door, every person walking past him could be coming to kill him or arrest him or otherwise harm him or his family. This is his life, even though the paranoia's rarely justified. We end without knowing what Tony's looking at because he never knows what's coming next.

# Theory No. 2: In the scene on the boat in "Soprano Home Movies," repeated again last week, Bobby Bacala suggested that when you get killed, you don't see it coming. Certainly, our man in the Members Only jacket could have gone to the men's room to prepare for killing Tony (shades of the first "Godfather"), and the picture and sound cut out because Tony's life just did. (Or because we, as viewers, got whacked from our life with the show.)

Meanwhile, remember that 21-month hiatus between Seasons Five and Six? That was Chase thinking up the ending. HBO's then-chairman Chris Albrecht came to him after Season Five and suggested thinking up a conclusion to the series; Chase agreed, on the condition he get "a long break" to decide on an ending.

Originally, that ending was supposed to occur last year, but midway through production, the number of episodes was increased, and Chase stretched out certain plot elements while saving the major climaxes for this final batch of nine.

"If this had been one season, the Vito storyline would not have been so important," he says.

Much of this final season featured Tony bullying, killing or otherwise alienating the members of his inner circle. After all those years of viewing him as "the sympathetic mob boss," were we, like his therapist Dr. Melfi, supposed to finally wake up and smell the sociopath?

"From my perspective, there's nothing different about Tony in this season than there ever was," Chase says. "To me, that's Tony."

Chase has had an ambivalent relationship with his fans, particularly the bloodthirsty whacking crowd who seemed to tune in only for the chance to see someone's head get blown off (or run over by an SUV). So was he reluctant to fill last week's penultimate episode, "The Blue Comet," with so many vivid death scenes?

"I'm the number one fan of gangster movies," he says. "Martin Scorsese has no greater devotee than me. Like everyone else, I get off partly on the betrayals, the retributions, the swift justice. But what you come to realize when you do a series is, you could be killing straw men all day long. Those murders only have any meaning when you've invested story in them. Otherwise, you might as well watch 'Cleaver.'"

One detail about the final scene he'll discuss, however tentatively: the selection of Journey's "Don't Stop Believin'" as the song on the jukebox.

"It didn't take much time at all to pick it, but there was a lot of conversation after the fact. I did something I'd never done before: In the location van, with the crew, I was saying, 'What do you think?' When I said, 'Don't Stop Believin',' people went, 'What? Oh my God!'

"I said, 'I know, I know, just give a listen,' and little by little, people started coming around."

Whether viewers will have a similar time-delayed reaction to the finale as a whole, Chase doesn't know. ("I hear some people were very angry and others were not, which is what I expected.") He's relaxing in France, then he'll try to make movies.

"It's been the greatest career experience of my life," he says. "There's nothing more in TV that I could say or would want to say."

Here's Chase on some other points about the finale and the season:

# After all the speculation Agent Harris might turn Tony, instead we saw Harris had turned, passing along info on Phil's whereabouts and cheering, "We're going to win this thing!" when learning of Phil's demise.

"This is based on an actual case of an FBI agent who got a little bit too partisan and excited during the Colombo wars of the'70s," Chase says of the story of Lindley DeVecchio, who supplied Harris' line.

# Speaking of Harris, Chase had no problem with never revealing what -- if anything -- terror suspects Muhammed and Ahmed were up to.

"This, to me, feels very real," he says. "For the majority of these suspects, it's very hard for anybody to know what these people are doing. I don't even think Harris might know where they are. That was sort of the point of it: Who knows if they are terrorists or if they're innocent pistachio salesmen? That's the fear that we are living with now."

Also, the story -- repeated by me, unfortunately -- that Fox, when "The Sopranos" was in development there, wanted Chase to have Tony help the FBI catch terrorists isn't true.

"What I said was, if I had done it at Fox, Tony would have been a gangster by day and helping the FBI by night, but we weren't there long enough for anyone to make that suggestion."

# I spent the last couple of weeks wrapping my brain around a theory supplied by reader Sam Lorber (and his daughter, Emily) that the nine episodes of this season were each supposed to represent one of the nine circles of Hell from Dante's "The Divine Comedy."

Told of the theory, Chase laughed and said, "No."

# Since Butchie was introduced as a guy who was pushing Phil to take out Tony, why did he turn on Phil and negotiate peace with Tony?

"I think Butch was an intelligent guy; he began to see that there was no need for it, that Phil's feelings were all caught up in what was esentially a convoluted personal grudge."

# Not from Chase, but I feel the need to debunk the e-mail that's making the rounds about all the Holsten's patrons being characters from earlier in the series. The actor playing Members Only guy had never been on the show; Tony killed at least one, if not both, of his carjackers; and there are about 17 other things wrong with this popular but incorrect theory.

