Sopranos Episode Two Discussion ** SPOILERS INSIDE!

[Danny White]

I don't know how many of us could have seen this coming...

One episode into this season, and they have effectively killed Tony off!!! I was shocked they've made him be in such bad shape. It's difficult to imagine his character having any impact this year... other than his emotional influence on the other characters.

It was also interesting that through his coma-dream, he was taking on a different character altogether. I couldn't really figure out the symbolism of most of those scenes. There were certainly elements of desperation, feeling isolated and alone.

It was a very emotionally-powerful episode... but was a little boring as well. It looks as if in future episodes, they'll be getting more into the traditional drama that we've come to know for the Sopranos, minus Tony's involvement though, apparently.

So does this really mean this is the last season? Why the need to effectively write him out of the script so early?

Will AJ, with his promise to Tony and his dropping out of school, now move into his father's life?

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

Something to consider.

His other character, coma character, is a salesman and if you listen when he is talking on the phone I don't think that it is carmella or meadow talking on the phone, it sounds like different voices.

Also found it odd that the guy made a joke about lexus and infinity due to the kevin finnety name. Then we have monks visiting the guy.

So I am thinking as his character is a salesman that this is him dreaming about what life might have been like if he had finished college and never got into the family business.

Also something that caught my interest.

Chrissy talks to the Feds again and they are talking about terrorists, chrissy says that they have nothing to do with them, the feds say to give them a call if they hear anything.
Then later in the show we see two guys in the bada bing that are of middle eastern heritage.
I just wonder if somewhere down the line chrissy turns those guys into the feds.

Just found it odd.

As for AJ, he flunked out of college and is contemplating killing Junior, he has had fainting spells in a past season. Is he finally coming out of his un tony like phase and starting to enter a phase where he is more like his dad.

 

[Gaede]

One of the best episodes I think I've seen.

Definitely looks like Tony's in purgatory...

I don't see him surviving

 

[Gaede]

I tend not to read too much into dreams (ie-this means this and that means that)

I took the bottomline to be what Tony said himself; "Who am I?" "Where am I going?" I think this confusion is reflective of what we've seen out of Tony throughout the entire series--only now it's time to deal with it.

His coma-dreams were entirely different than regular Tony dreams--they were linear and lacked the cartoonish quality of what we usually see. That's why I think it's something more significant than another dream...The general melancholy of this episode, I think, indicates that Tony's world is falling apart forever.

 

[TruBlueCowboy]

Must..... resist.....temptation.....to read thread....before watching.....it.....on TiVo..... :donthear:

 

[Danny White]

One of the best episodes I think I've seen.

Definitely looks like Tony's in purgatory...

I don't see him surviving

This brings me back to the beginning of episode one, and the "Seven Souls" speech. It now seems incredibly relevant. The speech talks about the order in which our souls leave as we die. As the season goes on, could we be witnessing in Tony's dreams his souls leaving?

Here is the text of that speech:

William Burroughs - The Western Lands
The ancient Egyptians postulated seven souls.

Top soul, and the first to leave at the moment of death, is Ren, the Secret Name. This corresponds to my Director. He directs the film of your life from conception to death. The Secret Name is the title of your film. When you die, that’s where Ren came in.

Second soul, and second one off the sinking ship, is Sekem: Energy, Power, Light. The Director gives the orders, Sekem presses the right buttons.

Number three is Khu, the Guardian Angel. He, she, or it is third man out … depicted as flying away across a full moon, a bird with luminous wings and head of light. Sort of thing you might see on a screen in an Indian restaurant in Panama. The Khu is responsible for the subject and can be injured in his defense-but not permanently, since the first three souls are eternal. They go back to Heaven for another vessel. The four remaining souls must take their chances with the subject in the Land of the Dead.

Number four is Ba, the Heart, often treacherous. This is a hawk’s body with your face on it, shrunk down to the size of a fist. Many a hero has been brought down, like Samson, by a perfidious Ba.

Number five is Ka, the Double, most closely associated with the subject. The Ka, which usually reaches adolescence at the time of bodily death, is the only reliable guide through the Land of the Dead to the Western Lands.

Number six is Khaibit, the Shadow, Memory, your whole past conditioning from this and other lives.

Number seven is Sekhu, the Remains.

 

[Gaede]

This brings me back to the beginning of episode one, and the "Seven Souls" speech. It now seems incredibly relevant. The speech talks about the order in which our souls leave as we die. As the season goes on, could we be witnessing in Tony's dreams his souls leaving?

Yeah, that just clicked with me last night too...I didn't really get it last week, but it certainly seems important now.

That's why I love this episode so much--it just feels like the beginning of the end.

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

One of the best episodes I think I've seen.

Definitely looks like Tony's in purgatory...

I don't see him surviving

Well you had a purgatory thing going in seasons past when Christopher was hurt.

