Twitter: Spags report Joseph cleared by police

Back in my day, if one person in a car did some heinous illegal thing, everyone in the car at the time got charged with it-- let them sort it out in court.
that only a felony where say a robbery was committed and the person driving as the getaway or say you were Part of it and your partner killed someone, sure you are guilty by association.



BUT NOT if you happen to be hanging out in the back seat and your buddy does a unplanned and sudden crime without your prior knowledge. we discussed this and most said tap the brakes and well hes cleared now egg on the fact fans now say it should have been handled different..nonsnesne..that the way it should be, investigate then make proper arrests'

NOT throw them all in jail and make them fight for their freedom,.

nonsense way of thinking in a society that states in the constitution you are INNOCENT until proven guilty and why should you have to hire lawyer , pay fees, and maybe put on bonds to prove your innocents?
that kind of thinking is what's wrong with the court system now they profit while you fight to prove you innocent instead of investigation before arrests are made..total nonsense
 
If anyone has their head in the sand it’s you because everything you’re saying is wrong! Murder investigations can take years. It can take a lot of time to determine if someone was linked to a murder. Murder charges have been handed down years after the crime took place, because you need evidence to get an indictment. You’re obviously not clued up on this subject.

lol.

Yeah, that's why they have a show dubbed "The First 48" or something like that.

I'm not saying that there aren't investigations that take a long time. It happens. But not in a case where there's video, and when someone in the video has a gold chain with YKDV which clearly identifies them. Investigations that take a long time usually involve a lot of scientific evidence, extensive investigating, or discovering clues that weren't there when an investigation began, or some kind of procedural parameter, i.e., violating rights of a minor or some other civil rights parameter.

Their investigation began with them going to the media claiming they didn't know who the suspect was, and were reaching out to the public to ask for help. No doubt they knew who the gold chain with YKDV dangling from it belonged to? Unless you think the detectives aren't smart enough to search Google.

If you know how police actually operate rather than thinking you know based on what they say to the media, and testi-lie in court about, then you can logically deduce that the reason they went to the media to ask for help "identifying" the person in the video, was because they had KJ's lines tapped, and were monitoring him and the others to see how they reacted to the news of the Ray's death.

You would have to be a really stupid detective to never google YKDV, which would lead you directly to Kelvin Joseph, and you could verify his identity as well.

The Supreme Court ruled police departments can exclude hiring anyone with a high IQ, but that doesn't mean all of them are completely stupid either. This investigation wasn't rocket science.

Think what you want. I'm not going to fight with your cognitive dissonance. I'm just saying that it wasn't difficult to figure out he wasn't considered a suspect in this crime. That was apparent based on the details of the case — to some of us, at least. I work with a former captain of a department, and I work in this topic, so I know what I'm saying, which I said all along he wasn't going to be charged. Four months later, some of you will only now agree.

You're right about one thing: some investigations take decades, and there is no statute of limitations on murder. But that doesn't mean most investigations like this take that long. Not when there's that much evidence on video, and video is considered to be good evidence.

I have no idea what the league will do, but logic would say likely not much since he wasn't arrested. But I'm less sure about that than I was about KJ being cleared, admittedly.

My question to the league would be why they'd suspend him over something when the police cleared him?

If it was such a crime to not say anything (people have a Constitutional right to remain silent), then he would have been charged. If the league goes after him, it'll be an attack on free speech, or freedom of non-speech, which would ultimately not bode well for them.
 
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Many, many, many CZers didn't wait.
They immediately weighed in, pontificated, gave their 2 cents- to a hundred dollars worth of knowlege, history legalese, strategies, outcomes, and predictions when the story surfaced four months ago in April.
Im glad Joseph has been cleared, but still now remains the concern on rather or not Goodell imposes a suspension.
Zeke got his off of allegations that were proven to be false.
This secondary could certainly use Joseph and I hope he gets lucky with no suspension, but I just dont see it happening.
 
Any way you slice it he was stupid to be in the car with a bunch of gang banging punks that have guns.

HE could have ruined his career and his life.
Being young with a pocket full of money and bad old friends, isnt the best situation to be involved in, hope he learns now how easy it is to get caught up.
 