Alan Sepinwall may be reached at asepinwall(at)starledger(dot)com, or by writing him at 1 Star-Ledger Plaza, Newark, N.J. 07102-1200. You may also visit the Sopranos blog at blog.nj.com/alltv/
 

HTownCowboysFan

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^ Hell of an article. I thought the ending was brilliant myself. I'd love to see a film about Johnny Boy Soprano and Junior Soprano from back in the day.
 

BrAinPaiNt

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HTownCowboysFan;1526229 said:
^ Hell of an article. I thought the ending was brilliant myself. I'd love to see a film about Johnny Boy Soprano and Junior Soprano from back in the day.

That would be interesting.

I know I liked the segment in the Godfather II movie when they would go back to the earlier days.

They just briefly touched on Junior and Johnny boy in a few episodes so it would be interesting.

Would also be cool to see the fathers, uncles of other characters and so on.

IF they ever did that they would HAVE to show a scene of Johnny Boy shooting through Tony's mothers beehive hair. :laugh2:
 

Yeagermeister

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HTownCowboysFan;1526229 said:
^ Hell of an article. I thought the ending was brilliant myself. I'd love to see a film about Johnny Boy Soprano and Junior Soprano from back in the day.

Just watch the Godfather and pay attention to Johnny Ola :D
 

calico

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I would love to see an HBO movie about Johnny and Junior...the flashbacks to them in the first 2 seasons were one of my favorite parts of the series.
 

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Tony Soprano is dead theory gains credence

In one episode, Bobby described being killed as ‘everything just goes black’


Mike Derer / AP
"Sopranos" creator David Chase, left, walks away from actor James Gandolfini during production of the series in Kearny, N.J., March 21. Fans are starting to believe that Tony Soprano was whacked in the finale. And they may be right.
http://www.reuters.com/

LOS ANGELES - Fans of “The Sopranos
tvtag_icon_10x10.gif
” are seizing on clues suggesting the controversial blackout which abruptly ended the TV mob drama meant that Tony Soprano was rubbed out, and HBO said on Thursday they may be on to something.
One clue in particular, a flashback in the penultimate episode to a conversation between Tony and his brother-in-law about death, gained credence as an HBO spokesman called it a “legitimate” hint and confirmed that series creator David Chase had a definite ending in mind.
“While he won’t say to me 100 percent what it all means, he says some people who’ve guessed have come closer than others,” HBO spokesman Quentin Schaffer told Reuters after speaking to Chase.


“There are definitely things there that he intended for people to pick up on,” Schaffer said.
Chase himself suggested as much in an interview on Tuesday with The Star-Ledger newspaper of New Jersey when he said of his end to the HBO series, “Anyone who wants to watch it, it’s all there.”
In the final moments of Sunday’s concluding episode, Tony, the conflicted mob boss who has just survived a round of gangland warfare, sits in a diner with his family munching on onion rings as the 1980s song by rock band Journey, “Don’t Stop Believing,” blares from a juke box.
Tension builds as a suspicious man wearing a “Members Only” jacket eyes Tony from a nearby counter before slipping into a restroom. Then, as Tony looks toward the restaurant’s entrance, the screen abruptly goes blank in mid-scene — with no picture or sound for 10 seconds — until the credits roll silently.
Stunned viewers, many initially believing something had gone wrong with their cable TV reception, were left wondering whether Tony ended up “whacked” or whether his sordid life went on as usual.
The jarring, fill-in-the-blank finale, concluding a show widely hailed as America’s greatest television drama, sparked a furious debate about whether Chase had conceived of an actual ending and whether he left the audience any clues.
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Slide show

‘Sopranos’ family album
From Adriana to Ralphie, the friendly and not-so-friendly faces that surrounded Tony and crew.

The biggest hint, according to a consensus taking shape on the Web, is a scene from an earlier episode in which Tony and his brother-in-law, Bobby Bacala, muse about what it feels like to die.
“At the end, you probably don’t hear anything, everything just goes black,” Bobby says while they sit fishing in a small boat on a lake.
That scene is recalled briefly in a flashback played at the end of the penultimate “Sopranos” episode, as Tony is lying in the darkened room of a safehouse clutching a machine gun to his chest in the midst of a mob war.


“I think that is one of the most legitimate things to look at,” Schaffer said when asked about theories that the Bobby Bacala flashback was meant to foreshadow Tony’s death.
Moreover, he said the man in the “Members Only” jacket could be interpreted as a symbolic reference to membership in the mob. “Members Only” also was the title of the episode in which Tony’s demented Uncle Junior shoots him in the gut.
The “Members Only” guy was played by the owner of a real-life pizza parlor, Paolo Colandrea. Schaffer denied reports that Colandrea had appeared earlier in the series as the nephew of Tony’s New York gang rival, or that there ever was such a character. He also dismissed reports that Chase had filmed more than one ending to the finale.
 
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