Then you had Carmella saying she told him he would go to hell before but he would not now.

But I keep thinking the monks have some weird tie in to the situation.

 

[Bonecrusher#31]

Maybe Tony Soprano never existed....

Maybe only a 46 year old Saleman with severe brain trouble existed and dreamed up this character Tony Soprano because he secretly always wanted to be someone like that.....:insane:

 

[Danny White]

Maybe Tony Soprano never existed....

Maybe only a 46 year old Saleman with severe brain trouble existed and dreamed up this character Tony Soprano because he secretly always wanted to be someone like that.....:insane:

You just blew my mind!

 

[DallasCowpoke111]

I was at a concert last night so tivo'd last night's ep, then I remembered Comcast has that "On Demand" dealy-bopper. You can watch archived episodes up to something like 4 weeks back.

I think I'm going to save up a week or two, then watch them back-to-back. That way, maybe if they're a little slow, like DW mentioned, you don't feel so left out to dry.

Reading spoilers never really bothers me.

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

I was at a concert last night so tivo'd last night's ep, then I remembered Comcast has that "On Demand" dealy-bopper. You can watch archived episodes up to something like 4 weeks back.

I think I'm going to save up a week or two, then watch them back-to-back. That way, maybe if they're a little slow, like DW mentioned, you don't feel so left out to dry.

Reading spoilers never really bothers me.

I love In Demand.

I do what you talk about with Penn and Tellers show as for whatever reason I always forget when they come on.
I seen they will be starting another season.

 

[SoTex]

Maybe Tony Soprano never existed....

Maybe only a 46 year old Saleman with severe brain trouble existed and dreamed up this character Tony Soprano because he secretly always wanted to be someone like that.....:insane:

Wow...That would be classic. "A Beautiful Mind" like twist.

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

Wow...That would be classic. "A Beautiful Mind" like twist.

Actually if that was what happened or if it was all just a dream I would flat out hate it. It is so cheesy to think that would be how it turned out IMO.

 

[SoTex]

Actually if that was what happened or if it was all just a dream I would flat out hate it. It is so cheesy to think that would be how it turned out IMO.

A "classic" disappointment for you then.

I usually like movies, stories, etc. that have these sort of twists. The Sopranos may not be the best theater for this particular storyline path, but it wouldn't raise my hate meter any. I definitely understand where you're coming from, though.

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

A "classic" disappointment for you then.

I usually like movies, stories, etc. that have these sort of twists. The Sopranos may not be the best theater for this particular storyline path, but it wouldn't raise my hate meter any. I definitely understand where you're coming from, though.

I like twists but those twists seem to have been over done anymore IMO.

 

[Danny White]

I like twists but those twists seem to have been over done anymore IMO.

I don't think I'd like it either... but don't worry, I don't think that's where it's headed.

I think the "Dream Tony" is in purgatory... there are some clear signs of him being pulled in two directions there too. There's a whole lot of symbolism in the dream that I don't quite understand (Finnerty, the monks, his different wife and kids, his alzheimers, etc) but there is some pretty clear imagery as well... the bright light and the fires blazing in the distance (heaven vs. hell), the telephone as a link to either his life or his after-life.

I think this is a dream he'll be exploring for the next episode or two, but then he'll finally come out of it. In the meantime, I think we'll have some good power struggles in the family (both families probably) between Sil, Paulie, Vito and Bobby... and then between Carm and AJ.

I think they have to know they're disappointing some viewers by putting Tony "out of commission" for much of this season... so I have to believe that the "payoff" they have in mind has to be worth it.

Here's hoping!

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

Well you know one thing as a soprano fan over the seasons...there will always be a "dream sequence" epidsode.

Now I am hoping it is not an ongoing thing but if they are going to have the struggle among the capts of who will take over, if they are going to have tony in a coma over some period then they have to do some more of this type of thing.

Part of me would like to see the capts split somehow and then tony come out of the coma to find the ones worthy of keeping and those who need to go.

 

[Danny White]

I think there's going to be a split, and that Vito will come out on top -- for a while.

There have been way too many plot developments with that guy for it to be leading nowhere.

The previews clearly showed Vito hitting on Finn... and that HAS to be leading somewhere as well.

Vito starts moving to the top... Finn spills the beans on Vito... what would happen then?

 

[Gaede]

I think Vito is being set up for a huge fall...The arrogance and homo thing are working against him--it's only a matter of time until the latter catches up to him. We are already seeing that the crew dislikes him...

He also serves as a catalyst for disruption within the family. The writers are moulding him in the shape of Janice--intentionally unlikeable. And Vito's not unlikeable in the Phil Leotardo sense, in that he's a character you can't respect. Because of that, I don't see him lasting long. He may get some status in the next couple episodes, but there's no way he outlasts the mainstays like Chrissy, Paulie and Sil.