Back in my day, if one person in a car did some heinous illegal thing, everyone in the car at the time got charged with it-- let them sort it out in court.

I am not sure what day that was but law enforcement has been making deals for guys just like Joseph to get them to rat out the real bad guys for many years. Sammy "the Bull" Gravano killed 19 people but walked because he ratted on The Dapper Don, John Gotti. Now it just depends on Joseph's story. Sounds like he was not part of a conspiracy to shoot the victim and he may not have even known the guy was armed. I would find it hard to believe Joseph would be suspended before Deshaun Watson and that case has been going on forever.
 
lol.

Yeah, that's why they have a show dubbed "The First 48" or something like that.

I'm not saying that there aren't investigations that take a long time. It happens. But not in a case where there's video, and when someone in the video has a gold chain with YKDV which clearly identifies them. Investigations that take a long time usually involve a lot of scientific evidence, extensive investigating, or discovering clues that weren't there when an investigation began, or some kind of procedural parameter, i.e., violating rights of a minor or some other civil rights parameter.

Their investigation began with them going to the media claiming they didn't know who the suspect was, and were reaching out to the public to ask for help. No doubt they knew who the gold chain with YKDV dangling from it belonged to? Unless you think the detectives aren't smart enough to search Google.

If you know how police actually operate rather than thinking you know based on what they say to the media, and testi-lie in court about, then you can logically deduce that the reason they went to the media to ask for help "identifying" the person in the video, was because they had KJ's lines tapped, and were monitoring him and the others to see how they reacted to the news of the Ray's death.

You would have to be a really stupid detective to never google YKDV, which would lead you directly to Kelvin Joseph, and you could verify his identity as well.

The Supreme Court ruled police departments can exclude hiring anyone with a high IQ, but that doesn't mean all of them are completely stupid either. This investigation wasn't rocket science.

Think what you want. I'm not going to fight with your cognitive dissonance. I'm just saying that it wasn't difficult to figure out he wasn't considered a suspect in this crime. That was apparent based on the details of the case — to some of us, at least. I work with a former captain of a department, and I work in this topic, so I know what I'm saying, which I said all along he wasn't going to be charged. Four months later, some of you will only now agree.

You're right about one thing: some investigations take decades, and there is no statute of limitations on murder. But that doesn't mean most investigations like this take that long. Not when there's that much evidence on video, and video is considered to be good evidence.

I have no idea what the league will do, but logic would say likely not much since he wasn't arrested. But I'm less sure about that than I was about KJ being cleared, admittedly.

My question to the league would be why they'd suspend him over something when the police cleared him?

If it was such a crime to not say anything (people have a Constitutional right to remain silent), then he would have been charged. If the league goes after him, it'll be an attack on free speech, or freedom of non-speech, which would ultimately not bode well for them.

You wasted your time with all that I didn’t read a word of it!
 
lol what? he was there, he was a witness, he didn’t report until forced to. not being criminally involved has zero bearing on the (lack of) character displayed

Some of you have so much confirmation bias that you're not reasoning through this. Lots of Dunning-Kruger effect going on here, too.

Think about the first thing the police say to you when they read you your Miranda rights if you're arrested.

"You have the right to remain silent."

Whether you want it to be or not (you cannot derive an ought from an is), not saying anything isn't criminal. It's a First Amendment-protected right. He has a right to not incriminate himself.

I know what you'll say. If he was innocent, he should have no problem talking to police. That's how innocent people end up in prison.
 
Personal conduct, other’s have been suspended for less. but this is the court of the NFL, he was involved in the fight and in the vehicle, he knew what his homies were, it’s called guilt by association but that all the NFL needs.
What personal conduct policy did he violate. I did not know that snitching violates the code of conduct. I think the league will get him for something but I am interested in seeing how they get him when he was the only witness that the league will actually interview.
 
I despise this player for what he has done to this board. It's a travesty that a player who has literally done nothing would turn poster against poster. May he suffer from an incurable case of jock itch.
 
"You have the right to remain silent."

Whether you want it to be or not (you cannot derive an ought from an is), not saying anything isn't criminal. It's a First Amendment-protected right. He has a right to not incriminate himself.
.

The freedom from self-incrimination is in the fifth amendment.
 
Some of you have so much confirmation bias that you're not reasoning through this. Lots of Dunning-Kruger effect going on here, too.

Think about the first thing the police say to you when they read you your Miranda rights if you're arrested.

"You have the right to remain silent."

Whether you want it to be or not (you cannot derive an ought from an is), not saying anything isn't criminal. It's a First Amendment-protected right. He has a right to not incriminate himself.

I know what you'll say. If he was innocent, he should have no problem talking to police. That's how innocent people end up in prison.
BS.

Quit making excuses for Joseph. You sound dumber the more you excuse.

Joseph clearly would still be silent today and going on with his thug life IF he hadn't been identified a month later by police. Think about that before you come up with more excuses and sound even more ignorant.
 
The freedom from self-incrimination is in the fifth amendment.

Correct.

Both, actually. More than one argue in favor of what I'm saying.

But nobody is considering that even league punishment would equate to the league telling players they don't have the same legal rights and Constitutional protections when they become players. And I ultimately don't think that argument holds water in the end, when all is said and done.

The below article is not me, but it's written by a legal scholar. I only know this stuff because I work with attorneys and officers and have become good friends over time, so we talk a lot since most people don't really enjoy this stuff.

======

I am a legal scholar, so when I learned that the Supreme Court will decide two right-to-silence cases this term the Maynard case came to mind.

The Maynard decision was not the first time the court ruled in favor of a Jehovah’s Witness’ right to be silent. Both decisions hinge on the justices’ determination that the First Amendment includes, in the court’s words, the right “to avoid becoming a ‘mobile billboard’ for the State’s ideological message.”

It may sound contradictory to say the right to be silent flows from the right to speak, but it is not.

The First Amendment protects a person’s right to convey his own message, to voice her own ideas and not to be compelled to publicly disclose personal beliefs and associations. When the government tries to compel a person to speak its message, these rights are seriously damaged.

The right to free speech is likewise violated when people are required to associate themselves with an idea with which they disagree.

LINK: Supreme Court to rule on your First Amendment right to silence (theconversation.com)
 
Oh, lawd. Believe what you want.

You really think it takes 4 months to investigate anything? Police say they're investigating for months, usually when it involves an officer, so they can placate the public. Or in cases like murder.

You honestly think it took 4 months for them to determine whether Joseph committed a crime?

If you honestly believe that, you may have your head in the sand. You probably also think it actually takes years to investigate officers for disciplinary actions too.

That’s what I thought. You can shut your trap now.
 
Im glad Joseph has been cleared, but still now remains the concern on rather or not Goodell imposes a suspension.
Zeke got his off of allegations that were proven to be false.
This secondary could certainly use Joseph and I hope he gets lucky with no suspension, but I just dont see it happening.
While under the league's investigation, Elliott continually got caught up in behavior and circumstances that reflected badly on him. Whether those incidents should have / did play a part in him being suspended...he provided the commissioner some ammunition (along with Jones' beef with the NFL if I recall) to not rule in his favor --no matter how wrong most Cowboys fans\ NFL world thought of the decision.
If I was Jones - I would approach Goodell to expedite the process of the personal conduct investigation, since it appears the Dallas legal system has determined what Joseph's role in the matter was.
 
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BS.

Quit making excuses for Joseph. You sound dumber the more you excuse.

Joseph clearly would still be silent today and going on with his thug life IF he hadn't been identified a month later by police. Think about that before you come up with more excuses and sound even more ignorant.

Thanks.

The irony here is that you've displayed the most extreme levels of Dunning-Kruger since this began.

It'd be nice if you let some of us who don't have our minds made up about the wrong things have an actual discussion.

You've already demonstrated you can't sit at the adults' table to discuss this topic.

It's OK. I don't know anything about a lot in the world. The difference is I also don't pretend that projecting my moral compass onto others is a substitute for true knowledge.
 
They are using him as a witness. That's the only reason he was cleared. They believed him when he said he wasn't involved, and are using him as a witness. He will be Bossman snitch by the time this is all said and done. and he has no choice in the matter.

We were talking about Zeke
 

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